Israel and Palestine- The permanent mess

[kissdbyfire]

Lovely sentiment. /s

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Just now, Zorral said:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party

1977.

Yes, but Netanyahu wasn't running it then. He took over in the 90's

It's amazing how so many of you can't get basic facts correct.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Zorral said:

From the start of this, you are one of the posters who showed over and over an ignorance of this complicated and long history.

You literally just got the date wrong and were off by decades. 

[Zorral]

Just now, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

You literally just got the date wrong and were off by decades. 

How can you say that when I have again posted the link to the original charter of Likud?  Which includes the gdd date.

I highly recommend you listen to that NYer podcast of Israel and media that I have linked to above. It's clear you are only reading Israeli propaganda.

You again have shown you don't read or listen to anything else, particularly what is linked to and quoted from here.

[Zorral]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Netanyahu wasn't running it then. He took over in the 90's

So that the desire to erase Palestinians from the region, stated long before he got The Power means nothing? 

So then, that Mein Kampf was written before Hitler took power means nothing either.  That long before Secession, movers and shakers in the Southern Slaveocracy were declaring their way the only way to have the USA meant nothing, as those people took more and more power in both the South and in Washington meant nothing either.

You agree with that surely.

Either you are a very poor debater or your position is just so wrong, that people cannot be convinced by your arguments -- outside of Israel.

[TheKitttenGuard]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Just like this. Literally saying life in Hebrew is not the same as you need to leave or die. 

Yes just that like you go and want to defend the incorporation of a slogan Racist group.

I really thought for a moment that I did not want to mention how yes it Life yet facist ruin shit. I thought it would of been silly and I take it is not.

I wanted a little to show how you need to be careful on judging people and use of slogan yet you want to defend the Facist.

You can make all proclamations you want to, it been demonstrated what been done by Israel with U.S support that created a full hostile situation like Oct. 10 to occur. Instead of getting rid of Nentanyahu, Smoertich, and Ben-Iver along with ilk you determined they need to be rally and if it means Israel be brought on Genocide charge it will be worth it.

[Zorral]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

You literally just got the date wrong and were off by decades. 

I got the date right, and have the link to show it. Which I have posted here many times.  You are going round the bend.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I got the date right, and have the link to show it. Which I have posted here many times.  You are going round the bend.

Founded	December 10, 1987

This shit isn't hard. Just admit you got it wrong. 

[fionwe1987]

35 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

You have to understand the history and the nuances to understand today. Being incredibly selective isn't helpful.

You're conflating things again. You brought up the lack of adequate condemnation of Hamas, and how that would make someone clueless reading these threads think that all the blame is one-sided. I replied that that isn't the point of these threads, to get someone completely clueless about this conflict a history lesson, and that each post is not, and cannot, be written up for said hypothetical cluless person wandering into this thread.

27 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Yes, but Netanyahu wasn't running it then. He took over in the 90's

It's amazing how so many of you can't get basic facts correct.  

Case in point on conflation and mixing things up. Zorral referred to Likud's charter, not Netanyahu. You brought up 1987, which surely isn't when Netanyahu came into power. So what were you even talking about there? And how bizarre that you're throwing accusations of not getting facts right at the OP when you're the one thoroughly confused?

[kissdbyfire]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

It's amazing how so many of you can't get basic facts correct.  

Why the patronising tone? Yes, everyone knows Bibi wasn't in charge or in government then. That's hardly the issue, though, because no one has said "Netanyahu has been trying to do this since he joined the government" or anything along those lines. What was said by me and others is that Netanyahu's agenda has always been to expel Palestinians, to ethnic cleanse the whole region, and that he's been loudly talking about it since at least the 70s, to anyone who'd listen. What we didn't add because we didn't think it was necessary was, "even before he joined the government".

[fionwe1987]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Founded	December 10, 1987

This shit isn't hard. Just admit you got it wrong. 

Let me Google this for you. I asked Google "When was the Likud party founded?"

Answer: 

Quote

The Likud party was founded on September 13, 1973. The party was formed by an alliance of several right-wing parties, including Herut, the Liberal Party, the Free Centre, the National List, and the Movement for Greater Israel. The parties merged in 1988 to form the Likud party. 
The Likud party was established to challenge the Israel Labour Party, which had governed the country since its independence in 1948. The Likud first came to power in 1977, with Menachem Begin as prime minister. Since the late 1970s, the Likud has alternated in power with the Israel Labour Party. 

Wikipedia also confirms this, as does Brittanica, as does this link from Likud's own website: https://www.likud.org.il/en/about-the-likud/history-of-the-movement

Quote

The Likud Party started out as a group of parties that united in 1973 just before the elections to the 8^th Knesset, and included Herut, the Liberal Party, the Free Center, the National List, and the Labor Movement for Greater Israel.  The list for the Knesset was drawn up from representatives of the various movements, based on an agreed formula.

I suppose the internet could be wrong, but you're gonna have to prove that before you hurl further insults at other's factuality.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

23 minutes ago, Zorral said:

So that the desire to erase Palestinians from the region, stated long before he got The Power means nothing? 

Who said that?

Quote

So then, that Mein Kampf was written before Hitler took power means nothing either.  

You've crossed a serious line here.

19 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Yes just that like you go and want to defend the incorporation of a slogan Racist group.

It's literally a basic Hebrew word. The guy in the movie Old School is wearing the symbol around his heck when saying he's here for the gang bang. It doesn't mean all that much. My hippie step-mother wears one every now and then. It's not the same as a slogan that means leave. 

[Zorral]

Grief and vengeance: 100 days of war in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank

Photographs, primarily.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/israel-gaza-west-bank-100-days/?itid=hp-top-table-main_p001_f003

Quote

 

Newsstands and television screens show over and over the scenes of Hamas’s crimes. They show the Israeli army in Gaza. They show the Israeli army in Gaza. But they rarely show show what is happening to civilians.

Palestinians there are frantic and bone-tired. The pace of death is so fast, the possibility of famine so close, that residents say they have little time to mourn or to process their losses. Fear — how to survive the night, how to find a little food — is a more pressing constant.

With more than two-thirds of homes now destroyed, much of Gaza is effectively gone.  ....

 

 

[Zorral]

9 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

I suppose the internet could be wrong, but you're gonna have to prove that before you hurl further insults at other's factuality.

How does this prove I'm wrong?  The charter for Likud was drawn up in 1977.  You are now trying to say it was earlier than that, 1973.  OK then, but you previously stated that Hamas (2003) was long before Likud and Natanyahu. 

You're not making sense -- debate fail, unless, of course, following the paths of rumpistas and other fascists -- always accusing the objectors of whatever they are shown to be doing or to have done.

 

Edited January 14 by Zorral

[fionwe1987]

6 minutes ago, Zorral said:

How does this prove I'm wrong?  The charter for Likud was drawn up in 1977.  You are now trying to say it was earlier than that, 1973.  OK then, but you previously stated that Hamas (2003) was long before Likud and Natanyahu. 

You're not making sense.

 

Huh?  That reply wasn't directed at you. I was defending what you had said, that Likud's charter was older than Hamas, and showing that Lord Tywin was wrong when he said Likud was established much later.

Edited January 14 by fionwe1987

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

You're conflating things again. 

Conflating things is saying when Hamas was created and bringing up when Likud was, and not the getting the dates right. Then not getting Likud's current regime right. It's staggering. 
 

16 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Why the patronising tone? 

These entire threads have been patronizing. I'm a reformed Jew, I grew up in the most liberal setting possibly, one that is critical of a lot of what Israel has done, but to hear people talk like they understand the conflict when they have no connection to it is the literal definition of patronizing and gaslighting. 

Frankly I'm done. Mex and Fez were wise to check out earlier.

 

Edited January 14 by Mr. Chatywin et al.

[TheKitttenGuard]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

It's literally a basic Hebrew word. The guy in the movie Old School is wearing the symbol around his heck when saying he's here for the gang bang. It doesn't mean all that much. My hippie step-mother wears one every now and then. It's not the same as a slogan that means leave. 

A Racist organization taking a mundane or positive phrase and making it awful is a speciality of theirs. I think that should be recognize but no excuse to ignore it.

Israel Chai was used during a rally where at the same time they canted no cease fire gave a real image.

I have a long time stop thinking Hippie as peace-love as the same. Hippie can be just as Facist.

 

If you take away from this I think Chai is now Facist or just Racist is very wrong. 

Edited January 14 by TheKitttenGuard

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Hamas was est. 2003; 

This. It's dead wrong.

[fionwe1987]

1 minute ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Conflating things is saying when Hamas was created and bringing up when Likud was, not getting of the dates right. Then not getting Likud's current regime right. It's staggering. 

 Yeah no. We've been discussing Likud's 1977 charter, which you have distracted from by bringing up the irrelevant point that Netanyahu wasn't PM then, and then saying it was established in 1987, not 1977. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Huh?  That reply wasn't directed at you. I was defending what you had said, that Likud's charter was older than Hamas, and showing that Lord Tywin was wrong when he said Likud was established much later.

Hamas began as a political movement in the late 60's to early 70's. It became a party in the 80's.