How special is Daenerys? How is Daenerys special?

[Aebram]

Good morrow to all, 

I'm working on a post about the principles or laws of magic in the ASOIAF universe.   It seems that the Metaphysical Constitution will need an amendment about Daenerys.  She successfully hatched three dragons, when others with more knowledge and experience had failed to do so. 

I've seen a couple of reports that the George has said that this event, and Daenerys herself, are special and unique, and we should not expect them to be repeated.   Do any of you have more information about this?   If possible, I'd like to see the actual interviews, blog posts, etc. where he made these comments.

Thanks in advance!

[FayUnreal]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=aSltMdiw6G8&feature=share 

Let me know if this helps you out! 

[astarkchoice]

Shes a targaryian who seems to have the old targ qualities of fire reistance , prophetic dreams and bonding to dragons.

Shes lucky that shes in a period where magic seems to be 'waking up' but also she seems to have helped kickstart her own abilities with messing with the magis ritual  and her own 'funeral pyre' ritual ,  swigging some shade of the evening and going to the house of the undying.

Being on the run then embracing the dothraki ways seems to have toughened her up as well as helping her bond to nature/animals (big jump from horse to dragon yes  but its a stepping stone).

[Aerodimas]

Look Preston's "dragon genetics" videos. I'm not saying they are true but you'll fin it interesting and plausible. 

There is also the posibility of a dream incursion, someone told her how in dreams (posibly her ancestors).

I think is a mix, the right genetics, a bit of luck and som mistical medeling.

[Aebram]

16 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Shes a targaryian who seems to have the old targ qualities of fire reistance , prophetic dreams and bonding to dragons.

One of the sources that I found is a Youtube video by "bridge4."  It shows a quote from GRRM on the screen, which says  that "Targaryens are not immune to fire."  It also says that Daenerys surviving Drogo's funeral pyre was "unique, magical, wondrous, a miracle;" and she will "probably not" be able to do it again.

My other source is a forum post by U. B. Cool on February 16 in which he wrote, "George R. R. Martin has said more than a few times.  Dany is very special.  She is the only one who could hatch petrified dragon eggs and bring the species back to life."  If he has indeed said it "more than a few times," I hope someone can give me a link.

[Aerodimas]

@Aebram also, GRRM described the pyre as Dany being reborn. It's logical that se can't do it again.

[astarkchoice]

9 hours ago, Aebram said:

One of the sources that I found is a Youtube video by "bridge4."  It shows a quote from GRRM on the screen, which says  that "Targaryens are not immune to fire."  It also says that Daenerys surviving Drogo's funeral pyre was "unique, magical, wondrous, a miracle;" and she will "probably not" be able to do it again.

My other source is a forum post by U. B. Cool on February 16 in which he wrote, "George R. R. Martin has said more than a few times.  Dany is very special.  She is the only one who could hatch petrified dragon eggs and bring the species back to life."  If he has indeed said it "more than a few times," I hope someone can give me a link.

Not immune no but resistant

The old lhrase of fire cannot burn a dragon seems to have been handed down from something

Sorta jumping into a 'grand unified theory of planetos magic' here  but it seems the valyrians bred for  a sort of warging/bonding  to mystical beasts but also fire resistance  to help them with the process of linking to a dragon.

So it is similar to the stark/northern powers.

The dreams and greensight are probably the same.power seen throught different eyes/given different names...again similar

 

[Aebram]

Yes, a "unified theory" is what I'm hoping to develop. I've already found a few quotes from the George about magic in general. I'm trying to find some that are specifically about Daenerys.

[Aebram]

10 hours ago, Aerodimas said:

@Aebram also, GRRM described the pyre as Dany being reborn. It's logical that se can't do it again.

Hmm, I don't know if being logical is much help in this world. :^) 

But Thanks for the tip! By any chance, do you know where/when he said/wrote this? Got a link?

[Aerodimas]

36 minutes ago, Aebram said:

Hmm, I don't know if being logical is much help in this world. :^) 

But Thanks for the tip! By any chance, do you know where/when he said/wrote this? Got a link?

It's in the art. The name of the art depicting Dany , the pyre and the dragons is called samething like that.

GRRM also said it in som interview but no idea when or were.

[Kierria]

On 6/2/2023 at 5:53 AM, Aerodimas said:

@Aebram also, GRRM described the pyre as Dany being reborn. It's logical that se can't do it again.

She did survive another fire.  At Daznak's Pit. 

[Kierria]

George will keep magic mysterious.  Explanations are not coming.  Daenerys is very special because she has the ability to bring an extinct species back to life.  Her best traits are not magic though.  She is very intelligent and very cunning.  She is a great leader.  The fire resistant tricks aside it is her non-magical qualities that make her admirable. 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

9 minutes ago, Kierria said:

She did survive another fire.  At Daznak's Pit. 

She got grazed, she didn’t get full on blasted 

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

4 minutes ago, Kierria said:

George will keep magic mysterious.  Explanations are not coming.  Daenerys is very special because she has the ability to bring an extinct species back to life.  Her best traits are not magic though.  She is very intelligent and very cunning.  She is a great leader.  The fire resistant tricks aside it is her non-magical qualities that make her admirable. 

“Very cunning” not really. Her mistakes led to Astapor falling and the current rebellion she is dealing with

[Aerodimas]

2 hours ago, Kierria said:

She did survive another fire.  At Daznak's Pit. 

But she gets burn. She burned her skun when she mounted Drogon.

[Evolett]

Well, GRRM is certainly not very forthcoming on this issue but I think it all boils down to a mixture of inheritance,  Dany's dragon dreams, a couple of "aha moments," Rhaego's possible influence, lessons learned from Miiri, the arrival of the bleeding star at just the right moment and Dany's supreme confidence that she would succeed. A set of fortuitous circumstances coming together in the right mix to effect a waking of fossilized dragon eggs. 

Inheritance: no dragon eggs hatching / baby dragons surviving after the dance suggests the "blood of the dragon" was obliterated from Targaryen lineage because of the decimation of the house during the civil war. There were simply no Targs left with the trait. Either that or it was too weak to induce dragon hatching. Personally, I think that over time, they slowly recovered components of the "blood" by intermarrying with FM families and with the Daynes. These are all very old bloodlines, possibly older than the Targaryen bloodline itself and at one point originating in the East, in Essos. It took time for the bloodline to recover and issue forth someone with a very strong interation of the blood. 

We must take Drogo into consideration. He is compared to Aegon the Conqueror and he is the "sun" to Dany's "moon" (think Legend of Qarth here). Did he have the blood of the dragon?

 

Interesting also is that Dany began having dragon dreams before her wedding  to Drogo, prior  to receiving the eggs. While dreaming of Viserys hitting and hurting her, a dragon comes to the rescue:

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Her thighs were slick with blood. She closed her eyes and whimpered. As if in answer, there was a hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again, Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, and in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found hers, she woke, shaking and covered with a fine sheen of sweat. She had never been so afraid … 

The dream dragon dealt with Viserys, but at this point Dany is still very fearful but the next time the dragon appears in her dreams, it gives her the strength to accept her new way of life with the Dothraki as well as bear Drogo's nightly visits. 

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Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night … Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time.

There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

So here we have the dream dragon preparing her for what is to come. Making her anew, strong and fierce and this is a prerequisite to all that will follow. Dany needs to be strong, fearless and confident to be able to tread the path before her. This actually reminds me of the howling of the direwolves sustaining Bran while he lay in his coma. Same principle. The dreams contribute to activating Dany's dragon blood. 

As time goes on, she learns many things that shed light on factors important to "waking dragons." There is the Legend of Qarth with its metaphor of the moon cracking to release dragons into the world. The moon is at the same time an "egg" and "the wife of the sun." The children of these heavenly bodies are dragons infused with the fire of the sun. Fire. Heat. One ingredient. 

Dany also discovers that she can handle hot dragon eggs placed in the fire without blistering her hands, while others cannot. She is fire-resistant to a degree (she also liked scalding hot baths while still at Illyrio's manse. 

For a while now, I've speculated on the idea that Rhaego was actually Azor Ahai, (un)born of "salt and smoke," aka Dany and Drogo. I don't want to get too far into that here but it seems likely that Rhaego was a key factor in kindling the spark of life within the dragon eggs. Dany is lying down, holding the green dragon egg:

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She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her … as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. “You are the dragon,” Dany whispered to him, “the true dragon. I know it. I know it.”

 

  She feels her baby reaching out to the egg. Notice: brother to brother, blood to blood and Dany thinking of her son as the true dragon. I don't think she's wrong. Recall also, that the Targs placed dragon eggs in the cradles of the infants, similar to what Dany does here. She repeats this factor of being close to the eggs when she joins them in the funeral pyre. 

In her fevered "wake the dragon" dream she experiences the urgency of escaping "icy breath," turns into a dragon and flies at the end of it (another parallel to Bran who also flies at the end of his three-eyed-crow dream).

Then there is Mirri and the lessons learned from her. Only death can pay for life, the most important lesson. But who did Mirri give up her life for? Daenerys is my answer to that. Dany is not completely immune to fire. To be able to survive the fire, to become the "Unburnt," Dany needed to pay with a life in return - Mirri's life, the life of a magic-practitioner and godswife . 

 

After euthanizing Drogo, all these factors come together, realisation crystallises and she knows exactly what to do. The strength imparted by the dream dragon, her determination, proximity to the eggs, great heat to crack them open, a life to give so that she may remain unburnt, a heavely sign that may have been a kick-start to magic in the world. Even before visiting the Undying, she is aware of the following:

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Ser Jorah calling her name and cursing. No, she wanted to shout to him, no, my good knight, do not fear for me. The fire is mine. I am Daenerys Stormborn, daughter of dragons, bride of dragons, mother of dragons, don’t you see! Don’t you SEE? 

To top it off, she decides to wait for a sign, another ingredient, and what do you know, the bleeding star appears. Now this is significant because Rhaegar noted a comet on Aegon's conception and Mel too speaks of bleeding stars in conjunction with waking dragons from stone. I would say the comet was a requirement as well. 

Daenerys waits until Mirri's screams subside before entering the fire. At this point the godswife is probably dead, her life given in exchange for Dany's. It is probably also important that Drogo receives appropriate funeral rites. As the pyre burns, Dany opens her arms to the fire, embracing it, thinking of it as a wedding. Like Bran who weds and becomes one with the weirwood, Dany becomes  one with the fire and works a miracle.

We can speculate on where Dany's dragon dreams came from. Who sent them? Some readers cite Quaith. Perhaps. 

[SaffronLady]

I can't contribute much on quotes here, but regarding thinking about Dany's metaphysical position in the scheme of things, I like to emphasize on her side as the mother (both the mother of dragons and mother of the slaves she freed) instead of the girl. Symbology means something in the realm of magic, I'd say.

[Wolf's Bane]

Dany has beauty, intelligence, magic, and courage. The Targaryens are special because of their lineage and genetics.  Dany is the most gifted among the Targaryens.  They are already special because of the dragon bonding abilities and physical beauty but Dany takes that to another level because she can bring and did bring dragons back to life. 

[Evolett]

10 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

I can't contribute much on quotes here, but regarding thinking about Dany's metaphysical position in the scheme of things, I like to emphasize on her side as the mother (both the mother of dragons and mother of the slaves she freed) instead of the girl. Symbology means something in the realm of magic, I'd say.

Can you elaborate on this? I agree with the importance of Dany being a mother and am interested in any ideas you may have on this. 

What stands out to me in the HotU is how the first vision presented to her mirrors her final experience in the chamber of the Undying. 

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In one room, a beautiful woman sprawled naked on the floor while four little men crawled over her. They had rattish pointed faces and tiny pink hands, like the servitor who had brought her the glass of shade. One was pumping between her thighs. Another savaged her breasts, worrying at the nipple with his wet red mouth, tearing and chewing. 

In the chamber, Dany is the beautiful young girl being ravaged by the Undying.  But it's not only the Undying who want her life. The slaves clamour for her life too:

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“Mother!” they cried, “mother, mother!” They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them …

 

Personally, I think these scenes are central to the backstory, to the mystery of the quirky seasons. They conjure up images of a "mother goddess" or earth goddess who is raped and abused, having the life sucked out of her until she can give no more but is forced to deliver. In terms of the seasons, summers that go on for years guarantee enough food and prosperity for all (provided the rains oblige as well). It's a desirable condition but at the end of the day, "all men" and all life must die for regeneration and rebirth to occur. This happens too infrequently on Planetos and the reason is magical in nature. 

Daenerys may represent this metaphorical abused mother goddess, who is now trying to break out of this cycle of forever "giving her life" to the people. The Undying of Qarth  reside in a city surrounded by a "garden of bones" and a blistering desert. From the histories we know the land dried up behind them as the ancestors of the Qartheen moved ever farther south. The Undying are like this desert, dried up and hanging on to life only through magic, waiting a thousand years for Daenerys to appear and revive them. Did their magic contribute to the asynchronous seasons? And how do dragons fit into the picture?

As to the dragons, the answer probably lies in the fact that they somehow "bring magic into the world." They facilitate magic. If magic is a force that flows, for example, from the bowels of the earth, from volcanos, from trees or nature in general, then dragons represent an amplifying intermediary between the source and the practitioner. So for the Undying of Qarth to be able to work their spells (not only the Undying), they need access to this "dragon blood," to the mother goddess who represents life, and to dragons, bringing us round to the "mother of dragons" again. 

We may wonder whether Dany was inspired to end slavery by the vision of the slaves clamouring for her life fires in the HotU (that and the circumstance of her having being sold herself). Fact is, she liberates the people but cannot feed them all, though she does her best to provide for them. There is a lesson there as well. Endless years of produce, of giving, of summer, are unsustaiable in the long run. When that goes on for centuries with no proper period of rest and rejuvenation, the land is exhausted. The climate changes, whole regions dry out (see East of the Bones mountains and the dessication of the Silver Sea in Essos). And this indeed is what dragons also represent. When the magic they mediate is used indiscriminately, the result is scorched earth.  Let's not forget that Old Valyria was also known as the "Land of the Long Summer," and was at one time the most fertile place on the planet (according to tWoIaF).