Scott Lynch's Red Seas Under Red Skies

[kcf]

Crackpot theory : Locke dies and we learn to our surprise that the Gentlman Bastard sequence is about Jean!!!

[Lupigis]

Read it. Liked it a lot but agree that it's a bit similar to LLL in places. Locke will live and Merrain is working for (a faction among) the Bondsmagi.

On thing is bugging me, though! I distinctly remember reading an excerpt somewhere, propably on Lynch's LJ. In the excerpt, Locke and Jean are on the Poison Orchid which is being hunted by another ship. Drakasha arranges some ruse with dummies in the masts to make it look like they have an accident, to put the pursuers off their guard. This scene wasn't in the book, and now I can't find the excerpt on the web. Am I going senile or does someone else remember this too?

[Lupigis]

Bump

[Lord Baelish]

I finished it a couple of nights ago. I thought it was a lot better than LoLL. There weren't so many flashbacks to interrupt the flow of the story. I thought it was a shame about Ezri dying though - it was obvious that she was going to from the moment she and Jean started getting close. I had hoped Lynch might do something less obvious. That aside, however, it was a great book. Lots of interesting stuff happened, particularly about Merrain. No idea who she serves, though the Bondsmagi seem to be the best bet.

[oneeye]

so after 17 years in Boston i live in Germany now unfortunately....

bought red seas, cost me 20 euros and it's some cheapo softcover from Britain...

wtf...

[beniowa]

I don't think Merrain is working for the Bondsmagi. They want LL to suffer and she intended to kill them at the end because they were in the way. That implies a different master. Also, the Magi contacted all the parties in the books themselves instead of through her. She must be working for another group that has yet to be seen.

[Decius]

so after 17 years in Boston i live in Germany now unfortunately....

bought red seas, cost me 20 euros and it's some cheapo softcover from Britain...

wtf...

[Mauvka]

Well, here's the relevant quote from the Merrain section:

It wasn't that she desired Kosta and de Ferra to fail. But if they did return successful in their mission, what was to stop Stragos from assigning them another task? His poison made tools of them indefinately. And if they could return victorious, well...men like that were better off dead if they couldn't be put to use on behalf of the interests she served. Resolved, she set about finishing the job. The thought that for once it would be entirely painless was a comfort in her work.

[Prince in the North]

Hello fellow Lynch enthusiasts! Long time lurker (and occassional poster) on the old board, and rookie poster here on the new one with a question about RSUS:

In Chapter 13, (page 478 in UK version), as Locke and Jean go back to the Sinspire for the first time after casting off, Selendri appears to say to Jean "Stay here in the service area, Valora". As far as I have worked out at this point in the book she only knows him as Jermoe de Ferra, so do you think this is an error that has slipped by editing or does Selendri know a bit more than she lets on and we may see her again in another book? (Or the third option is that I've missed something very obvious and misread the entire section).

Anyway, great book with razor sharp dialogue again, and enough lingering plot points to make the start of the next book extremely interesting. It is going to be a long wait for the Republic of Thieves :)

[Decius]

In Chapter 13, (page 478 in UK version), as Locke and Jean go back to the Sinspire for the first time after casting off, Selendri appears to say to Jean "Stay here in the service area, Valora". As far as I have worked out at this point in the book she only knows him as Jermoe de Ferra, so do you think this is an error that has slipped by editing or does Selendri know a bit more than she lets on and we may see her again in another book? (Or the third option is that I've missed something very obvious and misread the entire section).

[Prince in the North]

Yeah, the layers of deception did get very convoluted, as Locke himself said at one point! Very clever how Locke and Jean eventually use the three major powers in Tal Verrar to cause problems for each other and then attempt to reap the reward themselves. The last chapter was pretty much an insane jam session of twists and counter-twists (I did not see the problems with the antidote coming and assumed that both the Gentlemen Bastards would be fine by the end) - Great fun :).

[delete this account pls]

Just finished it. Initial thoughts;

I think I liked it as much as LOLL. Agreed that Merrain isn't working for the Bonsmagi. For one, I think their field agent for such an important mission would be a sorceror. Secondly, what interest do the Bondsmagi have in aiding the Archon of Tal verrar? Thirdly, if Merrain worked for them, why didn't the Bondsmagi help Stragos more directly in his bid for outright power? He wouldn't have needed Locke and Jean's deceptions if the Bondsmagi were on his side.

The Priori will obviously come to regret giving Requin what he wanted at the end. Selendri is making herself into a Verrari Spider, with her very own Midnighters (the captured Eyes).

Ezri - her death was a little predictable. Not the nature of it, but the death itself. As soon as she and Jean started making plans for the future she was doomed.

The poison - I think its real. Like the Archon said, a man of his position and power has no need to bluff. Merrain certainly thought it was real, which is why she killed Stragos' alchemist.

The flashbacks - I enjoyed the ones in LOLL more. I liked the very first one though. "Who's the biggest, meanest motherfucker in the Brass Coves?" The rock climbing flashback must be setting up something for the future books. The whole encounter with the bumpkin highwayman, and forcing him to swear allegance to Locke, has no real point otherwise, so I'm sure we'll see that guy again.

The Parlour Passage - it never occurred to me it might have something to do with the Eldren, but I think the idea is on the money. The whole tale about the Ghostwind town Hope-of-Silver dissapearing one night reminded me of the missing Roanoke colony, maybe a deliberate allusion?

A running theme in LOLL was hubris and the cost of it. In RSUS on e running theme was 'beware the gods'. For the first half of the book, Locke ignores or even breaks certain rules, like neglecting women and cats at sea, and he's painfully punished for it.

Have you noticed that Locke and Jean are actually quite religous? They take care not to offend the various gods (The line early on with Locke wondering if any of them had farted in a temple recently to offend the gods was hilarious!) and seem to genuinely pray to the Crooked Warden when they do, its not a reflex action or saying tossed off lightly, when they ask help of the Crooke Warden they do so meaning very word, they might be jocular and familiar whilst doing it but I think you can tell they are sincere.

[MajorMajor]

Fantastic read! Lies was brilliant, entertaining, amusing, fresh and carried real emotion. I can safely say the Red Seas does the same. What was going to happen to Ezri was a bit obvious but in fairness there weren't too many ways it could have gone. I don't see the point in complaining about things like that. You might as well complain that a character speaks or eats. Love and loss, there a big part of life. Very well written, the dialogue is as good as the first. The characters were supurb and I loved the locations! 'THE GODS HAVE SENT YOUR DOOM MOTHERFUCKERS!' :stunned: :pirate: :wideeyed: I think it was, made me piss myself laughing. Exactly what you want to read. Fucking hilarious stuff. I am so happy that there is much more to come. Quality entertainment is a sadly rare thing. I'll get all I can! Keep writing Scott!!!

Edited to correct quote, had to get that right. :P

[mormont]

The simplest, strongest argument against Merrain being a servant of the bondsmagi is her tattoo. Lynch goes out of his way to show the reader that design, a very clear, striking one that has not been seen before in the series. It's obvious, therefore, that it's the sigil of her employers, and that they must be a faction that hasn't been seen before. It would be unspeakably lame to reveal that actually, that's the symbol of the bondsmagi or the Spider (not to mention it has pretty much no obvious symbolic connection to either).

Add that to the arguments above and I think we can consider that one closed. Merrain works for Faction X, someone we haven't met before but will again.

I was sceptical about the reality of the poison. It would have been such a great twist to have Locke and Jean taken in by a simple confidence trick, I wanted it to be true. ;) And the initial reaction of the alchemist made me hope - he seemed taken aback by the request for the antidote, but then he produced it. And Merrain certainly believes in the poison's existence - so long as you think she's just a Stragos henchwoman that could be just her going on his word, but when you realise she's a spy for someone else, you tend to think she must have some information to make her believe it.

I rather hoped Ezri would survive and go on with the boys, but yeah, once the scene was set with the alchemical device the heroic sacrifice was predictable. Still brought a tear to my eye though. :(

I liked the ending, by the way. Requin has the last laugh on the boys. ;) They're much more fallible in this book.

[Errant Bard]

I finished it some days ago, and liked it a lot.

However, there are some points that made it slightly less enjoyable than LLL for me :

It lacked the emotional power Lies had. I know that we were supposed to feel for Ezri the same as we did for Callo, Galdo and Bug, but the surprise element was not there this time. There was noone with the presence and charm of a Capa Barsavi, or Nazca. I attribute this mostly to the reduced characterization, with overcomplicated parallel scheme taking the place of Lie’s flashbacks and day-to-day scenes.

It had unecessary storylines, or at least, chapters. I really could not really get into the whole Salon Corbeau stuff, it felt too singular, as the only thing that is described outside of Tal Verrar or the Poison Orchid. The Focus on Requin felt a bit too much also, considering what it amounted to in the end, compared to the stakes on the whole pirate affair.

It lacked some ornaments things LLL had, notably the cooking and brewing, the unusual scenes showing the heroes being themselves, so to speak. Something like the bit with the cats, but expanded.

On the other hand I liked the swashbuckling feel of the pirate story, or how Locke is almost consistently outwitted. The mysterious islands were just perfect, too. Not too much exposition, fit right there with the sailor stories lore, and add that nice layer of magic on the world.

And sea battles are just cool if you imagine Locke as Eroll Flynn, of course.

The ending, like in Lies, had that pleasant Noir feel to it, too, with everything put to right, except the heroes are slightly more fucked than at the beginning of the book.

This being said, I’m eagerly awaiting some resolution on the Bondsmage problem. Apparently we get that and Sabetha in the next book, so it’s bound to be a good one. Maybe this time, after a caper and a swashbuckling book, we’ll get a Sam Spade one. I could see Locke beginning the book with "sometines, when I step into my office, it feels like walking into the ruins of an old civilization. Not because of the mess in it, but because it looks like relics of the civilized being I was a long time ago.". Then a femme fatale enters...

[mormont]

One thing I found slightly odd was the behaviour of the Bondsmagi - to me, it seemed that they were simply messing with Jean and Locke's lives in a rather petty manner, where I had been expecting them to descend on the boys in full wrath. Yes, putting them in Stragos' clutches was likely to be fatal, but it's hardly what we were led to expect in terms of Bondsmagi vengeance. Too indirect, too impersonal, and too unreliable.

I could come up with a variety of reasons for this:

a) Locke and Jean didn't actually kill the Falconer. (A technicality, but maybe enough to keep them from full-on 'revenge' mode.)

B) nobody knows what they did do to him, so the Bondsmagi are interested in keeping it quiet.

c) they're just biding their time, maybe because it amuses them to do so.

d) internal politics amongst the Bondsmagi.

Clearly, the Bondsmagi could have killed the boys, in the Night Market: they have the power to do it, so there must be some reason to hold back, even if it's just sadism.

[Errant Bard]

I seem to remember Scott saying in a past thread that Bondsmagi were not as united as they seemed, in response to a similar query.

The mages in the market scene more or less confirm this when they say their revenge is personal, not official.

There is probably some sort of magus technicality preventing the use of direct force if not contracted or threatened.

[Werthead]

I could come up with a variety of reasons for this:

a) Locke and Jean didn't actually kill the Falconer. (A technicality, but maybe enough to keep them from full-on 'revenge' mode.)

B) nobody knows what they did do to him, so the Bondsmagi are interested in keeping it quiet.

c) they're just biding their time, maybe because it amuses them to do so.

d) internal politics amongst the Bondsmagi.

Clearly, the Bondsmagi could have killed the boys, in the Night Market: they have the power to do it, so there must be some reason to hold back, even if it's just sadism.

[Lupigis]

I remember two sections that were posted online that never appeared in the book. The one your referring to was the battle against the Dread Soveriegn, only it was rewritten since the original post I think. The second piece that wasn't in the books was a Zamira/Jean conversation I think, in which she revealed more about her past.

[delete this account pls]

I wondered if maybe there isn't a secret guild or cabal of Illusionists out there somewhere, and that's who Merrain was working for. The Archon seemed set on taking the Bondsmagi down a peg or two, and an organisation of persecuted Illusionists would definitely want to support that effort.

Whatever the truth is, I think Merrain's employers will be a big part of the overarching storyline of the series that Lynch has hinted at.

I liked the ending, by the way. Requin has the last laugh on the boys. ;) They're much more fallible in this book.