Does Anyone Else find Everything East of the Free Cities a bit odd?

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

I mean in Vaes Dothrak there's plenty of slaves for work, so all the khallasar has to do is chill and star gaze, until the food runs low again.

They may have slaves able to work steel. But I would not say they possess any kind of technological, metallurgic skills.

[Hugorfonics]

49 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

They may have slaves able to work steel. But I would not say they possess any kind of technological, metallurgic skills.

Probably not, but it's not that complicated (I mean, idk how to do it) but they probably have the skill in facilitating the blacksmiths or at least the administration to keep the markets profitable and with plenty of steel 

[Bowen Marsh]

6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Everything further east than the Free Cities feels weird to me. The whole place feels a bit...flat. Like they all have one or a limited number of defining characteristics and that is the whole character/society. They don't seem as fleshed out compared to Westeros and the Free Cities. Case in point being the Dothraki and the Slaver Cities. When I think for more than a second about it, I come to the conclusion that the whole place couldn't really function. Also it seems to be completely static in terms of social/economic/military advances. Everyone is doing exactly what they were doing a thousand years ago. With the exception of the fall of Valyria and the rise of the Dothraki. And even then the Slaver Cities seem to just be continuing what they've practiced forever. They all still use bronze-age tactics...The whole place honestly feels a bit dreamlike to me.

That's probably bias or preference on your part.  The Dothraki as a people are given in 3D whereas the wildlings are in 2D.  We know about Dothraki customs more than we know the customs of the Westeros north.  Daenerys Targaryen's time with the Dothraki revealed a lot about those people.  We know more about Meereen than we do about any city in Westeros except for King's Landing.  And the Westeros north, yeah, they only have one place that could pass for a city, so no depth there.  We have spent more time in Qarth than any city in Westeros, except for King's Landing.  If you want to pick on Essos, pick on the Free Cities.  We only know very little about them.

Essos is much grander in scale.  A fitting place to showcase the magnificence of Dany's dragons and her great destiny.  There are more varieties shown to us, the reader.  Tyrion's journey only added to the depth and breadth of Essos.  Dany's own travels took us from Pentos, the Dothraki Sea, the Red Waste, Astapor, and onto Meereen.   She traveled by land and by sea.  Texture, yes, there are a lot of texture and nuance in the chapters in Essos. The Westeros north is the place that has little variety, it's the same dreary weather and people who rarely bathe.   I really think it's just bias on your part. 

[Aebram]

7 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

They don't seem as fleshed out compared to Westeros and the Free Cities.

That is as it should be.

The purpose of worldbuilding is to support a story, with characters and plots and themes.  The world is not an end in its own right.  And there are only so many hours in a day, or a career.  I'm sure there are plenty of readers who think that the Martin has spent too much time fleshing out the geography and history of his world, while they wait patiently (or impatiently) for the rest of the actual story.

 

[BalerionTheCat]

7 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Probably not, but it's not that complicated (I mean, idk how to do it)

Good steel is nothing simple. Ask the Qohorik.

7 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

they probably have the skill in facilitating the blacksmiths or at least the administration to keep the markets profitable and with plenty of steel 

If they are lacking something spectacularly, it's the concept of commerce. Their only currency is violence and strength. Yes, they sometime buy, or exchange gifts. But their basis is taking and see if the owner fight back. I don't see them in administration.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

The dothraki have wiped out the sarnori, the omberi and qaathi. The rhoynar were all destroyed by the valyrians. Hence it feels that way. 

[Craving Peaches]

6 hours ago, Aebram said:

That is as it should be.

The purpose of worldbuilding is to support a story, with characters and plots and themes.  The world is not an end in its own right.  And there are only so many hours in a day, or a career.  I'm sure there are plenty of readers who think that the Martin has spent too much time fleshing out the geography and history of his world, while they wait patiently (or impatiently) for the rest of the actual story.

I don't mind that they aren't on the same level of detail as Westeros but even then it feels quite lacking. I mean the Masters are all just evil. Dothraki are all just raiders. There seems to be only the Lhazareen around aside from the Dothraki and Slaver's Bay and Qarth. And the Lhazareen get barely any attention.

[Craving Peaches]

7 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

The Dothraki as a people are given in 3D whereas the wildlings are in 2D.

I think the Dothraki are quite 2D in terms of motivation. All the Dothraki strive to do is raid and pillage. At least the Wildlings have the excuse that they are running from the Others.

7 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

And the Westeros north, yeah, they only have one place that could pass for a city, so no depth there.

The North is arguably more developed than the Dothraki because we have spent more time in the North compared to on the Dothraki sea.

7 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

The Westeros north is the place that has little variety, it's the same dreary weather and people who rarely bathe.

Well given there are hot springs at Winterfell I really doubt that.

[Craving Peaches]

28 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

The dothraki have wiped out the sarnori, the omberi and qaathi. The rhoynar were all destroyed by the valyrians. Hence it feels that way. 

I think this is the issue. Only other settlement aside from Quarth and Slaver's Bay is Lhazar.

[Craving Peaches]

9 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

(Russia, after the fall of Constantinople also said they were the new Rome, which would actually push their middle ages all the way to 1917, when the successors of the tyrant Julius Caesar was finally kicked off his eagle)

This always makes me laugh. Romans were never even in Muscovy. I think the Ottomans were more of the new Rome then Russia, at least they controlled territory that the Romans had.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

The dothraki have wiped out the sarnori, the omberi and qaathi. The rhoynar were all destroyed by the valyrians. Hence it feels that way. 

If i recall the sanori have one more settlement and the qaathi have quarth

 

But yeah it does feel the dothraki have largely stopped expanding, they have settled into a highly profitable rut.

I mentioned on another thread they are now more  like modern drug dealing gangs  fighting each other over highly profitable territory ! Drogo seems to have been moving to upset that balance though.

[astarkchoice]

30 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think this is the issue. Only other settlement aside from Quarth and Slaver's Bay is Lhazar.

That we know of ...itl only be major settlements listed ...there will still be swathes of unfortunate peoples living in small.settlments, towns, villages or individual homesteads  outside the major cities just as in westeros.

 

I mean its only through tyrions pov that we learn there are huge towns some  the size of westerosi cities all miles and miles outside the free cities.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

I don't mind that they aren't on the same level of detail as Westeros but even then it feels quite lacking. I mean the Masters are all just evil. Dothraki are all just raiders. There seems to be only the Lhazareen around aside from the Dothraki and Slaver's Bay and Qarth. And the Lhazareen get barely any attention.

Largely agree here man

The dothraki like most nomads should have a focus on their animals, its the entire point of the nomadic lifestyle!!! Also we know that the bulk of interaction between settled peoples and nomads was peaceful trade.so the dothraki come across as a bit 2d there

 

There not being any mentioned settlements outside the lhazareen isnt too big a deal as there will vast populations outside the major cities just as today. However the main problem with the lhazareen is the fact that despite being subject to constant raids they havent become more martial themselves! It seems daft that any people raided over and over dont learn to fight back! Esp as they are nomads themselves thus would be equaly skilled horsemen

 

The masters being evil  from our perspective sorta fits though ..look at the deep souths treatement of african americans from slavery to even modern times! Or even how modern sweat shop owners treat workers....pure evil but they dont see themselves as such, hell the confederate flag is still flown proudly in some hillbilly places today!!!!

[Craving Peaches]

12 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Largely agree here man

The dothraki like most nomads should have a focus on their animals, its the entire point of the nomadic lifestyle!!! Also we know that the bulk of interaction between settled peoples and nomads was peaceful trade.so the dothraki come across as a bit 2d there

It would be much better if the Dothraki were more like actual Mongols or Manchu or literally any real nomadic people. It would make them more nuanced and add depth and flavour.

13 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

However the main problem with the lhazareen is the fact that despite being subject to constant raids they havent become more martial themselves! It seems daft that any people raided over and over dont learn to fight back! Esp as they are nomads themselves thus would be equaly skilled horsemen

They don't fight back at all and are constantly subject to raids...I'm surprised they still exist given the fate of all other non-Dothraki civilisations in the area.

37 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

That we know of ...itl only be major settlements listed ...there will still be swathes of unfortunate peoples living in small.settlments, towns, villages or individual homesteads  outside the major cities just as in westeros.

 

I mean its only through tyrions pov that we learn there are huge towns some  the size of westerosi cities all miles and miles outside the free cities.

 

14 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

There not being any mentioned settlements outside the lhazareen isnt too big a deal as there will vast populations outside the major cities just as today.

Maybe, but when the Khalasar is travelling through the Dothraki Sea it seems to be pretty empty. Only settlements shown are Vaes Dothraki and Lhazar. All the other ones are in ruins. It's possible there are more but I don't know - it looks like the Dothraki wiped most of them out and I don't think people would be building new villages near the Dothraki if they could help it.

[astarkchoice]

5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

It would be much better if the Dothraki were more like actual Mongols or Manchu or literally any real nomadic people. It would make them more nuanced and add depth and flavour.

They don't fight back at all and are constantly subject to raids...I'm surprised they still exist given the fate of all other non-Dothraki civilisations in the area.

 

Maybe, but when the Khalasar is travelling through the Dothraki Sea it seems to be pretty empty. Only settlements shown are Vaes Dothraki and Lhazar. All the other ones are in ruins. It's possible there are more but I don't know - it looks like the Dothraki wiped most of them out and I don't think people would be building new villages near the Dothraki if they could help it.

Agreed 

They.missed a real sitter with the fact we know they were more than just savages and raiders , in fact we know without nomads many settlements would have starved due to how poor early agriculture was!!!

 

Yeah it makes 0 sense that they can ride and live the same tough life but somehow are lesser fighters

 

The.dothraki sea they have made their own its more likely that near the major cities there will be settlements for miles and miles around! Just as in our history no one will want to live outside the safety of  huge walls but a vast  many will have 0 choice

[Hugorfonics]

7 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

Good steel is nothing simple. Ask the Qohorik.

Vargo? He wasnt a blacksmith either

7 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

If they are lacking something spectacularly, it's the concept of commerce. Their only currency is violence and strength. Yes, they sometime buy, or exchange gifts. But their basis is taking and see if the owner fight back. I don't see them in administration.

They dont have our definition of commerce, true. But I think they have a different definition that we just cant understand, living in our capitalist culture and such. 
They definitely have an idea of ownership though, Silver is Danys, Red was Drogos, Jorah got to pick any horse besides these to claim, so the currency of horses (and probably other things) definitely exists.
In fact, if one were to not care about currency then they wouldn't open and administrate like the largest markets in the world, where peace dictates trade in DK.
Also, theyre all thieves. Wildlings steals women, Ironborn steals diamonds, Lannister steals castles, etc, the basis of asoiaf is taking stuff and seeing if the owner fights back, dothraki arent special in that regard

 

6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

This always makes me laugh. Romans were never even in Muscovy. I think the Ottomans were more of the new Rome then Russia, at least they controlled territory that the Romans had.

 Romans werent in Germany either. The Ottomans have a good case on claiming to be Augustus' successor, but the Czars claim to be Roman as the successor of St. Peter also kinda has merit. 

5 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

It would be much better if the Dothraki were more like actual Mongols or Manchu or literally any real nomadic people.

Theyre practically a carbon copy of the Comanche 

[Bobby B. VIII]

I think a big part of why some of the eastern areas feel "flat" is because the history we are presented is through the eyes of the people of Westeros. Even highly educated people like the maesters know very little about that part of the world so most of it is left to speculation based on the limited information that they do have. I've never viewed it as flat so much as unknown.

[hnv]

The Dothraki remaining travelling people for so long without developing permanent and stable Khaldoms is perplexing. Invading prairie people tend to invade and then settle not invade and go around in circles across the continent. I also highly doubt they could feed such large Khalsars for so long in the Dothraki sea

The Free Cities is a misleading title as they are in fact city states with smaller cities and rural areas around them. Their history is also quite fluid since the fall of Valyria.

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

 Romans werent in Germany either.

Yes they were. Not in all of it but certainly in parts. Cities like Trier, Cologne etc. were all occupied by the Romans.

[The Commentator]

I would not call it odd. Eastern Essos is exotic and exiting. The cultures and people we meet have detailed backgrounds. I was delighted when George promised that the Dothraki will be very prominent in the coming books. I was tired of Westeros before the end of book 1. It’s great to have the focus of the action in the Far East.