Harry Potter 7 (aka Potterclypse)

[Tanaqui]

Like a couple people here, I was reading asoiaf right before I read DH, so that did nothing for JK's prose, but overall I was satisfied. Though I know the epilogue will undoubtedly spawn oodles of bad fanfic.

One of my favorite little parts in the book is when it is implied that Petunia sent a letter to Dumbledore, begging him to let her go to Hogwarts. As someone who started these books when I was 10 or so, I know that reminded me of that tiny part of me wishing I would get a letter in green ink on my 11th birthday (come on, what kid wouldn't want to be a wizard?) I thought that was really bittersweet.

I agree with those who thought Snape should have had more, er, screen time. I liked the flashback chapter, though. I also thought it would have been interesting if there had been another chapter taking place at the Malfoy house, like the first chapter. I mean, Draco could have become a great conflicted character...if he had more than 5 lines of dialogue. I expected more out of him after HBP. Something from his perspective would've been cool, though perhaps too much of a departure from the usual Harry-or-third-person POV used in all the books. Ah well.

[Eponine]

Manticore. Let me try to chime in here. Because from what I read of your debate, a major facate of the Slytherin/Grif dynamic is being overlooked.

Namely, that Voldemort has corrupted the entire house system.

Slughorn isn't so much an example of what a "good" Slyth is.... as he is an example of what a pre voldemort Slyth was like.

And Harry is not so much an example of a "good" Grif, as he is an example of a post Voldemort Grif.

I'm impressed with Os' explanation of the reason for sorting houses. I wonder if they will be able to go back to what they were before Voldemort though.

However, I realize that this was necessary to advance the plot from the very beginning, but it does seem as if grouping children by personality traits and then having them eat together, room together, go to class together, and compete against other houses is a bit of overkill. Because it's not a society in which adult roles are completely determined. Within the Ministry of Magic, many different types of wizards and witches have to work together. Percy was a Grif, and he's doing pedantic work by choice. Neville, although certainly brave in danger, is more like a Hufflepuff the rest of the time. Exposure and cooperation between different houses as students seems like it would enhance necessary cooperation between working adults, even though they might have different types of jobs based on personality.

Weighing in on Slughorn: IMO He was a generally good, eventually brave person. Even before the battle, he didn’t want anything to do with Death Eaters (he said outright in the last book that Malfoy hadn’t been invited to his Slugclub because it wasn’t for people friendly toward Voldemort), he was repentant for giving Tom Riddle the information he did- and he didn't do it to promote evil, and he did not seem to have Mudblood prejudices, as he accepted Hermione immediately.

What makes him especially brave for coming back and fighting Voldemort (and he was one of the people dueling Voldemort directly at the end) is that he was probably in the best possible position to run and hide until the battle was over and then pretend he had always supported the winning side. There was absolutely no reason for him to come back and fight except a true desire to defeat Voldemort.

[Moshe Goldberg Rubinshteyn]

Am I the only one who can see the sequel? For once, the resurrection stone just lies around to be picked up. Second, any jerk can pick up the Elder Wand from the grave and at some convenient point in time stun Harry to get possession of it (and nick the cloak as well). Probably we'll see 'Albus Severus Potter and Scorpius Malfoy the evil but incompetent overlord of doom' in a couple of years.

In general, I think it was ok, not great, but not horrible. I didn't like the continuity errors and plot holes. Also, for this book to work, it is too Harry centered. It started off well, with a real feeling of danger. The ambush at the departing, the fall of the MM, the wedding crashers. The near escape from the ministry raid. Also, I thought the handling of Dumbledore's past was good together with the ambush at Godric's Hollow, Luna's place, and the desperation of the trio including Harry's decision whether to follow the Hallows or the Horcruces, ah, and Dobby's funeral.

Sadly from there it went all downhill. First, the accidental encouter with Dean and the Goblins. Harry's mistake which led to their capture, and the easy escape from Malfoy's which gives them the next clue. The raid on Gringotts (way too simple), the next clue picked up straight from Voldemort's mind etc. Plotwise, it went down to the level of the first book.

The end was handled horribly. Most has been said here. It all hinged on some obscure piece of wandlore which was mostly inconsistent with anything we had seen in the past. How often have we seen the disarm spell without wands changing hands? Harry survived another AK because he doesn't engage in a duel? The whole Christian sacrifice+resurrection theme. The Elder Wand recognizing Harry as its master? How comes that the 'awsome ueber-wand of power' had changed hands so often in the past anyway? How comes Grindelwald lost it against DD when it wins every duel? Can't have been such a great wand after all. Also the deaths in the end were inconsequential. Everything felt incredibly rushed including the infodumps. Snape's chapter felt a little like Rand in Rhuidean (sp), DD's chapter was similar to the station in the Matrix, the house elves did go all Ewok on the deatheaters. And Neville goes Jedi on the snake. Not a great finale for a book (it's great for the movie adaptation though).

The series as a whole is interesting. However, greater care should have been taken to make it consistent and the plotting more believable. I suspect, the later works were edited very little and the author had too much freedom which led to some of the problems. The first three books were great. There was a little more lightheartedness and they were obviously geared for younger children which made me forgive the plot holes. The later books suffer from the huge popularity. Obviously fans started to pick every sentence apart which made Rowling try to be too clever (I call it the Robert Jordan curse). The latter books are decidedly too long, they are geared for young adults, however, the basis of the earlier three books is too weak and porous, so in the end the series as a whole falls apart. If I had to judge the books relative to their intended audience, I'd give 5 out of 6 for the first three books (these are the true children books), and maybe 4 out of 6 (3/6 for OOTP and DH) for the last four 'young adult' books.

All in all I enjoyed reading it, but in the long run when the hype dies down, I am afraid, it will be an entirely forgettable series.

[Mauvka]

Voldemort should have checked the evil overlord list

Haha, it might be interesting to see just how Voldemort stacks up against the list!

The Smart Decisions

3&4. He did quite well with shooting (killing curses) at his enemies, and not keeping disgruntled family members/old enemies around alive

5. "The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness." He did store the Horcrux in a safety deposit box at Gringotts bank...and it still didn't work!

6. " will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them." I thought Voldemort saying "I have nothing more to say to you, Potter...Avada Kedavra!" in HP5 was rather cool and succinct in light of this.

11. "I will be secure in my superiority..not leave clues or riddles" Again, not too bad

44. "I will only employ bounty hunters who work for money. Those who work for the pleasure of the hunt tend to do dumb things like even the odds to give the other guy a sporting chance." Looks like an approval of the Snatchers--and they did succeed in capturing Harry and co, after all.

47. "If I learn that a callow youth has begun a quest to destroy me, I will slay him while he is still a callow youth instead of waiting for him to mature" Can't say he didn't try...many, many times.

48. "I will treat any beast which I control through magic or technology with respect and kindness. Thus if the control is ever broken, it will not immediately come after me for revenge." DD did say Voldemort related more to the Snake than to any human...

The Mistakes

1. well, he did go for face concealing masks, but that kind of makes sense, given his strategy

13. "All slain enemies will be cremated, or at least have several rounds of ammunition emptied into them, not left for dead at the bottom of the cliff. The announcement of their deaths, as well as any accompanying celebration, will be deferred until after the aforementioned disposal." As Scott A Ellison said, big mistake, there, esp. when Harry has already survived the AK curse once before.

20. "I will not indulge in maniacal laughter" bad, bad habit, Voldy;)

24. "I will maintain a realistic assessment of my strengths and weaknesses. Even though this takes some of the fun out of the job, at least I will never utter the line "No, this cannot be! I AM INVINCIBLE!!!" (After that, death is usually instantaneous.)" And when your enemy spends several pages explaining just why you aren't in fact invincible, it couldn't have hurt you to listen. Really.

29. "I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion." Now wouldn't it have been great if Voldemort looked to Xeno Lovegood for some fashion sense?

36. "I will not imprison members of the same party in the same cell block, let alone the same cell." Another opportunity for victory squandered. However, Bellatrix is to blame for this one.

57. "Before employing any captured artifacts or machinery, I will carefully read the owner's manual." same as 24, in this case, though, admittedly, there is no owners manual for the Elder Wand.

78. "I will not tell my Legions of Terror "And he must be taken alive!" The command will be "And try to take him alive if it is reasonably practical."" haha. Fell for that one too.

all in all, while not brilliant, I don't think Voldemort did too badly.

Also, wouldn't it be great to have an alternate Forbidden Forest scene where, Harry faces Voldemort unarmed, and in the last moment remembers what Harmione said to him about him having a hero complex, and realizing that he just made a stupid, stupid mistake. Then there is the flash of green light. oops.

[Stego]

Neville's grandmother being proud of him was th best part of the book.

"Of course he is."

I about cried.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Stego,

That was a good moment. I also liked when Harry's Mom, Dad, Sirus, and Lupin were walking with Harry toward LV. That just tore me up.

Polaris,

Scorpius Malfoy the evil but incompetent overlord of doom' â„¢

With a name like "Scorpius" he will be anything but incompetent. Scorpius is about the best "Villian" I've ever seen portrayed on screen.

[Angalin]

Neville's grandmother being proud of him was th best part of the book.

"Of course he is."

I about cried.

I did cry.

[Geddon]

I enjoyed it for the most part. I thought some things were handled poorly (the epilogue is particularly disappointing) and some scenes I'd hoped for were missing but overall I thought it was as good a conclusion to the series as could be expected.

I'm starting to think that it's almost impossible to write a truly satisfying conclusion to a multi-book series, and that the difficulty must increase exponentially with each additional book added. Even trilogies seem to introduce enough characters and separate plot threads to make it difficult for the author to provide decent closure for them all in the last book. Rather than criticising JKR for what she left out I'm more inclined to praise her for making book 7 as satisfying as it was.

I have to admit to being a bit depressed now, knowing that there are no more HP books to come.

[Teri]

IDid you notice Rowling sneaked in a dirty joke? Ron gives Harry his birthday present:

At least two. There was something later about men always competing about who has the bigger wand. I don't have the book with me so can't quote it.

I overall thought the book did a pretty good job. The only thing I was really disappointed on was not having more from Voldemort's POV. There was so much back story for him built up in Half Blood Prince that just seemed to get dropped and go nowhere.

(And I have a soft spot for Riddles, since I am descended from both of two twin Riddle sisters.)

[Peregrinus]

For all those who are convinced that the relationship between Ginny and Harry suddenly sprung forth in HBP I refer you to this essay...

sugarquill.net

[Lupigis]

The first three books were great. There was a little more lightheartedness and they were obviously geared for younger children which made me forgive the plot holes. The later books suffer from the huge popularity. Obviously fans started to pick every sentence apart which made Rowling try to be too clever (I call it the Robert Jordan curse). The latter books are decidedly too long, they are geared for young adults, however, the basis of the earlier three books is too weak and porous, so in the end the series as a whole falls apart.

My thoughts exactly!!!

(ETA: Perhaps "falls apart" is a bit too strong for my taste, but I do agree with your basic assesment of the first three books versus the last four.)

[L'Sana]

Overall, I liked it. I liked it a lot, actually. I found it a more satisfying end to a series than any that I've read since LOTR. Of course, I read epic fantasy, which means I haven't seen a lot of endings, but I thought this one was far better than the last books to the other series I've read that have finished in the past couple of years. Action was, for the most part, consistent with clues laid out in previous books, and yet the entire book didn't feel like a seven hundred page way of saying, "We execute this plan. It all works perfectly.

Very few "final books" in a series really tie up their threads very well. I thought this one was decent at it at least.

I also want to differ from everyone else in thinking that the body count was on the high side of what I was expecting. It wasn't the red wedding, but 7 major characters is quite a few for a kids' book. Heck, more major characters died in this "children's" book than in all 11 Wheel of Time books put together.

My complaints:

1. Pretty much what everyone else was saying about the Elder Wand and its One True Wielder (WTF?) as well as the Deathly Hollows coming out of left field (never once in the previous 6 years did we get any sort of hint that there was anything particularly special about Harry's cloak).

2. The epilogue, in which we learn that Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione got together. And their kids go to Hogwarts. Because, gee George, I couldn't have predicted that was going to happen. I didn't actively dislike it, the way I did the "Susannah in New York" part of Dark Tower, but if there was going to be an epilogue at all, I would have preferred for it to tell me something that I didn't know, like a little bit about the trio's future careers, or rebuilding the Ministry of Magic (or not), or how various characters that I did know were coping with the loss.

3. Why was Dean Thomas the only Muggle-born student who felt the need to go on the run? Most of the others that we know of--Colin Creevey, Lavender Brown, etc.--were still at Hogwarts and seemed to have been doing as well as everyone else.

4. The lack of any "good" Slytherins other than Slughorn, Snape, and the late RAB. There ought to have been one or two, out of the 7 years of Slytherin students, who were willing to fight for the good side.

All in all, though, I thought its merits outweighed its flaws.

[BLU-RAY]

Haha, it might be interesting to see just how Voldemort stacks up against the list!

The Smart Decisions

3&4. He did quite well with shooting (killing curses) at his enemies, and not keeping disgruntled family members/old enemies around alive

5. "The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness." He did store the Horcrux in a safety deposit box at Gringotts bank...and it still didn't work!

6. " will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them." I thought Voldemort saying "I have nothing more to say to you, Potter...Avada Kedavra!" in HP5 was rather cool and succinct in light of this.

11. "I will be secure in my superiority..not leave clues or riddles" Again, not too bad

44. "I will only employ bounty hunters who work for money. Those who work for the pleasure of the hunt tend to do dumb things like even the odds to give the other guy a sporting chance." Looks like an approval of the Snatchers--and they did succeed in capturing Harry and co, after all.

47. "If I learn that a callow youth has begun a quest to destroy me, I will slay him while he is still a callow youth instead of waiting for him to mature" Can't say he didn't try...many, many times.

48. "I will treat any beast which I control through magic or technology with respect and kindness. Thus if the control is ever broken, it will not immediately come after me for revenge." DD did say Voldemort related more to the Snake than to any human...

The Mistakes

1. well, he did go for face concealing masks, but that kind of makes sense, given his strategy

13. "All slain enemies will be cremated, or at least have several rounds of ammunition emptied into them, not left for dead at the bottom of the cliff. The announcement of their deaths, as well as any accompanying celebration, will be deferred until after the aforementioned disposal." As Scott A Ellison said, big mistake, there, esp. when Harry has already survived the AK curse once before.

20. "I will not indulge in maniacal laughter" bad, bad habit, Voldy;)

24. "I will maintain a realistic assessment of my strengths and weaknesses. Even though this takes some of the fun out of the job, at least I will never utter the line "No, this cannot be! I AM INVINCIBLE!!!" (After that, death is usually instantaneous.)" And when your enemy spends several pages explaining just why you aren't in fact invincible, it couldn't have hurt you to listen. Really.

29. "I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion." Now wouldn't it have been great if Voldemort looked to Xeno Lovegood for some fashion sense?

36. "I will not imprison members of the same party in the same cell block, let alone the same cell." Another opportunity for victory squandered. However, Bellatrix is to blame for this one.

57. "Before employing any captured artifacts or machinery, I will carefully read the owner's manual." same as 24, in this case, though, admittedly, there is no owners manual for the Elder Wand.

78. "I will not tell my Legions of Terror "And he must be taken alive!" The command will be "And try to take him alive if it is reasonably practical."" haha. Fell for that one too.

all in all, while not brilliant, I don't think Voldemort did too badly.

Also, wouldn't it be great to have an alternate Forbidden Forest scene where, Harry faces Voldemort unarmed, and in the last moment remembers what Harmione said to him about him having a hero complex, and realizing that he just made a stupid, stupid mistake. Then there is the flash of green light. oops.

You forgot: 34. I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.

I think that might be the funniest one on the list.

But yeah, the epilogue... the only good part is when Harry calls Snape "the bravest man I have ever known" or whatever. Rest of that thing is tripe.

[DemiNymph]

Eh, I hate people who say that the major points were predictable, eg, snape loves lily, Harry was a horcrux, snape was a good guy. Then they are the same people who turn around and complain that some plot elements come out of nowhere. WTF? Which one do you dislike more? You want the author to plant some elements here and there or not?

If it is predictable, that is called foreshadowing, the author has planted some elements in the earlier books so that you can guess it. Are you going to diss Martin if it really turns out that R+L = J and call the series predictable? Honestly, I have more beef with the deus ex machina parts, but I'll just let it slide as I enjoyed the HP series very much, and really, that is the point of reading for me, the enjoyment.

[DemiNymph]

Anyway, I have a question. Why was Tonk's dad targeted? He was a muggle, not a wizard and not a "mudblood" like Hermione. Was it because he has integrated into the Magical community?

[Angalin]

Anyway, I have a question. Why was Tonk's dad targeted? He was a muggle, not a wizard and not a "mudblood" like Hermione. Was it because he has integrated into the Magical community?

I thought he was a mudblood, actually. No time to check right now though.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Yep, Ted's listed as a muggle-born wizard. He used magic to heal Harry (iirc) after the flight from 4 Privet Drive.

[DemiNymph]

Ok, but in OotP Tonks said her mum gave her dad a fright when she revealed she was a witch. So I always thought he was a muggle?

[Moshe Goldberg Rubinshteyn]

My thoughts exactly!!!

(ETA: Perhaps "falls apart" is a bit too strong for my taste, but I do agree with your basic assesment of the first three books versus the last four.)

Thanks for the nice words.

Some time ago (maybe last year), I delved a little into HP essays (the ones on the big fansites are too much hit-and-miss for my taste). But there're a few sites where the author put quite a bit of thought into it. The one I started to read is called RedHen. It is not that I particularly agree with too much of it or that I recommend to read it (most of it is unorganized stream of coscience and way too long), but one cannot deny that the author made quite an effort. Anyway, the essays show two things: When looking at all books on the same level, the author 'has to' overanalyze the first three books (sometimes I wanted to scream that the books were intended to be read by pre-teens, there isn't that much going on backstage as the author tries to construct), also they show how little the books hang together.

Although I think Rowling had the plan laid out from book 1-7 beforehand, I think it soon became clear to her that the success meant she had to take up the plotting by several notches. The plotting of the latter books is far more intricate. On the other hand, some of the 'cop-outs' from the earlier books (timeturner, prophecy etc.) had to be removed or downplayed in the latter books. On the other hand, some ideas which were in the early books were not picked up by the latter ones (yeah, you could call those red herrings, but in reality those are unused Chekhov's guns, a grave literary blunder). Now I don't want to be too negative. Rowling was an unpublished author and nobody could have foreseen the huge popularity with which came the need for (I presume) unforeseen changes. I think the series is a great achievement (especially since she finished the series at all), but there are huge holes in the writing, plotting, worldbuilding, characterization etc. which cannot be overlooked in a young adult series. Maybe if she had stuck more to the original plan (if there was one) which was a series for preteens (I guess), it would have become a greater literary work, albeit a smaller commercial success.

What worries me is when you consider all this in light of the appearant lack of planning concerning Martin's ASoIaF. It seems to me that when you have to change in mid-series, not much good can come out of it. Probably the best way to write a long, connected series would be to write everything at once so your hand is not forced by something which is published in the first or second book (this is Tolkien's way, which makes for few publications and many unfinished works). I think this is the problem of most long series and I'm afraid, GRRM has written himself into a spot of trouble as well. The way out is either blatant disregard for your previous writing (taking into account continuity errors, i.e., the Rowling way) or the progress of the series comes to a grinding halt in order to shuffle characters, plotlines etc. around and introducing more and more stuff left, right and center so that everyone gets utterly confused until the grand finale (the Jordan way). I hope GRRM does better, but AFFC didn't exactly fuel my hopes, neither does the delay getting ADwD out.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

DN - when Sirius is going over the Black family tree with Harry apparently he says Andromeda was blasted off for marrying a Muggle-born. (Still looking for a page reference, but sites say Chapter 6.)

So maybe she startled him, all right, but not because he was ignorant of magic.