Dragon Age

[Altherion]

People's panties are also getting real bunched up over this launch-day DLC thing, because none of them understand how game developers work.

I don't think you can blame people for that. I've been following the game for while so I know how this came to pass, but when a random individual sees that a game is coming out and $7 DLC is coming out on the same day, it is rational to assume that the company in question is trying to screw you over by selling the game in pieces. Bioware/EA is not entirely blameless here -- this is exactly what one would expect to happen when you have a completely finished game and you hold it back for three months or more to promote console sales.

[Werthead]

I don't think you can blame people for that. I've been following the game for while so I know how this came to pass, but when a random individual sees that a game is coming out and $7 DLC is coming out on the same day, it is rational to assume that the company in question is trying to screw you over by selling the game in pieces. Bioware/EA is not entirely blameless here -- this is exactly what one would expect to happen when you have a completely finished game and you hold it back for three months or more to promote console sales.

Oddly, Fallout 3 hasn't had the same criticisms thrown at it (at least not seriously) despite that being clearly the case there as well. In fact, even moreso, as Fallout 3 is signficantly shorter than Oblivion, even with all five of the DLC packs added on, but you're being charged a lot more (£30 for the game than another £6 per DLC pack, so double the price). This does even out given that FO3 is also a considerably stronger game than Oblivion.

In addition, BioWare I believe wanted to release the game back in March, but were told by EA to hold back for the console versions. So we can just blame EA for this. Although interesting DA seems to be free of copy protection (at least as far as I can tell so far), which is good news.

[oneeye]

I miss second edition Ad&d

[Altherion]

I miss second edition Ad&d

Why? Casters were a lot of fun, but warriors and rogues didn't have nearly as many options in combat as in later editions or in Dragon Age. I liked the hit point scheme (none of those 700 HP player character monstrosities from Neverwinter Nights), but overall it left a lot to be desired.

[potsherds]

I really, really, really can't wait for the release of this game. I kinda feel like I'm twiddling my thumbs on other games until the release. Definitely dl'ing the character creation, for all the half-hour of entertainment it will give me. :P

[Jon AS]

I kinda feel like I'm twiddling my thumbs on other games until the release.

Hehe, I feel the same. I tried starting another run through BG2 in the past weeks but came down with severe character creation and restart syndrome. Maybe when the DA character creation tool is released I can use it to channel that and get a real BG2 game going.

[Altherion]

There's a fairly good gameplay video here: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-dragon...rigins/17-1477/ . It's rather long, but you get a good overview of the interface and also some spells in the first few minutes. It also doesn't spoil anything of consequence (if you've been following the game, parts of this sequence have been shown before with a lot more spoilers). I think the video is intended as comedy: the person playing is clearly not trying very hard (or he's not very good at it).

[Baleraxar]

I miss second edition Ad&d

Why miss? You can still play games that aren't the current edition. I mean as long as you can get people to play with you. I still play 2e sometimes.

Why? Casters were a lot of fun, but warriors and rogues didn't have nearly as many options in combat as in later editions or in Dragon Age. I liked the hit point scheme (none of those 700 HP player character monstrosities from Neverwinter Nights), but overall it left a lot to be desired.

I'd much rather be a 2e fighter than a 3e one (though 4e ones are still way better). You get more attacks, all at your normal THAC0, and you can use them while moving. Plus HP is all around much lower, so relatively speaking you do more damage. There are very few options that 3e introduced that weren't already in Combat and Tactics and in 3e you have to pay feats to do them decently. Plus casters lost most of their disadvantages and generally got better at everything (except doing damage), so 2e fighters come out better by comparison.

[Yagathai]

I really, really, really can't wait for the release of this game. I kinda feel like I'm twiddling my thumbs on other games until the release. Definitely dl'ing the character creation, for all the half-hour of entertainment it will give me. :P

I hear that. I'm going to give Risen a whirl, but this is the game of the year as far as I'm concerned, anticipation-wise, anyway. I'm figuratively chewing my nails to nubs.

[Yagathai]

I'd much rather be a 2e fighter than a 3e one (though 4e ones are still way better). You get more attacks, all at your normal THAC0, and you can use them while moving. Plus HP is all around much lower, so relatively speaking you do more damage. There are very few options that 3e introduced that weren't already in Combat and Tactics and in 3e you have to pay feats to do them decently. Plus casters lost most of their disadvantages and generally got better at everything (except doing damage), so 2e fighters come out better by comparison.

But that's nuts. I mean, at low levels, sure, but in 1st and 2nd the magic user scales exponentially while the fighter scales linearly, if that. A 15th level magic user will blow a 15th level fighter out of the water ever damn time, from damage to resistance to utility. One thing that 3e did better was to scale back magic a bit, while giving fighters a chance to catch up in the damage race.

[Serious Callers Only]

Look to be a absolutely ridiculous game. Bioware doesn't disappoint in creative failure expectations.

BTW did you read the free "books" chapters that Gaider is "writing" set in their "world"?

Oh for the days real writers wrote computer games.

Even writers that are not so hot like Raymond E. Feist did great (Betrayal at Krondor). Not to speak of good game specialized writers (bloodlines).

Instead, "original setting" appears to mean generic fantasy unreal setting - with lots of gushing blood and the slight possibility of naughty cuddles in underwear.

[Serious Callers Only]

The chapter speaks for itself. 2º book btw.

http://na.llnet.bioware.cdn.ea.com/u/f/eag...ing_ch1_pt1.pdf

http://na.llnet.bioware.cdn.ea.com/u/f/eag...ing_ch1_pt2.pdf

[Jon AS]

This just in: novels written as tie-ins to video games are crap. I never would have guessed.

[Serious Callers Only]

No. David Gaider writing is crap, if he tries go above the level of one, possibly two dialog-line fetch quest.

This is the main writer/designer creating the setting.

Granted he has about 6 other guys working for him, but somehow i'm not confident.

Must be all the blood, or the Imoen clone.

[Jon AS]

David Gaider writing is crap, if he tries go above the level of one, possibly two dialog-line fetch quest.

He is not a great novelist. Maybe he'd be good someday if he kept at it. This is his first novel and it was apparently written in less than 6 months. Combine that with the fact that it's a video game tie-in novel and...yeah.

But weren't you recently bemoaning the demise of endless dungeon crawls with minimal story (and minimal options for the player to affect said story)? Now suddenly you want great writing and choose to complain about one of the few companies that has demonstrated over the years that they actually give a damn about the writing for their games?

the Imoen clone.

The one who is just like Imoen, except that she's not a "kid sister" to the protagonist, apparently used to be a spy/assassin until she found god and became some kind of lay member of the chantry?

[Serious Callers Only]

Only the very best in each genre is acceptable. If complicated dungeons are the focus of the game, of course i will rage at neverwinter nights 1 (actually two, but who remembers the 80's) style "dungeons".

On the other hand if story is the goal, i will ... still rage at neverwinter nights (2) pathetic story.

If gameplay is the goal ... et caetera.

If you will note i always praise Troika Bloodlines for it's ambiguous story. Not its fluid combat.

The one who is just like Imoen, except that she's not a "kid sister" to the protagonist, apparently used to be a spy/assassin until she found god and became some kind of lay member of the chantry?

http://i26.tinypic.com/20z3cxl.jpg

Yeah dude. Must a designer with a fetish.

I fully expect dark elves somewhere.

Nay i demand frostbrand and whatever its name was.

[Altherion]

David Gaider writing is crap, if he tries go above the level of one, possibly two dialog-line fetch quest.

No. Gaider also wrote parts of Baldur's Gate 2 and Knights of the Old Republic. His novels aren't anything to write home about (and I think he understands that), but as far as games go, very few people have such a resume.

[Serious Callers Only]

BTW, i've been watching standards for games(!!!) decline for about 10 years now, that pathetic reviewer complaining about this game being "too hard" is just a example.

Think that fallout 3 got the best writing award at some big conference a while ago. Didn't that blew your mind?

Fortunately books are normally written by one person with minimal input from editors, so they can't really turn a great book to shit without lots of bad luck. Sometimes they even help, who would have thought.

Going to change my custom title.

45% seems good wouldn't you say? Or am i optimistic?

[Stone-Made-Soft]

Oh for the days real writers wrote computer games.

Orson Scott Card wrote Advent Rising for the original Xbox. I heard it was a decent story but the game was absolute crap.

[Baleraxar]

But that's nuts. I mean, at low levels, sure, but in 1st and 2nd the magic user scales exponentially while the fighter scales linearly, if that. A 15th level magic user will blow a 15th level fighter out of the water ever damn time, from damage to resistance to utility.

Well, yeah, of course. Everyone knows that magic is king in pre-4th D&D, and that the system breaks down somewhere between 10th and 15th level. But 3rd didn't change that at all, other than pushing the breaking point closer to 15 than 10.

One thing that 3e did better was to scale back magic a bit, while giving fighters a chance to catch up in the damage race.

What? 3rd scaled back magic? Where? They got rid of all negative effects that spells gave to casters, gave more spells per level, let casters make saves against their spells harder, standardized xp charts, nerfed magic resistance horribly... Practically everything casters got made them better. The only thing that did get effectively nerfed was direct damage spells at higher levels (and even then only in core) because of generally higher hit points. But hit points don't matter too much when you can just kill things instantaneously, and the fighter had the same problem.

And fighters? Got fewer attacks per round than they did with the mastery rules in Combat and Tactics, got multiple attacks much later than they would have even in core 2e, couldn't make multiple attacks and move in the same turn, took penalties to iterative attacks, got worse saving throws... I think it's clear who came out on top.

Druids, that's who. But that's another topic entirely.