Battlestar Galactica: Frakking Hard Since 1978

[Lord of Oop North]

To me, epic doesn't necessary mean "big fleet", but "big consequences".

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='Xanrn' post='1429241' date='Jul 6 2008, 11.46']Well they will have to even out the sides somewhat, because B5 and DS9 had some serious fuckin battles with 100s of ships on either side.

Hell some of them make the End battle in RotJ look like a skirmish.

So where are they going to get the extra 10-20+ Capital Ships for either side...

Epic to me means Fleet vs Fleet, I mean hell Galactica and Pegasus vs 5 or so Basestars was good, but hardly epic.

Hell the Cylons haven't even shown that much of a fleet lately[/quote]

This post reminds me a lot of fights I used to have in eighth grade, debating with the local Trekkies the burning question, 'Would the Enterprise defeat a spaceship with undefined powers of my own design?' (I still say it would have, but I suppose I'm not looking at it logically.)

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Xanrn' post='1429241' date='Jul 6 2008, 08.46']So where are they going to get the extra 10-20+ Capital Ships for either side...

Epic to me means Fleet vs Fleet, I mean hell Galactica and Pegasus vs 5 or so Basestars was good, but hardly epic.

Hell the Cylons haven't even shown that much of a fleet lately[/quote]

The Cylons deployed considerable resources in the taking of the colonies. They had sufficient baseships to take out twelve colonies and three or four dozen Battlestars, IIRC. We clearly haven't seen everything at their disposal yet. We've just seen the expeditionary force they sent out after the remnants of humanity, which then split in two.

Now as for the other side, where are the humans fleeing the colonies going to find a bunch more capital ships and a bunch more humans to help fight the final battle? I'd say that is pretty obvious. The extra firepower will come from the destination to which they've been headed all along - Earth! The question that remains is whether or not the 2-6-8 alliance will still hold at that point - I could see it going either way.

[Wouter]

Calibandar;
[quote]It's very hard to determine if this guy is for real or not. What he has going for him is that he apparantly correctly predicted what would happen in Revelations a day before it was aired.[/quote]
Someone on the TrekBBS told me that this guy on scifi is known for having posted (accurate) spoilers a number of times, in threads that kept getting deleted. If it was only "Revelations", just one day before airing, it wouldn't say much because there was a pre-screening were lots of things got leaked, but apparently he has done it more than once so it may be for real.

[quote]Or, if they go with the cycles and all things repeat itself theme, our Earth in a prehistoric time, which ties in with the Cavemen comment.[/quote]
That may well happen, allthough possibly not on the planet they have now found (which they call Earth). There may be a "new Earth" (like "New Caprica" - and it would eventually become "our Earth" in time) found where small remnants of the 13th tribe fled to. Perhaps with cavemen as original occupants?

Bronn Stone;
[quote]The Cylons deployed considerable resources in the taking of the colonies. They had sufficient baseships to take out twelve colonies and three or four dozen Battlestars, IIRC. We clearly haven't seen everything at their disposal yet.[/quote]
Actually, the cylons destroyed up to 118 battlestars in the initial attacks on the colonies and its fleet. There were 120 active ones, of which 2 are known to have escaped the opening attacks. The Cylons must have scores of baseships, even with their civil war.

[quote]Now as for the other side, where are the humans fleeing the colonies going to find a bunch more capital ships and a bunch more humans to help fight the final battle? I'd say that is pretty obvious. The extra firepower will come from the destination to which they've been headed all along - Earth! The question that remains is whether or not the 2-6-8 alliance will still hold at that point - I could see it going either way.[/quote]
While this is no longer out of the question if the planet found in "Revelations" is "not Earth", I fear it is the planet the 13th tribe went to from Kobol (and probably called "Earth" by the 13th tribe, allthough it is not our planet) - and its civilisation is gone or mostly gone. This makes it fairly unlikely that a huge battlefleet of the 13th tribe (which might even be Cylons themselves, the origin of the final five possibly) will be able to assist the colonials.

But there are other possibilities: a number of rebel baseships, besides Natalie's, could have survived and join up with the RTF. The last episodes have given the impression that Natalie's ship is the only one remaining, but they also let it seem like this ship was almost defenceless when Starbuck discovered it and in "The hub" and "Revelations" it had plenty of firepower, all of a sudden.

Or, part of Cavil's faction could break up, for yet another split within the Cylons. Part could join the RTF against their former comrades. Boomer's influence, or a Centurion uprising, or simply a difference of opinion with some 1s or 4s or 5s no longer wishing to kill all 2s, 6s and 8s might yet produce this result.

There are also some old-style Centurions (Razor) running around, allthough I doubt they would become involved, certainly not on the side of the humans.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Wouter' post='1429465' date='Jul 6 2008, 16.21']Bronn Stone;

Actually, the cylons destroyed up to 118 battlestars in the initial attacks on the colonies and its fleet. There were 120 active ones, of which 2 are known to have escaped the opening attacks. The Cylons must have scores of baseships, even with their civil war.[/quote]

Yes, and all those Battlestars were disabled. Remember Pegasus + Galactica vs 2 Basestars? It was an ass-whomping. The Cylons only won because they had the elements of surprise and sabotage.

And there's no indication their fleet is any bigger then the Colonial one was. And it's probably much reduced after their recent civil war.

[Wouter]

[quote name='Wouter' post='1429465' date='Jul 6 2008, 22.21']Someone on the TrekBBS told me that this guy on scifi is known for having posted (accurate) spoilers a number of times, in threads that kept getting deleted. If it was only "Revelations", just one day before airing, it wouldn't say much because there was a pre-screening were lots of things got leaked, but apparently he has done it more than once so it may be for real.[/quote]
Going to quote myself here, because someone else puts doubt on what I was I told on the TrekBBS: [quote]"you'll see that this particular poster recently claimed to have exclusive inside information about Revelations. It was posted after the Revelations screening. It was limited to the same three points leaked at battlestarblog after the screening. He got called on it."[/quote]
Now I wonder if that is indeed the only "spoilers" he has to shown for. So there seems to be considerable disagreement about how trustworthy this guy is...

Shryke;
[quote]And there's no indication their fleet is any bigger then the Colonial one was. And it's probably much reduced after their recent civil war.[/quote]
Quite possibly. OTOH, it's almost certainly a lot more than Galactica + one damaged baseship can handle. If there is to be a major spacebattle (and that there will be a very VFX-battle at the finale is a given, this was known already from earlier interviews - allthough I suppose it doesn't have to be a space battle per se, it probably is), they are going to need some help or it will be very short and very bloody for the colonials.

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1429477' date='Jul 6 2008, 13.28']And there's no indication their fleet is any bigger then the Colonial one was. And it's probably much reduced after their recent civil war.[/quote]

There is no indication to the contrary either. We do know that the success of the initial attack surpassed all Cylon projections and resulted in pitifully few casualties. Nor is there any reason to assert an opinion as to whether or not the Cylons committed their full resources to the attack or if they maintained significant reserves for the possiblity of a counter-attack.

I'd say that RDM could pick any number between 20 and 200 and come up with a plausible explanation for the number of basestars currently in existence. We just don't know.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Wouter' post='1427880' date='Jul 4 2008, 20.52']That last part, about the very minor story threads, is interesting. I had heard the rest, but not that particular part. Where did you read this, Werthead?[/quote]

A reference, already known:

SPOILER: BSG

According to an Alessandro Juliani interview linked on Galactica Sitrep, we find out what Baltar said to Gaeta that made him stab Baltar in the neck: this to me qualifies a very minor story thread.

[quote name='Calibandar' post='1429064' date='Jul 6 2008, 11.53']I don't really know what he means by that "we cannot repel firepower of that nature" line but I suppose it ties into the massive uber-battle that is supposed to be shown. Which could be cool.[/quote]

That's a quote from [i]Return of the Jedi[/i] about the Death Star. Does this mean a huge Cylon superweapon shows up?

The one spoiler line which was most intriguing was the [i]Star Trek III[/i] quote, which would suggest:

SPOILER: BSG

That [i]Galactica[/i] is destroyed at the end of the series, perhaps burning up in Earth's atmosphere having taken out the last Cylon baseship?

[Shryke]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1429537' date='Jul 6 2008, 17.44']There is no indication to the contrary either. We do know that the success of the initial attack surpassed all Cylon projections and resulted in pitifully few casualties. Nor is there any reason to assert an opinion as to whether or not the Cylons committed their full resources to the attack or if they maintained significant reserves for the possiblity of a counter-attack.

I'd say that RDM could pick any number between 20 and 200 and come up with a plausible explanation for the number of basestars currently in existence. We just don't know.[/quote]

Well obviously they can pull anything they want out of their asses, I'm thinking the Cylon fleet was on the small size. That's WHY they infiltrated the colonies. If they could have brought vastly superior firepower to bear, I don't think they'd have bothered.

[Wouter]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1429625' date='Jul 7 2008, 02.29']A reference, already known[/quote]
Ah, now I see what you were referring to.


[quote]That's a quote from [i]Return of the Jedi[/i] about the Death Star. Does this mean a huge Cylon superweapon shows up?[/quote]
Or they just have a significant numeric advantage? It doesn't seem they need a superweapon to destroy the human fleet, including Galactica and the rebel baseship.

I take it you consider it rather likely that this scifi poster is telling the truth about having spoken to someone who knows what will happen, despite his vagueness? Or are you still very sceptical about his "not earth" claim?

[Werthead]

Who knows? To be honest, a lot of what he said could be inferred from comments made by the producers and writers and claimed as fact. It's as useful as any post suggesting ideas for how the series ends, regardless of if it's a true spoiler or not.

[Wouter]

I agree, even as pure speculation it would be quite a good thing to consider what he wrote.

And while people disagree on how original his spoilers have been (he may just have been relaying what he read elsewhere AFAIK), apparently when he claimed to have spoilers in the past they have always turned out to be true, so far (Elosha appearing in a vision was an example given - on scifi, he was apparently the first to post that this would happen).

[burnt hound]

[url="http://tv.ign.com/articles/886/886570p1.html"]http://tv.ign.com/articles/886/886570p1.html[/url]

The movie is is shaping up. I liked that Jane Espenson would write it, and that it would take place in season 1. Now what is it about? Any clue?

[Bronn Stone]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1429639' date='Jul 6 2008, 17.48']Well obviously they can pull anything they want out of their asses, I'm thinking the Cylon fleet was on the small size. That's WHY they infiltrated the colonies. If they could have brought vastly superior firepower to bear, I don't think they'd have bothered.[/quote]

I get the sense that without the compromised operating system, Mark VII Vipers eat Raiders alive. The difference between the Mark II and the Mark VII is like the difference between WWII fighter craft and F-14's (at least).

An initial 2-1 Cylon majority in capital ships would not guarantee victory without sabotage. But it would possibly leave 200 basestars around (which is where I got my previous guess on the top end).

[Merentha]

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1431561' date='Jul 8 2008, 09.43']I get the sense that without the compromised operating system, Mark VII Vipers eat Raiders alive. The difference between the Mark II and the Mark VII is like the difference between WWII fighter craft and F-14's (at least).[/quote]Well, it seems like that even MkII Vipers are more than a match for Raiders (barring exceptional ones like Scar) so the MkVII has to dominate them utterly. In general, all the Colonial tech seems to be more effective in battle. Yes, the Galactica would constantly run from baseships, but once they actually turned and fought, two battlestars trounced the two baseships. Even with Pegasus' superior firepower, I'd still say one ancient, retired warship is better than the top-of-the-line baseships to date.

[Calibandar]

The thing is though, you can't actually deduce anything from that because the writers of the show are only portraying it like that because that it suits them. Yes, they show the Vipers as superior to pretty much all the Raiders, so they make the tension by having the amount of Raiders being far bigger than the Vipers. Again with the Battlestars, of which there is only one, it seems Galactica is only outmatched when faces by 3 or more Baseships, taking out two seems to be a reasonable proposition. When you actually see the battle they show you may wonder why, given the immense firepower of the baseships plus their ability to jump much faster than a Battlestar can. It also seems odd to me given the immense technological skill the Cylons exhibit, it should be the other way around as the baseships certainly look far more advanced. It's storytelling license that the writers take here, because otherwise having 3 or 4 Baseships show up might seem ( even more) like overkill, if even 1 were more than enough.

[Werthead]

CGI guy Mojo [url="http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/bsg-wrap-party-part-one/"]blogs[/url] about the [b]BSG[/b] wrap party, or more accurately the day they spent in the studios before the party. It was interesting that after 4 years of working on the show, this was the first time the post-production crew actually got to go and see the sets and the show being filmed.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Calibandar' post='1432178' date='Jul 8 2008, 16.44']The thing is though, you can't actually deduce anything from that because the writers of the show are only portraying it like that because that it suits them. Yes, they show the Vipers as superior to pretty much all the Raiders, so they make the tension by having the amount of Raiders being far bigger than the Vipers. Again with the Battlestars, of which there is only one, it seems Galactica is only outmatched when faces by 3 or more Baseships, taking out two seems to be a reasonable proposition. When you actually see the battle they show you may wonder why, given the immense firepower of the baseships plus their ability to jump much faster than a Battlestar can. It also seems odd to me given the immense technological skill the Cylons exhibit, it should be the other way around as the baseships certainly look far more advanced. It's storytelling license that the writers take here, because otherwise having 3 or 4 Baseships show up might seem ( even more) like overkill, if even 1 were more than enough.[/quote]


When did taking out 2 seem reasonable for the Galactica?

[Werthead]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1432202' date='Jul 8 2008, 22.01']When did taking out 2 seem reasonable for the Galactica?[/quote]

When it got more nukes from [i]Pegasus[/i], plus [i]Galactica[/i] holds off two basestars at once in the mini-series and Adama is 100% confident that [i]Galactica[/i] can hold off two basestars simultaneously in [i]Exodus Part 2[/i] but not four. My guess is that by this time [i]Galactica[/i]'s crew are more familiar with Cylon tactics and know they have the means to hold off the enemy in certain numbers, but beyond that things are dicier.

The general feeling since [i]Exodus Part 2[/i] seems to be that [i]Galactica[/i] can destroy a Cylon basestar one-on-one pretty handily now it has a full crew, a full fighter complement and nukes. The weakness of the basestars seems to be their lack of direct-fire weapons like the battlestar's salvo cannons and railguns, and their light armour compared to a battlestar's.

[Wouter]

To be effective, baseships need to keep their distance and let their raiders and long-range missiles do the job. They are not meant to face a battlestar at close range (within effective range of those railguns).

When it can do this (if Galactica gets to close it can always jump, with that fantastic Cylon jump tech), one baseship with a full complement of raiders is probably a match for Galactica with its present numbers of Vipers.