Harry Potter 7 (aka Potterclypse)

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Regina -

About altering her memory, I don't know. Has it ever been used that way before? To make Muggles forget about magic they've seen, yes (IIRC), but to forget a traumatic event? In any case, it strikes me as a bit 'My Sweet Audrina'-ish if they'd've done that to her.

[Innominandum]

There are only two requirments for a Great book.

Is it very very popular?

And does it stay very veyr popular?

So wiht yoru dfeiintion of a graet book, it is posisble to craete a grate boku manily wthi mraketnig.

[Mr. X]

But I could go on and on about how stupid and lame many parts of this book were and how flawed the writing and plot turned out. But I think you do have to remember that this is a book primarily intended for Children/Teenagers and despite the flaws there is a big kid inside of me that absolutely loved it

Well put. I also agree with the majority of what Aratan said here. I thought it was a good, enjoyable read. Plot holes? Yes. A few convenient solutions to sticky problems that came seemingly out of nowhere? Yup. Sappy ending? But fun all the same.

My favorite parts were Snape being redeemed in the big flashback chapter and Neville getting to do some ass-kicking.

[Mya Stone]

For those who are having a hard time understanding why Neville could pull Gryffindor's sword out of the sorting hat...

In CoS, when Harry does the same thing, Dumbledore tells him "Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that sword out of the hat." (or something like that) Do you not think that Godric Gryffindor, one of the 4 founders of Hogwarts, would have found an enchantment or spell that would have worked over "Goblin built weaponry"?

Neville's actions in books 5-7 prove that there is no way he is NOT a true Gryffindor. He was braver than brave, did not back down in the face of danger, and was loyal to his friends. Of course the sword could be "called" by him in a time of need. (Yes, even if the goblin took the sword - they have different views on ownership, remember? Goblin-made, goblin owned after the death of the original owner. Humans pass things along generation to generation.)

Just my thoughts.

[Xanrn]

@Lann yeah thats why I said she is going to get spammed with e-mail. Far too many unanswered questions at the end.

So how long before she announces her next book?

How much you want to bet its something to do with Harry. She has 19 years to play around with and then there is his kids.

[caillean]

Can I just mention, as a long time lurker of these boards, that I sincerely hope this forum never closes off to protect itself from the public? All the biggest Harry Potter discussion boards are all locked away, or not accepting new members, and I find this incredibly frustrating. I realize they have some really large concerns to deal with here - trolls are an evil, evil beastie ... and yet, I feel bad for the HP community that their forums (in some cases) are actually shut down on this most momentous weekend for the fandom.

And, yes, I realize that, sadly, ASOIAF is not on Harry Potter levels of public scrutiny, so we don't have to worry about these concerns... but ... still ...

[Altherion]

1. Fiendfyre (and things like it). Crabbe used that destroyed the tiara horcrux. I mean WTF? We never hear one rumor about this super powerful spell, then bam it’s there. Then Hermione gives the very lame explanation “oh well he must have learned it in schoolâ€. There seemed to be a lot of things like that. It just appears in the 7th book even though you would think that it would have been mentioned before. (Another shining example of this is the Elderwand no one is going to mention a super powerful and undefeatable wand?).

You view the world through the eyes of a teenager who is not particularly adept at magical lore (he has Herminone for that). It is inevitable that he runs into things he hasn't seen before. Besides, Fiendfyre is not exactly the brightest move to make in a desperate situation; Crabbe's fate illustrates that.

2. Gingrotts seemed laughably simple to both break into and destroy. Any Hogwarts graduate can break in. And how the frick did Neville pull the sword out of the hat at the end?

Any break in becomes easy when you have an insider working for you. But the point is not that it is impossible to break into and destroy; you'd need an army to prevent such an action by a sizable force. The point is that it is difficult for somebody to steal from and walk away unnoticed. If somebody tried what Harry & Co. pulled off under other circumstances, they'd have the entire Ministry of Magic plus all of the goblins on their tail. If it was mere gold they were after, they'd never get a chance to use it.

Neville pulled the sword out of the hat the same way Harry did in Chamber of Secrets. The sword was Griffindor's and the Sorting Hat also belonged to him. Griffindor must have enchanted his hat to retrieve his sword whenever somebody sufficiently similar to him needed it. He might have even foreseen that the goblins might try to take it back after his death and decided to have a laugh at their expense.

3. Harry and Ginny is in my mind one of the most cringe worthiest parts of the book. It was like she forgot about the love interest until book six. But apparently after years of knowing her and dating her for like a month, he realized she was the ONE.

They knew each other for years and she had a crush on him since at least book 2. But you're right, most of the romance is off-screen.

I think it is because some parts of the book seemed like they where written by a less talented author. These are parts of the book that seemed forced, or cheesy, or not up to the standard some have come to expect from JKR.

I don't know, I thought the standard was more or less the same throughout. It is not brilliant literature or even entirely consistent, but it is a pretty good modern fairy tale.

[Regina]

Regina -

About altering her memory, I don't know. Has it ever been used that way before? To make Muggles forget about magic they've seen, yes (IIRC), but to forget a traumatic event? In any case, it strikes me as a bit 'My Sweet Audrina'-ish if they'd've done that to her.

I don't know if memory charms have ever been used in exactly that way, although don't they do that to Muggles that survive being caught and tormented by Death Eaters? It just seems like there would be no need to let the memories of that event destroy her life (and the lives of her whole family). :cry:

[Aplomb]

I wasn't truly disappointed but I did feel a bit unsatisfied by this book. Since there isn't more coming, somehow the plot holes and inconsistent characterizations stick out much more, because we know they won't get filled in or explained later.

Some random stuff that bugged me:

This was the only book where Rowling's formula of stretching the plot to fill most of an entire year didn't really work. In the previous books you could ascribe weeks and months of inaction to the fact the kids were busy with school stuff. Here, we had the kids hanging around in a tent for months on end making glacial progress, and even Voldemort spent most of the year doing very little after achieving his coup. Everyone would have looked a lot less like dumbasses if the story was compressed into two or three months time.

Pettigrew's death -- so the second he loses his wand and is defenseless his silver hand goes for the kill? Has he never put down the wand to, say, go to sleep in the last few years?

The Elder Wand -- even if it decided Draco earned it by disarming Dumbledore, it's just ridiculous to think it decided Harry earned it when he disarmed Draco of an entirely different wand. I can't believe Rowling couldn't come up with something better than that.

What was Kreacher doing at Hogwarts? Harry never freed him or told him to go there.

I didn't mind Fred's death that much, he died nobly and some favorite characters had to die along the way. I was pissed to see in the epilogue that while Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione were cranking out kids left and right, none of them are named Fred. I can see why there is a new James Potter and a new Lily Potter, and even Albus Potter, but seriously Ron, you thought we needed a Hugo Weasley instead of a Fred Weasley, named after your older brother who unquestionably rushed to your aid and gave his life?

A few things I expected to be cleared up from earlier books weren't, really. The main ones include what happened in the 24 hour period between Harry's parents death and his delivery to the Dursleys (the Hagrid on Sirius' bike business) and exactly what's up with that veil Sirius fell though (where's the body?)

I did really like some stuff. The Snape flashback wasn't real surprising but I enjoyed it anyway (although I was disappointed by his death, I wanted to see a fight). Neville kicked butt, especially using dangerous plant attacks, heh.

I think I laughed loudest at the scene in the forest, where Voldemort is sort of morosely hanging out, telling his followers, "Gee, everyone, I really thought he was going to show up." For some reason I found that pretty funny.

[Altherion]

Pettigrew's death -- so the second he loses his wand and is defenseless his silver hand goes for the kill? Has he never put down the wand to, say, go to sleep in the last few years?

The issue was not that he lost his wand, it's that he betrayed his master -- if only for an instant.

What was Kreacher doing at Hogwarts? Harry never freed him or told him to go there.

The house elves are not that enslaved -- recall Dobby in the Chamber of Secrets; the Malfoys did not order him to help Harry. As long as Harry didn't tell Kreacher not to go there, he could act of his own volition.

[Houndred]

Lots of good points here I agree with.

Hedwig :cry:

Finding out what Snape's Patronus was really touched me for some reason. Too bad he dies so easily, wtf? Can't fight a snake?

Not Believable:3 teenagers, alone in a tent, for weeks on end, and NO hints of sexual tension until the whole Locket thing? Come ON. Ron and Hermoine should have been making out every time Harry had his watch...

We never got any hints about the "famous" battle DUmbledoor was in or his sister in previous books. Why?

Last bit about their offspring :sick: I could barely read it. I'd be more impressed if Harry was the Headmaster of Hogworts or something not some lame suburban parent/soccer mom.

Overall it was okay but man, what a lot of holes. And impossible to make a good movie out of it without some serious slice and dice.

My bet is Rowling will *try* to write non Harry Potter based books but everything she writes being compared to Harry Potter (in a negative way), so then she goes and writes a book about Tonk's and Lupin's kid whose name escapes me.

edit:snape not sanpe

[Thynessa Reed]

sorry double post

[Thynessa Reed]

"Perhaps we sort to soon" says Albus Dumbledore.

Am I the only one who thought that particular remark was an extremely patronising load of old hoke that did no service to Severus Snape or Albus Dumbledore?

Snape should have punched the git on the nose a la Aberforth for intimating thathe, Snape was too courageous for Slytherin and should have been in Gryffindor where all the brave noble-minded souls are sorted into. And all this just pages after we learn that Snape aspired to be in Slytherin from the time he was a nipper - and also thoroughout the series indicated that he never wanted to be anything else but a Slytherin. Hard to imagine him being filled with pride by Dumbledore's ujnconsidered and biased-to-the-end remark. What's wrong with saying something like - well nobody ever said Slytherins weren't made of staunch stuff - or words to that effect, huh?

Otherwise I liked it.

[Arataniello]

1. Fiendfyre (and things like it). Crabbe used that destroyed the tiara horcrux. I mean WTF? We never hear one rumor about this super powerful spell, then bam it’s there. Then Hermione gives the very lame explanation “oh well he must have learned it in school”.

Somewhere it is stated that at Hogwarts they are not learning Defense against the Dark Arts, they are learning _actual_ Dark Arts. I want to believe that Fiendfyre is something that was taught while the trio were not at school this year.

Aratan

[Maltaran]

but seriously Ron, you thought we needed a Hugo Weasley instead of a Fred Weasley, named after your older brother who unquestionably rushed to your aid and gave his life?

George would almost certainly veto that suggestion, IMO.

[Not another Stark]

I disagree with thsoe hwo dismiss this obok as not possibly being GREAT literature or Rowling a GREAT writer.

There is no... repeat NO objective way to rate great writing. People who claim otherwise are just Ivy Tower Elitists who make me sick to my stomach.

All there is, is for eahc individual person, oboks they PERSONALLY find to be great. I find it SICKENING and OFFENSIVE when people claim that because THEY and THEIR friends have a view on a book nto beign great (or antoher being so) that it MUST be.

There are only two requirments for a Great book.

Is it very very popular?

And does it stay very veyr popular?

ITs disgusting.

Te height of elitism

Beare, Os, you are going into the liberal-commie sins of cultural relativism. You know, that thing where everything is valuable and unique and beautiful, even if it's a pile of dung.

I mean, what the fuck is wrong with elitism?

[Lupigis]

Like most books I read, I read the HP books for entertainment, and I found this one more entertaining than many of the others (definitely more than books 5 and 6). For the first time ever, the bad guys felt genuinely scary (at least some of the times) and the good guys were really in trouble.

I don't mind the plot holes so much, if you have been reading all seven books you should be used to them by now.

I would have liked a real Harry-Snape showdown, and could have done without the Snape and Dumbledore infodump chapters at the end, and the epilogue was obviously a complete waste of paper. Other than that I feel that the last book was a worthy end to the series!

[Guarneri]

Saying writing is purely objective is bullshit.

Writing is an art and craft above all else, and there is a method to the madness, which many writers spend their entire life studying and perfecting. There are objective elements, and bias, but things such as characterization, prose, intrigue, complexity, world-building, and plot, are things which can be studied, analyzed, and broken into segments to understand how they work.

You can say, "Well I like Bob more than Steve, because Bob's name is better" or some such bias, yes. But characterization, as in how fully developed the character is, is a science of sort. You can decide you hate the character, but how well it is wrought can be analyzed.

Personal bias plays a role, yes, but I am talking about skill of writing. Something which has a sort of science to it, and can be picked apart to death when you really want to.

One could endlessly analyze why JKR's prose is shit, from the sheer use of repetition of phrases, words, and imagery, lack of precise and stream-lined use of imagery to provoke distinct images in the most conservative fashion, as well as vividness of word choice for settings, atmosphere, and characterization. She seriously lacks flow in her imagery, for one thing, failing to seamlessly link things when describing them, so that some passages seem clunky and awkward. Her lack of synonyms often causes certain passages to stand out. (In one case she used 'bedroom door' like twice in the same sentence, which could've easily been prevented by changing the imagery or using alternative words/descriptions).

How to evoke strong emotion from a scene, to inspire fear and heartbreak, all of these things are triggered by our own human psychology, yes, but the triggers are in the work itself, and those triggers have functions and methods which can be tweaked in subtle ways for precise feelings or thoughts. These things can be analyzed paragraph by paragraph and word by word. There is tons of bias involved in literature, yes, but there is also a present skill of the craft in the work, so that if even one dislikes a work of art due to personal bias, they can admit and admire the deftness and expertise involved in the workmanship.

[Arakasi]

Senshou this is a thread about discussing the latest Potter book. If you want to discuss Rowling vs Martin start a new thread. Leave this thread for people who actually want to converse about the book.

[Guarneri]

Senshou this is a thread about discussing the latest Potter book. If you want to discuss Rowling vs Martin start a new thread. Leave this thread for people who actually want to converse about the book.

I wrote a Martin vs JKR post?

Geez, people keep knowing more about what I say than I do.

Thanks for the tip!

Oh wait, never once mentioned Martin vs JKR in that post. Damn. Pretty sure I was responding to a post about the objectivity of the series, and thus it definitely does relate to the new book, and thread.