Projecting Own Bias on to Characters

[LongRider]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

But everyone thinks different and differently about whatever.

While that may be true, good conversations, analysis and insights can still be had.  Threads with headings such as the ones commonly seen on the boards today, like "Jon Snow likely to go insane' and 'Tully Madness" ect; ect.   Do not even begin to encourage conversations worth having.  We do not all have to agree on the issues, and hearing different opinions given with respect to the other posters, the story and the characters can be had and can be enjoyable.  Now if one even whispers Jon Snow, all of our favorite (sic) trolls jump in with their nonsense and the thread loses momentum.  

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Not you in particular, I have seen many 'underrate' the issue of religion in Westeros because to be fair it wasn't particularly important (from a political standpoint) to most of the characters in the first few books and then it shot up in importance.

It didn't really though. We have a whiff that it may, when Cersei armed the faith. However the only thing that really produced was her and Marge's incarceration. 

I mean we do see some randos taking it kinda serious like Lancel but I've never taken Lancel serious and after his conversation with Jaime there's no reason for that to change. 

Then there's like that dude in Harrenhal but he's looked at as a more of an eccentric then a defender of their faith.

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

I get what you mean but that kind of makes it hard to have a discussion when people are discussing from different in-world subjective viewpoints rather than an (as far as possible) objective one or from the perspective of the reader. At least I find it hard to keep track.

That's what quotes are for! But if it's not in the books then it's worth conversation. And if everyone had the same viewpoints then we'd be better off talking to ourselves 

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

Also I can't tell when people are joking 

If it's me, I'm probably joking 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, LongRider said:

While that may be true, good conversations, analysis and insights can still be had.  Threads with headings such as the ones commonly seen on the boards today, like "Jon Snow likely to go insane' and 'Tully Madness" ect; ect.   Do not even begin to encourage conversations worth having.  We do not all have to agree on the issues, and hearing different opinions given with respect to the other posters, the story and the characters can be had and can be enjoyable.  Now if one even whispers Jon Snow, all of our favorite (sic) trolls jump in with their nonsense and the thread loses momentum.  

Yes yes, the poor life of Jon. Try being a Tyrion fan and have any conversation that doesn't revolve around rape. 

Not that the conversation isn't worth having, he did that rape that hooker, and Tysha and talks an awful lot about Cersei... Point being, there's plenty of conversations available and I agree that trying to deduce why Jon wanted to save Arya or why he sent Gilly's baby away can easily get distracted from the noise. However to flip the spectrum, deducing if it was right to off Janos can cause quite a  commotion as well.

Tully madness is kinda interesting tbh. That one post, from someone who no doubt reminds me of RhegarF , talked about Cat laughing while Summer licked the blood up, and like yea it was traumatizing and a near death experience and she was super against letting him be beside Bran and that obviously was the wrong call so it is kinda funny, but, a man is dead and she's cracking up. That's something you'd find in Batman. Lysa was mad, I think the direct quote from Sansa was "this lady is fucking mad", and Cat/LSH has had moments of eye brow raising, so like, do I think Cat or LSH is mad? No. Arya? No. Is it worth the conversation because if this was real life I'd have been called a doctor? Yea, sure, I honestly forgot about the Summer part till it was brought up in that thread.

And you know I love Arya to death, but she's not real. I still love her but I'm way more tilted on the she's not a real person side, so like call her mad, why should I care? Like, words are wind, Jon Snow's the devil? My advice? Don't feed the trolls

[csuszka1948]

Davos and Melisandre are interesting.

The first 3 books I genuinely believed that Davos is the most reliable narrator and sympathized with him the most since he comes from Flea Bottom and is against child sacrifice... but then the Melisandre chapter hit and made me drastically rethink my opinion about his reliability.

 

[csuszka1948]

6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I was going to add something about Stannis as well but I though that would detract from the point by starting a Stannis v Renly argument. I also mentioned religion as well. The Stark hate was my primary focus because it has been especially prominent recently.

 

 

 

Stannis is interesting because pretty much every POV character he interacts is his ally and someone who respects or loves him. Besides that, he has extremely good PR among the readers (especially Stark fans): he is the rightful King Ned wanted to crown, the only King who knows about the threat of the Others, who saved the Watch from the wildlings and will 'liberate' Winterfell from the hated Boltons.

I think this causes him to be viewed a better person than he actually is and that's why people were absolutely shocked from his portrayal in the show and his decision to sacrifice Shireen.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, csuszka1948 said:

Stannis is interesting because pretty much every POV character he interacts is his ally and someone who respects or loves him. Besides that, he has extremely good PR among the readers (especially Stark fans): he is the rightful King Ned wanted to crown, the only King who knows about the threat of the Others, who saved the Watch from the wildlings and will 'liberate' Winterfell from the hated Boltons.

I think this causes him to be viewed a better person than he actually is and that's why people were absolutely shocked from his portrayal in the show and his decision to sacrifice Shireen.

I expect though, that in the books, his sacrifice of Shireen will be for some reason other than just personal ambition. 

[JonSnow4President]

9 hours ago, csuszka1948 said:

I think this causes him to be viewed a better person than he actually is and that's why people were absolutely shocked from his portrayal in the show and his decision to sacrifice Shireen.

It doesn't come out of the blue. But barring a last minute teleportation of Shireen, it can't happen as it did in the books. Stannis has already come through worse than what the show portrayed, and Shireen isn't anywhere to burn.  

Personally, I think Stannis is one of the most tragic characters in the series.  He inherently wants to do what he believes to be the right thing, and takes his duties more seriously than anyone else remaining in the series, save maybe Brienne. He believes he is the prophesied hero that has to save the world, never seeking out that role.  And he's going to sacrifice everything trying to fulfill that role.  And ultimately, he's going to be wrong.

 

Quote

 

"Edric—" he started.

"—is one boy! He may be the best boy who ever drew breath and it would not matter. My duty is to the realm." His hand swept across the Painted Table. "How many boys dwell in Westeros? How many girls? How many men, how many women? The darkness will devour them all, she says. The night that never ends. She talks of prophecies . . . a hero reborn in the sea, living dragons hatched from dead stone . . . she speaks of signs and swears they point to me. I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be king. Yet dare I disregard her?" He ground his teeth. "We do not choose our destinies. Yet we must . . . we must do our duty, no? Great or small, we must do our duty.

 

Quote

 

"Your Grace," said Davos, "the cost . . ."

"I know the cost! Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning . . . burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him into ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?" The king moved, so his shadow fell upon King's Landing. "If Joffrey should die . . . what is the life of one bastard boy against a kingdom?"

"Everything," said Davos, softly.

 

Quote

Stannis ground his teeth again. "I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty . . . If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark . . . Sacrifice . . . is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice. Tell him, my lady."

 

[LongRider]

14 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Try being a Tyrion fan and have any conversation that doesn't revolve around rape. 

Try being a fan of Sansa, or the Hound, or Sam.  Tyrion gets a bad rap because he is a complex person who does terrible things sometimes.  Many fans hate book Sansa, and the Hound and OMG Sam is fat!   Those conversations can go round and round and hooked on one subject about a character.  There is more to these characters than their worst action, that's what makes them interesting.  

[Hugorfonics]

30 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Try being a fan of Sansa, or the Hound, or Sam.  Tyrion gets a bad rap because he is a complex person who does terrible things sometimes.  Many fans hate book Sansa, and the Hound and OMG Sam is fat!   Those conversations can go round and round and hooked on one subject about a character.  There is more to these characters than their worst action, that's what makes them interesting.  

Omg Sansa! (Don't have to try, she's my second favorite character) Yea for real, honestly whatever hate Jon and Tyrion get which is all the time and forever overreaching, can't compete with the hate the girls get. Probably Sansa more then Arya (but maybe not, because Arya is quite hated) (poor Sandor gets hated twice as hard because of his connections with both of em) (is Sam hated? I've always thought of the jokes about him as like juvenile, just a quick laugh. Not an indepth look on the morality or efficiency of Sam)

But yea agree! These characters are more often then not warlords who's personal interests often don't align with the realm or other person's interests. But for the most part, nearly every character, is good peoples at heart. 

(Especially the girls. Arya ending the torture of the men in the gibbet and Sansa saving Lancel are definitely the markings of the good. It's hard to imagine any other character doing that, and tbh perhaps many people in real life)