Mysterious Character: "the Liddle"

[kephv]

Can anyone remember any passages where he may have been killed? I remember reading that Roose believed Ramsay poisoned his only trueborn son, Domeric. Maybe Ramsay is Domeric reborn as an Other?

Unlikely. And he was 'killed', as in Reek was killed dressed up as Ramsay - which was why they thought he was dead.

[redriver]

Great thread folks.Who would have thought there were so many plot implications and ramifications from that brief encounter with Mr A Liddle?

My take is that the northern clans are happy to back Stannis as a better option than Boltons,Freys or Karstarks.If he takes Winterfell,then Liddle can confirm Bran's escape,Manderly can confirm Rickon's,and Theon can back it up,if pressed.

Of course,that they escaped would not mean they are still alive in Stannis' mind.

Stannis could name Bran Lord of Winterfell and appoint a caretaker of Winterfell in his name,and proceed with his quest for the realm.

That's all assuming things go Stannis' way.........

Another point.Does Robb's will legitamize Jon?Moot point maybe.......

[kephv]

Another point.Does Robb's will legitamize Jon?Moot point maybe.......

Oh that will is sure to turn up sooner or later. And, yeah, it does.

[Ladywhiskers]

Unlikely. And he was 'killed', as in Reek was killed dressed up as Ramsay - which was why they thought he was dead.

Exactly. And the phrase "other walking dead" could refer to Bran and Rickon, both of whom have had their deaths faked, without implying that Bolton or anyone else has any kind of literal undead status. I suspect this to be a moment of dramatic irony, though--what with Catelyn Stark walking around and whatnot.

[Cynthia Snow]

I'm going to bump this up even though it's a pretty old thread- but there's something else that hasn't been mentioned. The Liddle, and whatever clansmen he might have told about seeing Bran, knows that he WAS alive. But he also knows he was being hunted, was traveling without much supplies, and was going across dangerous terrain. They have no reason to assume that Bran's still alive or that Bran reached the wall.

If they do determine that Bran never reached the wall, they'll hope he's still out there somewhere and possibly continue looking. But, the most likely explanation would be that Bran was found by the Boltons and killed or died before getting there. Once they know Bran's not at the wall they'll assume chances of him still being alive are slim.

[Jovem Corvo]

I'm going to bump this up even though it's a pretty old thread- but there's something else that hasn't been mentioned. The Liddle, and whatever clansmen he might have told about seeing Bran, knows that he WAS alive. But he also knows he was being hunted, was traveling without much supplies, and was going across dangerous terrain. They have no reason to assume that Bran's still alive or that Bran reached the wall.

If they do determine that Bran never reached the wall, they'll hope he's still out there somewhere and possibly continue looking. But, the most likely explanation would be that Bran was found by the Boltons and killed or died before getting there. Once they know Bran's not at the wall they'll assume chances of him still being alive are slim.

I disagree. The Liddle probably guessed that Bran was hiding, therefore the kid wouldn't announce he was alive even if he reached the Wall. The Wall wasn't synonymous of safety for a cripple with a direwolf, easily recognizable as Bran Stark.

Well, the interesting thing about this character is that he came out of nowhere, knows exactly what's going on and helps Bran in secret for nothing in return. A Stark loyalist? Or just a man who didn't like to interfere with anyone business? :stunned: Probably the last since he didn't offered more help for Bran and didn't talk to anyone what he saw.

[redriver]

I disagree. The Liddle probably guessed that Bran was hiding, therefore the kid wouldn't announce he was alive even if he reached the Wall. The Wall wasn't synonymous of safety for a cripple with a direwolf, easily recognizable as Bran Stark.

Well, the interesting thing about this character is that he came out of nowhere, knows exactly what's going on and helps Bran in secret for nothing in return. A Stark loyalist? Or just a man who didn't like to interfere with anyone business? :stunned: Probably the last since he didn't offered more help for Bran and didn't talk to anyone what he saw.

This encounter always struck me as very odd.Yes,he displays extensive knowledge of events from beyond the Wall,to Winterfell itself and everywhere in between

He laments twice on the absence of Starks in Winterfell and shows that he knows exactly who Bran is-"certain other walking dead."(or carried dead!)

Yet he asks no questions,and offers no advice or invitations to his holdfast.He seemingly allows this cripped,but significant Stark on his way,in his band of youngsters and Hodor.

The only conclusion I can draw,is that he is under instruction to discretely escort the party to the Wall.

And that those instructions were provided by Bloodraven.The contradiction between what he obviously knows,and how a seemingly responsible adult behaved is difficult to comprehend,otherwise.

[Tytos Blackwood]

The fact that jojen refers to this liddle as "my lord"strikes me as clue. Idk if its just me but jojen seems to be pretty much on the ball. Imo I believe it little liddle

[redriver]

The fact that jojen refers to this liddle as "my lord"strikes me as clue. Idk if its just me but jojen seems to be pretty much on the ball. Imo I believe it little liddle

You are right in that the stranger is addressed as "my lord" and doesn't contradict it.

But I think this is The Liddle,as in Torrhen,the clan chief.The head of the clan is given the title "lord" when he visits Winterfell,not the sons.

Having said that,we know "big" is at the Wall,"middle" is with Stannis.Little has not been accounted for.

I suspect he may be with Crowfood Umber's green boys,but that is pure speculation.

The Liddle himself,if not with Stannis,should have attended the Karstark wedding at the Wall,but didn't.

[Sam Huxley]

I don't see the Liddle being anyone important, it's obvious how he knows who Bran is; he's walking around with a direwolf, of which only the Stark children have; he's the only one other than Rickon left in the North as of recently, and Rickon is a baby so it wouldn't be hard to piece it together no matter who it is. He may just be some man they encountered on the road and that's it. Also he wouldn't have told the Bolton's about them because everyone in the North bar the Bolton's absolutely love the Starks because Ned was such a good liege lord to them all

[Tytos Blackwood]

My only reason for saying its little is that he seems as if he wants to help bran but dosent have the authority within his clan to declare. Its almost as if he must report back to the clan. Just before meeting him jojen and bran both agree they were being watched in the clan lands, I suggest little was sent a envoy/scout to determine their intent upon seeing summer and bran confrims his suspicions that a stark still lives. But couldnt act wo chief concent

[bemused]

Whichever Liddle it is , there could be various reasons for keeping an eye on Bran from a distance. Needing to report to a higher authority is one possibility ..Knowledge from BR is a possibility , I think , but maybe second-hand...

You may consider out on a limb , but I think could fit a larger puzzle neatly. The idea began to occur when considering whether Benjen might be the Hooded Man in Winterfell. If he's not Coldhands ( who died long ago ) but has been rescued by the CoTF and Bloodraven ( who certainly can know what's been going on in WF, and the north in general ) . He could be being sent back south while Bran is being led north..Bran to reach BR and CoTF , Benjen to liase with the clan leaders and Northern anti-Bolton lords , helping to unify the probable Northern Conspiracy, locate a secret entrance to WF ( if any) and ensure there is a Stark in WF , even if he must return to the wall once another Stark is installed . I'd think he could have easily spoken directly to The Liddle and other Clan heads and perhaps Lady Dustin ,e.g.

If it was known Bran was needed in the North , it would explain the arms length approach ... and it makes me wonder about the old man the wildlings killed at Queen's Crown . Was he another secret escort ? If so, they may not be able to be sure Bran is still alive.

[Dreadwolf]

Re-reading this once old thread - there is really nothing significant on topic coming to my mind I can share here. I just considered for a while isn’t it another example of readers self-delusions or in other words case of readers having too great expectations from the text and a randomly appearing small character. We have similar cases and in fact still (AFAIK) not decisively solved discussions in the past. Besides, directed to a character which was very much engaging and one which was honored with much more pages and author’s attention in the books such as Syrio Forel. (his reincarnation as Jaquen or the likes faceless men is not taken seriously by me) The shear logics indicated that if a character failed to re-appear in the next two books than it is more likely that he would be most probably remaining death and his storyline broadly speaking is completed for the rest of the saga. With AFFC and ADWD originally intended as a single book and having generally almost overlapping timespan I would not be so sure. Jon Connington, would be Aegon,and might be Ashara came as another exceptions form this would be ‘rule’. Although we never got nothing but old stories and rumors nor any events revealed before our eyes with their direct participations in the previous installments. All that being said I just am trying to say that this Bran’s meeting with a/ the Liddle might have some important connection with the future narrating, but most probably it was just a detail. An early confirmation in the ASOS that the North and its Mountain clans in particular are strong Stark’s loyalists. That Lord of Dreadfort’s authority in the North would not be so sure whenever even an infant true Stark exists or lurks anywhere around the WInetrfel. Well yes. This encounter was also something allowing Jojen to predict that wolves will come again. Apart from all that significance of that encounter might be more or less equal of importance for the main ASOIAF plot or world/ character building as it was of the fact that after the Tower of Joy’s massacre, lord Eddard returned to Dustin’s widow her marriage portion namely the red stallion of her death husband. Well it certifies Lord Eddards honor and sense of duty and humanity – he personally appeared and returned the family treasure to the bereaved.Yet this only sets new puzzles - Barbey Ryswell seems quite pissed that she never received her husban’d bones leaving us to believe her claim that these would have been much more valuable to her. (Eddard is said to have buried all the death participants in the fight under the ruins of destroyed Tower). Similarly we have already had this with the returned SoM and yet no one knows accrual feelings of Daynes for Starks (well Edric appeared friendly to Arya but we still have to understand if the new Sword of the Morning will not blame Eddard on both Arthur’s and Ashara demise.)Basically I am saying that someday we may have a conclusion to all that including the bit how important a little Liddle was. The huge problem remaing is that every next book answers a few of old questions and raises tones of new…

[armidil0]

Is it possible he's the Hooded Man? Or am I missing something big?

[redriver]

Is it possible he's the Hooded Man? Or am I missing something big?

It's very much a possibility.He has motive,knowledge,background and time.

But we won't know until the WOW is released,or a helpful preview chapter.

[Sam Huxley]

He could be being sent back south while Bran is being led north..Bran to reach BR and CoTF , Benjen to liase with the clan leaders and Northern anti-Bolton lords , helping to unify the probable Northern Conspiracy, locate a secret entrance to WF ( if any)

Just started reading A Game of Thrones again, and Bran talks about a secret entrance at the South Gate of Winterfell, that if followed around leads you in at the North Gate, something that only someone with a deep knowledge of Winterfell would know, likely being Benjen... The Liddle, however, could be a man who Bloodraven is using to make sure that Bran gets to him; in the Mystery Knight it would seem that Bloodraven uses a Plumm to keep tabs on Dunk and Egg, so why not the Liddle in the North?

[redriver]

Just started reading A Game of Thrones again, and Bran talks about a secret entrance at the South Gate of Winterfell, that if followed around leads you in at the North Gate, something that only someone with a deep knowledge of Winterfell would know, likely being Benjen... The Liddle, however, could be a man who Bloodraven is using to make sure that Bran gets to him; in the Mystery Knight it would seem that Bloodraven uses a Plumm to keep tabs on Dunk and Egg, so why not the Liddle in the North?

Personally,I don't think the Liddle is glamoured or warged.Possibly connected via weirnet.

BR is glamouring Plumm using a moonstone,imo.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Yeah I've only read synopsis on The Tales of Dunk and Egg and they always say it is heavily implied

Plumm is just a glamour used by BR to infiltrate the affair and get his dwarves in place to steal the egg.

[Gendels Children]

Most tantalizingly, he looks at Bran and Summer when he mentions that the Bastard of Bolton has offered a reward for word of "certain other walking dead." Does he know who Bran is, despite reports that Bran and Rickon were slain?

I think he would have to me pretty daft no not notice the fact that Bran is a crippled boy of a young age with a huge Direwolf.. im SURE he knows who Bran is. but yes the much more interesting question is who HE is

[Gendels Children]

At the time I just got the feeling that the Liddle was a way of giving us (the readers) a look at what was going on in the North. From ACOK onward we are given only second hand accounts on what is going on up there. So here is a well informed native giving his two cents on how crappy things have become without the Starks around.

The only other outcome I could see is maybe this Liddle goes forth and tells the mountain clans that Bran is alive and to hold out against the Ironborn and Boltons until the Starks return. After all Jojen's parting words were pretty persuasive...

I like this one I agree, he may have been placed as a confirmation that the northmen still remember the starks, and will wait for them. this scene could also have been placed there so that later on their could be people who would have reason to dispute any other lords from trying to claim WF being that the true Lord of Winterfell is still alive and kicking.