Targaryen Scorecard

[Megorova]

50 minutes ago, Groo said:

Wait. The Starks are Targaryens?

Yes, partially.

Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna as the mother of his third child, because after Elia Martell, Lyanna was the most suitable candidate - Elia was 1/16 Targaryen, and Lyanna was 1/32.

Besides Lyanna there was Catelyn Tully (whose mother was a Whent - a descendant of Aegon IV's bastard) - who was already engaged; Wynafrei - the original Queen of Love and Beauty at Harrenhall's tournament held in 281 AC, though she already got married by that point; and Lysa Tully, who recently had an abortion and thus was an unsuitable for what Rhaegar needed - a healthy breeder to bear for him the third head of the Dragon, in addition to his Rhaenys and Aegon.

Rickard Stark fostered his son together with Robert Baratheon, and was intending to marry Lyanna to Robert, because they were cousins (3rd & 4th cousins).

Jaehaerys + Shaera <- siblings -> Rhaelle + Ormund Baratheon.

Aerys + Rhaella <- first cousins -> Steffon Baratheon + Cassana Estermond.

Rhaegar <- second cousins -> Robert.

~~~

Blackwood-husband + Mya Rivers <- half-siblings -> Daeron II Targaryen.

Willam Stark + Melantha Blackwood & Betha <- first cousins -> Maekar.

Edwyle Stark <- second cousins thru Targaryen-line-> Egg + Betha.

Melantha <- siblings -> Betha.

Edwyle Stark <- first cousins thru Blackwood-line, thru their mothers -> Jaehaerys, Shaera, Rhaelle.

Rickard <- second cousins thru Blackwood-line and at the same time third cousins thru Targaryen-line -> Aerys + Rhaella; Steffon Baratheon.

Lyanna, Ned <- third cousins thru Blackwood-line and fourth cousins thru Targaryen-line -> Rhaegar; Robert and his siblings.

~~~

Brandon and Ned Starks were also bloodrelated to Catelyn Tully and her siblings.

The founder of House Whent, the Bastard of Harrenhal, was a secret child of Aegon IV and his own daughter - Jeyne Lothston.

Aegon IV + Falena Stokeworth = Jeyne Lothston.

Aegon IV + Jeyne = Bastard of Harrenhal, founder of House Whent, grandfather of Shella Whent, father of Petyr Baelish' great-grandfather who was a sellsword from Braavos.

Bastard-Whent/Shella's grandfather <- half-siblings -> Mya Rivers.

Shella Whent's father and his siblings <- first cousins -> Melantha and Betha Blackwood.

Shella, Minisa, Oswell, etc. <- second cousins -> Edwyle Stark.

Catelyn Tully <- third cousins -> Rickard Stark.

Catelyn <- third cousins once removed -> Brandon, Ned.

~~~

Bastard-Whent/Shella's grandfather + a granddaughter of Bellegere Otherys and Aegon IV = a sellsword from Braavos.

Bastard-Whent/Shella's grandfather + a wife from Westeros = the second Lord Whent/Shella's father.

Shella Whent's father and his siblings <- first cousins -> a hedge knight.

Shella, Minisa, Oswell, etc. <- second cousins -> first Lord Baelish.

Catelyn, Lysa, Edmure <- third cousins -> Petyr Baelish.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

 - - -

[Seams]

Don't forget the old tom cat in the Red Keep. Supposed to be the grown-up kitten, Balerion, that belonged to Princess Rhaenys.

 

[Groo]

20 minutes ago, Seams said:

Don't forget the old tom cat in the Red Keep. Supposed to be the grown-up kitten, Balerion, that belonged to Princess Rhaenys.

 

Blood and fire. I can see a cat being down for blood. Fire, not so much. We'll add the old tom cat to the scorecard but he gets an asterisk.

[Groo]

5 hours ago, Megorova said:

Now explanation about Lyanna being partially Targaryen:

Melissa Blackwood was one of Aegon IV's mistresses, and she gave birth to three of his bastards - Bloodraven, Gwenys and Mya Rivers. In my opinion, Melissa's mother was Maryah Stark - a daughter of Cregan Stark and Alysanne Blackwood. So Cregan Stark was Melissa's grandfather, and he didn't wanted her to be a mistress, thus he had challenged Aegon to a duel, with a demand to end their relationship, if he will win. Though because Aegon was a royalty, he had a sworn shield - his brother, Aemond the Dragonknight. That's why there's a story that Cregan Stark once had fought with the Dragonknight. Obviously he won, despite being much older than Aemond, and then Aegon broke up with Melissa. One of Melissa's daughters - Mya Rivers, married with her cousin - a Blackwood, and their daughters were Melantha and Betha Blackwood. Betha married with Egg (Aegon V), and her sister Melantha married with Willam Stark, whose younger sister Alysanne (Old Nan) was Duncan the Tall's paramour. Like this:

Alysanne Blackwood + Cregan Stark = Maryah Stark + Blackwood-husband = Melissa Blackwood + Aegon IV Targaryen = Mya Rivers + Blackwood-husband = Melantha Blackwood + Willam Stark = Edwyle Stark + Marna Locke = Rickard Stark + Lyarra = Brandon, Eddard, Lyanna, Benjen <- Aegon the Unworthy's 3-times-great-grandchildren and 1/32 Targaryens by blood.

OK, I'll bite. Your lengthy explanation of Lyanna being Targaryen can be streamlined significantly. Lyanna's great-grandmother was Melantha Blackwood (that's right in the Stark family tree in the book). Mya Rivers was one of Aegon IV's bastard children (that's from the World of Ice and Fire). Your contention is that Mya Rivers was Melantha Blackwood's mother. Where did you get that? There's nothing in any of the books about Melantha. We don't know who her parents were, if she had siblings, etc. There's also nothing about Mya. We don't know if she married or had any kids.

[Jaenara Belarys]

8 hours ago, Megorova said:

Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna as the mother of his third child, because after Elia Martell, Lyanna was the most suitable candidate - Elia was 1/16 Targaryen, and Lyanna was 1/32.

 

It could've also been because of the connection of fire (Elia) and ice (Lyanna). 

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

Mayhaps…

Aerys II is now Tywin and His twin brother Illyn Payne was once Tywin.

The only legitimate son of Aegon the conqueror was Maegor.

[Megorova]

21 hours ago, Groo said:

Your contention is that Mya Rivers was Melantha Blackwood's mother. Where did you get that? There's nothing in any of the books about Melantha. We don't know who her parents were, if she had siblings, etc. There's also nothing about Mya. We don't know if she married or had any kids.

I recommend you to read one of my threads, this one -

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/159013-swan-song-part-116-the-missing-pieces-ptsd/

I explained there how I make my theories, by using invented by me method "Missing Pieces + PTSD", where P - patterns, T - trinities, S - symbols, D - deduction.

In my opinion GRRM in his writing is using patterns, trinities and symbols. So by locating them we can figure out what parts of the plot GRRM has left out of the books, and will reveal later.

I noticed here a pattern (look at the family tree):

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bellegere_Otherys#Family

Bellegere - Bellenora - Bellonara - Bellegere.

Four Pearls of Braavos, mothers and daughters with similar names.

I also noticed numerous other paterns all over the ASOIAF's books. For example - mother and daughter - Chataya and Alayaya; Samarro Saan and his descendant - Salladhor Saan; the exiled Princes from the Summer Isles - Xhobar Qhoqua and one of Robert's courtiers - Jalabhar Xho; all those Brans, Bens and Lyas on the Stark family tree; etc.

And this is also a pattern:

Maryah Stark (a Blackwood's daughter) - Melissa Blackwood - Mya Rivers - Melantha Blackwood (a Stark's wife).

Maryah is Mya, and Melissa is Mel, so we have here:

Mya - Mel - Mya - Mel - pattern.

Mya is Mel's mother, and then Mel has a Mya-daughter, and then that Mya has a Mel-daughter. It's the same kind of thing as with all those Bells (Black Pearls) from the link above.

Also - the timing fits, and it makes sense - if Betha and Melantha Blackwoods were Aegon IV's granddaughters and Bloodraven's nieces, then it's fitting that Egg married with Betha, who was his first cousin once removed. King Maekar allowed his vagabond-son to marry with a Blackwood-girl, because she wasn't an outsider, she was a close relative of the Targaryens. Also, if Melantha Blackwood was Cregan Stark's 2-times-great-grandchild, then it seems fitting that she has married with Willam Stark, who also was Cregan Stark's 2-times-great-grandchild thru Lorra Royce (Cregan - (in my opinion his daughter) Sarra + (married with a) Royce - their daughter was Lorra Royce, who married with Beron Stark - and their son was Willam, who had married with Melantha Blackwood. So Willam is Cregan's 2-times-great-grandchild thru Cregan's daughter Sarra (Sarra - Lorra, it's a part of the pattern), and also Willam is Cregan's great-grandchild thru Cregan's son Brandon (the father of Beron, who was Willam's father).

Look at the Stark family tree - on the part with Cregan's four Blackwood-daughters - GRRM left that part of the family tree blank. Though, using those other patterns with Belles and Saans, I sort of filled in the missing parts.

Thus in my opinion Cregan's four daughters married with these people and had these descendants:

1. Sarra + Royce-husband = their daughter Lorra Royce + Beron Stark = Willam Stark + Melantha Blackwood.

2. Alys + Karstark-husband = (probably Alys Stark died while giving birth to a daughter, that's why that daughter also was named Alys) Alys Karstark + Brandon (Cregan's 10th and youngest child) = Beron Stark + Lorra Royce.

To Brandon Stark his wife Alys Karstark aslo was his niece. Two of Brandon's older brothers - Jonnel and Edric, also married with their nieces - Sansa and Serena, daughters of Cregan's oldest son - Rickon Stark (it's on the family tree, I'm not making this up). So there were three Stark-brothers in the same generation, who had married with their nieces, and GRRM likes to insert trinities into his books.

3. Raya + Flint-husband = a son + wife = Arya Flint + Rodrik Stark (Willam's youngest brother).

Raya - Arya - a pattern, same as Sarra and Lorra.

4. Mariah Stark (or Maryah, because GRRM thru the books changed how he wrote Myriah Martell's name, so we don't know which is right, whether the name of Cregan's daughter also will be changed from Mariah to Myriah) + Blackwood-husband = Melissa Blackwood + Aegon IV Targaryen = Mya Rivers + Blackwood-husband = Melantha Blackwood + Willam Stark.

21 hours ago, Groo said:

Your contention is that Mya Rivers was Melantha Blackwood's mother.

The timing fits.

We know when approximately were born Cregan Stark's 10 children.

From So Spake Martin it is known that when Dunk and Egg arrived to Winterfell in 211 AC, Beron Stark was dying from being wounded in the battle against Ironborn. All of his children by that time were already born, and his oldest were teenagers. After Beron's death his firstborn son - Donnor, became his successor. And later Donnor was suceeded by his brother Willam. That's because Donnor died young, when he was still unmarried and had no children.

When Dunk arrived to Winterfell, occurred that scene in which Bran saw a knight as tall as Hodor kissing a brown-haired girl. In my opinion, that knight was Dunk and the girl was Donnor and Willam's sister - Alysanne Stark, Old Nan - Hodor's great-grandmother (so Hodor is Dunk's descendant). In that vision she was referred to as a girl, so she was less than 16 years old. I think that at the time of Dunk's arrival to Winterfell, Alysanne was the same age as Dunk was in The Hedge Knight novel, when he was introduced to the readers - 14 turning 15. GRRM inserts a lot of parallels into his books. Dunk was born in 194, and thus Alysanne was born in 196. Alysanne was Beron's fifth child, and Willam was the second, so between them was at least 3 years of age difference. So Willam was born approximately in 193, and in 211 he was ~17 turning 18.

Mya Rivers was born in 172 or 173.

If she got married and had children when she was 16+, in and past 188-189, and if Melantha was the older out of Blackwood-sisters, then she was approximately 4-5 years younger than her husband Willam Stark.

Based on Mya's age, and the approximations of what we know about Willam's age, it is possible that Willam's wife - Melantha Blackwood, was Mya's daughter. Also it seems fitting if Egg formed friendship with the Starks during his first visit there, and during his later visits, when Willam has already married a second time, thru Melantha Egg met her younger sister - Betha, with whom he then married.

So I don't have concrete evidences, I'm just drawing parallels and patterns based on what else GRRM wrote. It is a fact that the Starks were favouring marriages with their close relatives - Cregan's third wife was a Stark, Ned's parents both were Starks (cousins), it's a fact that two of Cregan's sons married with their nieces. So based on the marriage preferences of the Starks and Mya-Mel-pattern, I made conclusion that Melantha Blackwood was her husband's blood-relative and that she was Myriah Stark's descendant. Makes sense, no?

Also it makes sense if Egg married with Betha because (one of the reasons) as his blood-relative, she was a suitable marriage partner for him. And she could have been his relative, if she was Mya River's daughter.

The part with Melantha marrying her Stark-relative makes sense, and the part about Egg marrying his Targaryen-(bastard)-relative also makes sense <- those two parts each on their own. Though why did I connected those two parts together - what made me think that Betha and Melantha were sisters and not just some sort of other relatives, like cousins or whatever?

I'm sure that not only Betha was a Targaryen by blood, but Melantha too. I'm 100% sure that Melantha was a dragonseed, same as Betha. That's because Melantha was a carrier of skinchanging genes from Aegon IV's mother - Larra Rogare. In my opinion the passage of the skinchanging genes between parents and children works similar to the passage of the red hair alleles - for a child to be a skinchanger, either one of the parents has to be a skinchanger, or both of the parents have to be recessive carriers. These couples were all descendants of Larra Rogare, and they were recessive carriers of the skinchanging genes, and thus their children were skinchangers - Ned Stark (partially Targaryen thru Melantha Blackwood) and Catelyn Tully (her ancestor - the Bastard of Harenhal and the founder of House Whent, was Aegon IV's son), Rhaegar and Lyanna, Rhaegar and Elia (she was Larra Rogare's descendant thru Aegon IV's daughter - Daenerys Targaryen), Petyr Baelish (his great-grandfather - the sellsword from Braavos was a son of the Bastard of Harrenhal and one of Bellegere Otherys' granddaughters) and Lysa Tully. Thus these characters are skinchangers because of their parents - Jon Snow, Rhaenys Targaryen (Balerion the cat was her vessel), Robert Arryn, Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rickon. Larra Rogare was a daughter of Johanna Swann, and in my opinion House Swann was founded by the son of Azor Ahai and his fifth wife - a tiger-woman, the widow of Azor's uncle - the Bloodstone Emperor.

In my signature there's a link to Swan Song part 1, in the end of the Opening Post of that thread there are links to the other parts of the Swan Song. In Part 2 I explained about Johanna Swann being Larra Rogare's mother, in Part 3 I explained about Larra Rogare being a cat-skinchanger, in Part 7 and 15 I explained how Petyr Baelish and Catelyn Tully are Aegon IV's descendants, in Part 16 I explained about Azor Ahai and the skinchanging genes. So you should read that first, to get a better understanding of what I'm writing about.