Daenerys, Targaryen Glory, And Dragons

[SeanF]

The Targaryens aren’t fit to lick the boots of noble leaders like Walder Frey, Janos Slynt, Roose and Ramsay Bolton, and Bowen the Hero.

[kissdbyfire]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:35 AM, Darth Sidious said:

We are down to the last two books of the story and it is obvious that the only family to successfully unite the continent are the Targaryens. Robert got his chance and blew it. The Baratheons and their dogs could not even carry out one succession. Robert was too inept to see what Jaime and Cersei were doing to him. Arryn should have seen it but he was an old man. Ned was no better.  Robb, Renly, Jaime, Cersei, Balon, and Jon are fools who brought chaos. Westeros will be in a desperate condition until Daenerys comes to its rescue and sorts things out. 

 

I sure as shit hope you and your fellow TARGAs stick around after Winds comes out and that you all wait for ADoS, should be interesting to witness the collective meltdown.

[Aebram]

On 12/10/2023 at 10:35 PM, Darth Sidious said:

We are down to the last two books of the story and it is obvious that the only family to successfully unite the continent are the Targaryens ...... Westeros will be in a desperate condition until Daenerys comes to its rescue and sorts things out. 

I am largely in agreement with this. To me, it seems like House Targaryen is the real protagonist in the mega-story: the entire history of the world that the George has built. The World book has about 100 pages devoted specifically to them. Then there is another entire book, Fire and Blood, with another volume yet to come. Even the Dunk and Egg stories are largely about the Targaryens, with Dunk serving as a "walking camera" to witness their actions.

With all that build-up, I'll be very surprised if Daenerys, or possibly a Targaryen to be named later, does not end up as a major victor / heroic figure at the end of the story. Of course, the George does like to break stereotypes, so I'm not placing any bets.

[Gilbert Green]

26 minutes ago, Aebram said:

Even the Dunk and Egg stories are largely about the Targaryens, with Dunk serving as a "walking camera" to witness their actions.

I guess people see what the want to see (and I'm not necessarily excluding myself).  You see a walking camera watching the Targaryens.  I see the protagonist, who, in the very first story, takes on the role of a True Knight who stands between the maiden and a metaphorical dragon (a Targaryen).

29 minutes ago, Aebram said:

With all that build-up, I'll be very surprised if Daenerys, or possibly a Targaryen to be named later, does not end up as a major victor / heroic figure at the end of the story. Of course, the George does like to break stereotypes, so I'm not placing any bets.

Not ruling out happy endings for any character.  I just don't think GRRM intends to endorse the message that anything the Targs do is justified because you have to conquer the World to save the World

[Aebram]

23 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

I guess people see what the want to see (and I'm not necessarily excluding myself).  You see a walking camera watching the Targaryens.  I see the protagonist, who, in the very first story, takes on the role of a True Knight who stands between the maiden and a metaphorical dragon (a Targaryen).

Certainly, Dunk is an admirable character, and well written. But in two of the three stories that have been published so far, the events that he deals with revolve around the Targaryens and their intramural battles and intrigues. And of course, Egg himself is a Targaryen.

Westeros is a big place. I'm sure that, if he wanted to, the George could have written some very fine adventures for Dunk without weaving every plot into Targaryen history. Hence my "walking camera" comment.

[Mad King Bolton]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:35 PM, Darth Sidious said:

Robert got his chance and blew it. The Baratheons and their dogs could not even carry out one succession.

Robert is not "the Baratheons" beyond his own lifespan.  Yes he was a failure as a ruler but didn't want to rule, just wanted to kill Rhaegar.  he wasn't groomed to rule and so yes, he was lousy at it, but to say "the Baratheons" had a chance to rule and blew it is like picking one single Targaryen ruler and saying "the Targs" were good/bad rulers based on it.  300 years of Targaryen rule gave us a greater sample size, but still good rulers and bad, with highs and lows.  Maegor, Aerys, Aegon the 4th vs (don't feel like picking out the good ones).  

 

just saying, in any country or realm's history, we can choose a narrative and support it.  A well groomed leader with a plan and vision who makes the right allies with strong self-protection can create a strong legacy but after they're gone, no matter how well you've tried to create a good succession, your off-spring or intended successor may ruin your plans when they try to make the realm fit their own identity and vision (if they truly have it).

[Gilbert Green]

20 hours ago, Aebram said:

Certainly, Dunk is an admirable character, and well written. But in two of the three stories that have been published so far, the events that he deals with revolve around the Targaryens and their intramural battles and intrigues. And of course, Egg himself is a Targaryen.

Westeros is a big place. I'm sure that, if he wanted to, the George could have written some very fine adventures for Dunk without weaving every plot into Targaryen history. Hence my "walking camera" comment.

Nobody is saying that Targs are not part of the story.  I am not even doubting that some of them may end up as heros.

What I am questioning is the idea that the Targs are so central, that anything they do is justified, no matter how many crops they burn on the eve of Winter, no matter how many Nissa Nissas they skewer, no matter how many Hazzeas they devour. 

Any Targs that end the series as heroes will reject such doctrines of death.

[Farstrider]

Dany won't come to Westeros until right at the ending of the last book.  Justice and the lack of it is the root of all conflicts.  She needs to stop the slave trade first before she can return to Westeros.