Rose of Red Lake Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 hours ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Even the society we live in doesn’t have a true democracy Westeros is not advanced enough to have any form of democracy. Even if we don’t like it in a medieval setting society monarchy is the only possible system. In any case a King who sees his title as a responsibility and not as a right will do his best because it’s his duty and not his personal vanity project. The understanding that the King has to always put his people over his personal desires, his people’s lives before himself can take a great toll on him. The closest ruler, in my opinion, that we have in the books and novellas who seems to be a good ruler and a decent human being is Bloodraven. Yeah, definitely not ready for democracy yet - it would be quite scary. Smallfolk need literacy, less heated religiosity, guild power, more critical thinking skills about power (they cheer anyone who appeals to them). Bloodraven though? I dont know...may be a mixed bag. He may be a better "mentor." And I use that term loosely. Like, Littlefinger has some good lessons for Sansa. the Kindly Man offers some good tempering advice for Arya. But Bran, Arya, Sansa need to figure things out on their own because these are deeply flawed individuals to learn from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Lord of Blackhaven said: She's all alone in the Dothraki Sea (except for Drogon) and it will be time for her to stand on her own. I look forward to seeing how she does! How its going so far: "Try again, she told herself. You will do better the next time. You are the blood of the dragon, you can make a hat. She tried and tried, but her last attempt had been no more successful than her first." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 14 hours ago, Lord of Blackhaven said: To a certain degree, except for the entitlement part. Dany thinks she deserves to rule because of her last name and who her parents were. She never sees ruling as something to be earned, just a birthright that should be granted to her. She's also been pretty well looked after her entire life. When has she ever had to fend for herself? She's always had servants and retainers seeing to her every need. She's always had a support system. Even when her brother was bullying and harassing her as they wandered through the Free Cities, or even after being sold to Khal Drogo she was still fairly pampered. Maybe she'll get a dose of self-reliance in the next book. She's all alone in the Dothraki Sea (except for Drogon) and it will be time for her to stand on her own. I look forward to seeing how she does! Sure she feels entitled, she is after all the heiress to a great house. But she also feels like "a queen belongs to her people" and she repeatedly sacrifices her wants and desires to do what she think is right to help her people (whether it is marrying Hizadair, putting her off her invasion of Westeros. etc). IAs far as her upbringing, I would argue she had worst off in Jon in many ways as atleast Jon had a stable home and didn't have to roam from city o city begging people for help to restore their rights. Jon grew up in castl witha family (minus Cat) that loved him and staffed with servants, educated by a maester, trained to fight by a skilled man at arms and I doubt that he ever went one day for a lack of food or comfort. So yeah I'd say Dany and Viserys had to fend for themselves a hell of a lot more than Jon Snow ever did growing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, El Guapo said: Sure she feels entitled, she is after all the heiress to a great house. But she also feels like "a queen belongs to her people" and she repeatedly sacrifices her wants and desires to do what she think is right to help her people (whether it is marrying Hizadair, putting her off her invasion of Westeros. etc). IAs far as her upbringing, I would argue she had worst off in Jon in many ways as atleast Jon had a stable home and didn't have to roam from city o city begging people for help to restore their rights. Jon grew up in castl witha family (minus Cat) that loved him and staffed with servants, educated by a maester, trained to fight by a skilled man at arms and I doubt that he ever went one day for a lack of food or comfort. So yeah I'd say Dany and Viserys had to fend for themselves a hell of a lot more than Jon Snow ever did growing up. And Jon is very entitled as well. I mean, he does well in the Night's Watch first because he's had a castle education, and then gets to lord commander because he's Ned's son and Benjen's nephew. Dany, sure, had the help of dragons, but she mostly didn't use them and conquered three cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 38 minutes ago, CamiloRP said: and then gets to lord commander because he's Ned's son and Benjen's nephew. Not really. He gets lord commander because: - He distinguished himself at the Battle of Castle Black, at one point commanding the Wall - He proves himself a decent leader - He has history in the Nights Watch, unlike Janos - Both Cotter and Denys like him enough for him to work as a compromise candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Not really. He gets lord commander because: - He distinguished himself at the Battle of Castle Black, at one point commanding the Wall - He proves himself a decent leader - He has history in the Nights Watch, unlike Janos - Both Cotter and Denys like him enough for him to work as a compromise candidate. Well, Mallister liked him because he was lordly, and Pyke liked him because he was a good fighter and young, the good fighter part is due to him being raised in a castle, with a master at arms. Then Yarwyck endorses Jon and he says his qualities are, being the nephew of Benjen and being the squire of Mormont (something he partially got out of his own ability, but partially got due to his father.) He commanded the Wall because he was the only one fit to do so, why is that? His privilege as a lord's son. And let's not forget Sam's meddling and the magic raven factor. This doesn't make Jon a bad guy, no, but he's largely more privileged than Dany, and the Watch, tho it posses itself as an 'equal opportunity' institution, it's not, tho Jon tries to change that, by having Satin as his squire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just now, CamiloRP said: He commanded the Wall because he was the only one fit to do so, why is that? His privilege as a lord's son. Never said otherwise, I agree him having a castle education is key. I was just saying that him being a Stark is not that relevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamiloRP Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 6 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said: Never said otherwise, I agree him having a castle education is key. I was just saying that him being a Stark is not that relevant But it was, him being the son of a lord and the nephew of Benjen was important to a lot of his voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 10/16/2020 at 5:33 AM, Damsel in Distress said: The only people who will accept Jon Snow are the Wildlings. There won't be any king of Westeros in the end. But there will be a monarch who will rule in the end. Queen Daenerys Targaryen. It's possible for the north to become ruled by the wildlings for a very short time until the Others arrive and they all get turned to wights. Jon will have his moment to lead an army of wighted wildlings. Dany and Drogon will melt him and his army of ice on the Trident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted January 31, 2021 Author Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said: It's possible for the north to become ruled by the wildlings for a very short time until the Others arrive and they all get turned to wights. Jon will have his moment to lead an army of wighted wildlings. Dany and Drogon will melt him and his army of ice on the Trident. Of course. I mean there's so much evidence for what you say like... and... Really, to quote @Lilac & Gooseberries, "prove it." Please, I am curious for one bit of textual evidence for what you just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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