[ADWD SPOILERS] Where do whores go?

[Tyrion Dragonrider]

I do pity Tyrion. During the gang rape, he fully believed that she had deceived him and that she was willing to sleep with multiple men for money. Tyrion is appalled at himself for having treated Tysha the way he did. He can not come to terms with having been so easily persuaded that she was anything other than what she presented herself as (a crofter's daughter in distress).

I don't see him minimizing this at all. He dwells repeatedly on the gold coin, and his contempt for himself and his father comes across clearly. Before he knew the truth, he felt contempt for himself for having been deceived by Tysha. Now, he feels it for having been deceived by Tywin and for the violence that Tysha was subjected to. I felt that Tyrion can not forgive himself.

I don't know that readers need closure with the actual Tysha for this loop to close. Tyrion coming to terms with what happened and his role in it would be sufficient, and I don't particularly want to see Tyrion in contact with Tysha. She's been through enough.

[Galen M]

I doubt that he would define it as rape, and not just a husband's right.

But he still seemed uncomfortable with taking a woman against her will.

yes, that was exactly the point that was I trying to make.

Tyrion did not rape Tysha. She was a whore and well paid for her services, at least this is what Tywin makes it out to be. Whores in Westeros are not allowed to choose who they bed, they have to do whoever has the coin.

Um, no, we don't have any evidence to support that. Whores, just like any other profession have the right to determine their customer, and to set their own rates. Further, she was certainly not a whore, and Tywin knew that. I'd argue that the random soldiers committed no crime, as they were led to believe she was a whore, and they were paying for her services. However, Tyrion now knows better, and that is what nagging at him. However, none of this changes the fact that he still was exercising his rights as a husband, and not raping her.

[Hopeless]

Uh, Tyrion did not rape her. No way, no how. He was still married at that time, and spousal rape is not a valid concept back then.

Whether it is legally considered rape or not, it is obviously evil for someone to take his wife by force after she has been gang-raped. No decent person would do that. Tyrion knows it was horrible, and that is why he feels so guilty.

I don't think the marriage takes away any of the blame at all. However, I do feel sorry for him because he was very young and was forced by his father to participate.

[Lilbaz]

Question. What became of the whore that became Tywins fathers mistress? We know that he marched her naked through the streets to the docks but where did that whore go?

[Brienne the Beauty]

I think it kinda weird he just randomly ask people. How would he know the right answer when he hears it?

He's asking himself, not them. He doesn't expect an answer.

[reiver]

I'd argue that the random soldiers committed no crime, as they were led to believe she was a whore, and they were paying for her services.

By westerosi laws, probably, although by those i doubt they'd say Tyrion was either. It would all depend on Tysha's reaction to it, which we never really see. i do doubt she was bucking and moaning in pleasure as the 20th guardsman started to pump her though. I think tears and blood were more likely and any man who thinks thrusting into a crying, bleeding and distressed woman is consensual...

[C.T. Phipps]

By westerosi laws, probably, although by those i doubt they'd say Tyrion was either. It would all depend on Tysha's reaction to it, which we never really see. i do doubt she was bucking and moaning in pleasure as the 20th guardsman started to pump her though. I think tears and blood were more likely and any man who thinks thrusting into a crying, bleeding and distressed woman is consensual...

I'm inclined to think rape is still a crime in Westeros. It's just that it's up to the law to interpret it.

The problem is, Tywin Lannister is the law in his lands.

[modehead]

I kind of hope he never finds Tysha. If it went well, it'd be too happy for GRRM, and if it went poorly, it'd be kind of all for naught.

But, I was convinced Tyrion was going to eat it before this book ended.

[BastardSon]

If Martin has Tyrion meet up with Tysha I'm sure he write it so it would work well. Other than that I'd prefer Tyrion not to meet up with her. Its a powerful motivation for him and its common in books and shows for there to be some traumatic experience that happens to a character that affects their actions with out having a direct effect on the rest of the story. I don't see how it is a massive Chekov's gun.

[Xanrn]

Yeah I don't know why Tyrion didn't think of Braavos.

From Arya's povs we clearly see it has more Whores than Galleys.

[acadia]

Well, aren't we pretty confident we know who Tysha is? (The Sailor's Wife, a prostitute in Braavos who only sleeps with men who marry her and who fits the description of Tysha). That could be revealed, although TBH I don't see the point. I think Tyrion has to get over his obsession with/scars from Tysha, not find her again.

He will never find Tysha, and the question is rhetorical, he's not actually looking for her.

[Pate the Pig Boy]

actual whores go to Lys or Yunkai, but im pretty sure that Tywin's last words is a red herring. Tysha may still be a miller's wife in the Westerlands, or a sheep herder, or whatever.

Thank you. "Where do whores go?" has become one of the most annoying phrases in the series to me. As Jaime finally reveals in ASOS:

Tysha. Was. NOT. A. Whore.

She was what she said she was, and then she was forever scarred by her treatment by Tywin, his guards, and in the end her "husband" Tyrion. Knowing that, why in the world does Tyrion treat his father's last words with that level of respect and continue picking at that phrase?

Tysha went wherever horribly treated common women, with a fistfull of silver and a single gold coin go. Back to her father the crofter, to another man she had previously fancied, maybe to a new city. There is no reason to believe that a commoner fled across the Narrow Sea and became a well-renowned whore in Braavos. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I need more evidence than the certainty that some people have that Tyrion will eventually meet up with her again to believe that she's the Sailor's Wife.

Having disparaged that theory, I will say that I'm partial (though not completely sold) to the theory that Gerion Lannister is the father of Lanna. The timelines seem to work and if we have to have some sort of "the name 'Lanna' implies Lannister bloodline" theory, then that's the one that I subscribe to.

[Hodor Hodor]

Where ever your mother lives...

[Brienne the Beauty]

Tysha. Was. NOT. A. Whore.

She was not, but in the misogynistic society of Westeros, that may well be where she ended up. Unless her family took her back, and they may well have been afraid to. She would have been fleeing for her life after what Tywin did to her, and what could a friendless peasant girl in a strange city do for money?

[DaNmarner]

I don't think Tysha would be shown in the coming books. Otherwise we might as well see Ygiritt (You know nothing, Jon Snow) and Cercei being a virgin (She ... moon boy for all I know).

[LordCommanderBastard]

actual whores go to Lys or Yunkai, but im pretty sure that Tywin's last words is a red herring. Tysha may still be a miller's wife in the Westerlands, or a sheep herder, or whatever.

Oh no, I hope not. GRRM has kept my hopes up that Tyrion is somehow finding his way to Tysha...and that she's near or something. Tyrion keeps repeating "Where do whores go" and I wish he'd go and find out instead of going to Daenerys because it's important for me to resolve that part of his story first!

[Selmy]

I don't think we'll meet Tysha. I don't think there's anywhere specific whores go.

I think Tyrion is just dealing with a lot of guilt and grief.

I'm just not sure if there's enough room in the remaining books for all these little issues to be addressed.

[felice]

why in the world does Tyrion treat his father's last words with that level of respect and continue picking at that phrase?

Because it's all he's got. He feels awful about the whole thing (even more so than he did before he found out the truth), and while he knows the phrase isn't actually useful, it represents a question he desperately wants an answer to.

Tysha went wherever horribly treated common women, with a fistfull of silver and a single gold coin go. Back to her father the crofter, to another man she had previously fancied, maybe to a new city. There is no reason to believe that a commoner fled across the Narrow Sea and became a well-renowned whore in Braavos.

Braavos is a new city, she could afford the passage, and getting as far away as possible from the Lannisters seems like a reasonable desire under the circumstances. And the Sailor's Wife isn't exactly renowned, just odd enough to be gossiped about.

What would have happened if Tyrion had refused the direct order from his father to rape her?

[jons nissa]

I would also not be surprised if we were to discover at such a metting that Tysha married Tyrion only for the money - never for love. How ironic to discover that she was a whore, all along and that Tywin was right.

i always wondered about that. surely everyone deserves love but tyrion is described as being considered so grotesque in the eyes of the westerosi that the only ones interested (lolly's mother and shae, for starters) are interested in his coin more than his heart.

Isn't that what this all comes down to? That after being raised by Tywin, Tyrion is unable to see himself as being worthy of love? So that when someone finally reaches out to to him and offers it to him as a SLAVE, when he has no money or power (or nose!!) -- he turns her away? Isn't that what best explains his rejection of Penny?

penny wasn't meant to be a love interest but a mirror. she was meant to be tyrion's brienne and help him find humility and his better qualities.

as for why the phrase is repeated so often, its meant to parallel jaime's recurring thought: "she slept with lancel, the kettlebacks and probably moonboy!" in a feast for crows (paraphrasing as i don't remember the exact quote)

[Jude-the-Obscure]

I think that when Tyrion asks himself "where do whores go?" he means it in a metaphysical way, not as a real question with a real location as an answer.

One place whores go is a cold, isolated and desolate place behind a huge wall - a place where nothing truly touches them, and they don't really give a damn about anyone, a place where love doesn't matter if it even exists at all, a place where loneliness doesn't hurt and you no longer see your ugly reflection in other peoples eyes. And thats where Tyrion wants to be.

Another place where whore's go is increasingly dark, self destructive and dangerous place on a downward spiral to a nasty end ... and thats where Tyrion thinks he deserves to be.

But ultimately it's where did Tywin send Tysha - and he sent her to hell. And Tywin doesn't need to send Tyrion to hell ... he's already there.