Shae and Tywin

[Ran]

As Szar says. Her first concern is her betrayal of him, the thing that helped put him up for execution. Sleeping with his father kind of pales.

[hyacine_martell]

Fascinating thread!

I'm really close the believing this theory and I now believe there does have to be a better reason for Shae to be in Tywin's bed other than Tywin just being horny or perverted. However, I still think Shae is there at Tywin--not Varys'--invitation.

I also think that, by setting this scene in a privvy Martin gives us a huge clue into Tywin's world view and thus, into the heart of this scene.

This scene is all about Tywin. Tywin who doesn't rage when Tyrion weds a "whore"--but who procedes to teach his son a "valuable" lesson. Tywin who later can't remember who Tysha was, and acts puzzled that Tyrion would bring up something so long and dead.

Tywin doesn't get personal very often. He hardly ever smiles (not since Joanna died) and acts honestly puzzled when other characters express rage at the actions or situations he forces them into. He doesn't understand when Jaime rejects the gift of Oathkeeper. He doesn't understand when Cersei rails against getting married again. And he certainly can't comprehend that Tyrion--a highborn man-- would love a whore. Tywin, you see, isn't overly dutiful or cold--I think he just has to have everything in its right place performing its right and proper function. Whores are for shagging. Children are made to obey their parents. And privvies are made to shit in. End of story.

So, my theory is, far from this being an offshoot of a Varys/Targ Restoration plot, this scene is Martin at last revealing what makes Tywin tick. Tywin knows he's just come from shagging Shae, but he doesn't think about her when Tyrion confronts him. Shae is just another facility to him. Something for his own personal use. Like the privvy. He needed sex, so he had Shae. Now he needs to relieve himself, so he goes to the toilet. If Shae is dead, she's a whore, who cares? Would he spare a thought for a broken privvy?

The irony is, that Tywin has been bedding Shae for an extremely human reason: subconciously he wants to understand his family. And Tyrion in particular. He can't understand why he, who has always led such a good public life and who loved Joanna, would be cursed with a mawkish, Dwarf son with a weakness for low women. I think Tywin is fine with low women as long as they are in their proper place. Therefore, he has no qualms about bedding Shae--but he may be doing it as a subconcious attempt to understand what all the fuss is about.

Exlaining the Hand's chain around Shae's neck is where my argument weakens. I can personally see Tywin doing this. If this scene turns out to be what it seems at face value and Tywin is a hypocrit I wouldn't feel disappointed. However, there are psychological reasons he might bed his son's whore while she's wearing his chain of office.

It's true Tywin beat another whore for wearing his mother's jewlery, but the Hand's chain is his property and has (like Shae!) been handled by many men. It's not the sacred treasures of a dead mother. Making Shae wear it could easily be a gesture of ownership, power and a reassertion of control. Tywin wants to be the most powerful and controlling ruler in Westeros and he is associated with gold/materialism etc. Putting his "hands" on Shae could be a symbolic gesture, signifying an end to the chaos that her relationship with Tyrion caused.

Also, Tywin was once Hand in this very room with Joanna. What if she used to wear the chain when they had sex? Tywin's legacy is falling apart and it wouldn't be out of character for him to try and find some comfort in familiar things: the girl he knows belongs to his son and the chain that recalls his glory days. Could he be, not just twisted, but honestly missing his wife?

Okay, far fetched. I admit. But Martin is just as big on psychology as plot and I think this interpretation of Tywin's actions is within the realm of possibility.

[Ran]

Thanks for sharing your views! It's an interesting comparison, the way that Tywin might view using a prositute and using a privy as a sort of biological necessity, and it's one that I've been considering. It gives some potential insight into the man, and would also explain part of his distaste for Tyrion's whoring: Tyrion gets too close to the prostitutes. He's supposed to use them, and instead gets used, and that's a shameful kind of weakness.

We'll see what future books reveal. :)

[A wilding]

As this thread is now nearing cut off, I though it might be an idea to try to sum up from my PoV.

Roughly speaking there are two theories relating to Varys having a hand in Tywin's death; the strong theory and the weak theory. The strong theory is that espoused by Happy Ent. The weak theory is merely that Varys intended Tyrion to go up that ladder.

To my mind the evidence for the weak theory is overwhelming. Varys is no idiot or he would never have survived so long. He allowed Tyrion to see the mosaic when he didn't have to, when he must have known that Tyrion could identify it. As a spymaster, he has to watch his every word, yet goaded Tyrion with the unnecessary "your father's chamber now" comment. He then gave detailed instructions with only token protests. Even on my first read it seemed obvious to me that he was somehow setting Tyrion up.

Yet, once you have accepted the weak theory and have thought about it some more, loose ends start appearing. Why did Varys spend so much time facilitating Tyrion/Shae in ACoK and ASoS? Why in particular did he plant her in Tyrion's bed before the Battle of the Blackwater, revealing the existence of the secret passage for no obvious purpose? Why did Varys bow to Jaime's threats and release Tyrion and disappear, when at the very least he had the alternative of disappearing without releasing Tyrion (it does, after all, seem unlikely that Tyrion would have agreed to serve Dany before the events in that last Tyrion chapter)? What exactly did Varys expect to achieve by sending Tyrion up that ladder? Wasn't Tyrion apparently extremely lucky to be able to kill both Shae and Tywin and escape without any alarm being raised?

This is why my position is basically that of Maia and Mormont from earlier in this thread, a slightly reluctant acceptance of the strong theory. I like best the flavour of it in which Varys had already fatally poisoned Tywin, before Tyrion ever got there. This makes Varys much less vulnerable to mischance; what actually happened was the best outcome for him, but it would not be disastrous if Tyrion refused to go up, or went up and was overpowered by guards before he could do anything.

Still, the strong theory is not necessarily inconsistent with the idea that Tywin used whores, even if it requires Varys to steer things so that, of all whores, it was Shae that was in his bed that night.

[shadowbinding shoe]

The 'weak theory' (though I disagree with it of course) has an interesting angle:

in it Varys expects Tyrion to fail miserably (who'd expect him to successfully murder his mofo father?) but it's all part of the plan. A straightforward assassination would seem inconceivable to everybody (except Cercei?) but the court has already been inundated to the idea that Tyrion can and will poison his relatives. So Tywin's guards catch Tyrion during the failed attempt and a few days later Tywin dies of horrible stomach aches. "He's done it again!" everyone will shout. Maybe they'll even forget Varys' guilt in this

[Lampmonster]

[quote name='loverandawriter' post='1559913' date='Oct 17 2008, 18.23']Fascinating thread!

I'm really close the believing this theory and I now believe there does have to be a better reason for Shae to be in Tywin's bed other than Tywin just being horny or perverted. However, I still think Shae is there at Tywin--not Varys'--invitation.

I also think that, by setting this scene in a privvy Martin gives us a huge clue into Tywin's world view and thus, into the heart of this scene.

This scene is all about Tywin. Tywin who doesn't rage when Tyrion weds a "whore"--but who procedes to teach his son a "valuable" lesson. Tywin who later can't remember who Tysha was, and acts puzzled that Tyrion would bring up something so long and dead.

Tywin doesn't get personal very often. He hardly ever smiles (not since Joanna died) and acts honestly puzzled when other characters express rage at the actions or situations he forces them into. He doesn't understand when Jaime rejects the gift of Oathkeeper. He doesn't understand when Cersei rails against getting married again. And he certainly can't comprehend that Tyrion--a highborn man-- would love a whore. Tywin, you see, isn't overly dutiful or cold--I think he just has to have everything in its right place performing its right and proper function. Whores are for shagging. Children are made to obey their parents. And privvies are made to shit in. End of story.

So, my theory is, far from this being an offshoot of a Varys/Targ Restoration plot, this scene is Martin at last revealing what makes Tywin tick. Tywin knows he's just come from shagging Shae, but he doesn't think about her when Tyrion confronts him. Shae is just another facility to him. Something for his own personal use. Like the privvy. He needed sex, so he had Shae. Now he needs to relieve himself, so he goes to the toilet. If Shae is dead, she's a whore, who cares? Would he spare a thought for a broken privvy?

The irony is, that Tywin has been bedding Shae for an extremely human reason: subconciously he wants to understand his family. And Tyrion in particular. He can't understand why he, who has always led such a good public life and who loved Joanna, would be cursed with a mawkish, Dwarf son with a weakness for low women. I think Tywin is fine with low women as long as they are in their proper place. Therefore, he has no qualms about bedding Shae--but he may be doing it as a subconcious attempt to understand what all the fuss is about.

Exlaining the Hand's chain around Shae's neck is where my argument weakens. I can personally see Tywin doing this. If this scene turns out to be what it seems at face value and Tywin is a hypocrit I wouldn't feel disappointed. However, there are psychological reasons he might bed his son's whore while she's wearing his chain of office.

It's true Tywin beat another whore for wearing his mother's jewlery, but the Hand's chain is his property and has (like Shae!) been handled by many men. It's not the sacred treasures of a dead mother. Making Shae wear it could easily be a gesture of ownership, power and a reassertion of control. Tywin wants to be the most powerful and controlling ruler in Westeros and he is associated with gold/materialism etc. Putting his "hands" on Shae could be a symbolic gesture, signifying an end to the chaos that her relationship with Tyrion caused.

Also, Tywin was once Hand in this very room with Joanna. What if she used to wear the chain when they had sex? Tywin's legacy is falling apart and it wouldn't be out of character for him to try and find some comfort in familiar things: the girl he knows belongs to his son and the chain that recalls his glory days. Could he be, not just twisted, but honestly missing his wife?

Okay, far fetched. I admit. But Martin is just as big on psychology as plot and I think this interpretation of Tywin's actions is within the realm of possibility.[/quote]


Well said. I think you're pretty much on the mark, as this conforms to other people's views expressed in the book as well. Even Cat says something about Eddard having needs, and that she wasn't surprised that he might have had some woman on the campaign. This indicates a societal view of lowborn women and women in general. Some of the characters obviously see through this charade: Tyrion, Jaime, Jon: but most do not.

[Guest Other-in-law]

A Wildling,

that's a good summary and largely reflects by gradual acceptance of the theory. I first admitted that the overwhelmingly solid weak theory (Varys wanted Tyrion to kill his father), and then went most of the way down the slippery slope to the strong theory. There are three different subdivisons of the strong theory that I see as possible, of which you mentioned the weakest:

Maybe Tywin really was having sex with Shae, and since Varys naturally knew all about it, he took advantage of it to manipulate Tyrion (Tywin still gets poisoned for this, which is why it's not a subset of the weak theory). I see this as conceivable, it all hinges on tywin's true character, which is difficult to be certain of.

The strongest is the full theory, but I think I prefer a slightly weaker version: 'Varys drugging Shae' is left out. I'm not sure why this part is necessary, and it's given plenty for the naysayers to bellyache about. Is it to keep Shae from wandering off while Tywin is on the pot? I suspect that whores must be well accustomed to boredom since they hang around a lot of the time waiting for clients to choose them. In Shae's case, she had next to nothing to do while waiting between Tyrion's visits when she was set up in her manse. And she must have a good idea of how powerful and important Tywin is, so she wouldn't want to risk his wrath by displeasing him, even if he was too busy to go to bed in a timely manner.

[Roi Woodt]

[quote name='Nadie' post='1559634' date='Oct 17 2008, 20.43']My answer is simple: I don't see how it matters. I could see it being either way.[/quote] In my opinion it does matter, either she just satisfied a customer or she is just being forced to have sex, like Tysha and felt asleep as if nothing happened.

Another strange thing, however, not impossible. But Tywin wasn’t able to shit the entire period that Tyrion needed to enter the Hand’s room and kill Shae. What was he waiting for? Apparently he had to go, because he left Shae while she was sleeping, sneaked out the bed and went to the toilet. Is it another coincequence that at that particular moment Tywin wasn't able to shit?

[Enthousiasmic words to the crowd]
Widling, Other-in-law, people of the North, don't give in, it isn't neccesary, we are growing strong, is what Happy Ent would say. Even if we despise Tywin Lannister, which we do, he didn't do whores. Least of all his son's whore. He was cruel, he was evil and he was pride, but he wasn't sick.
[/end propaganda]

[Ran]

[quote]Why did Varys spend so much time facilitating Tyrion/Shae in ACoK and ASoS? Why in particular did he plant her in Tyrion's bed before the Battle of the Blackwater, revealing the existence of the secret passage for no obvious purpose? Why did Varys bow to Jaime's threats and release Tyrion and disappear, when at the very least he had the alternative of disappearing without releasing Tyrion (it does, after all, seem unlikely that Tyrion would have agreed to serve Dany before the events in that last Tyrion chapter)? What exactly did Varys expect to achieve by sending Tyrion up that ladder? Wasn't Tyrion apparently extremely lucky to be able to kill both Shae and Tywin and escape without any alarm being raised?[/quote]

These aren't all loose ends.

To suppose that Varys did the Tyrion and Shae thing, or helped sneak Shae into Tyrion's rooms via that passage and made sure that she could glimpse the mosaic and was clever enough to make mention of it to Tyrion, and so on and so forth, because about a year prior to the end of ASoS he foresaw the possibility that Tyrion might end up in the dungeons and have a falling out with his family and so on and so forth is just sort of, uh, looney.

The true mark of a grand conspiracy theory is when [i]everything[/i] starts to look like a loose end that must somehow connect up as part of the theory.

The easier answer to some of these questions is because it's what Varys [i]does[/i]. He ingratiates himself. And Tyrion knows it, and Varys knows Tyrion knows it, but he still does it because it still gives him some leverage on Tyrion: scratch my back, I scratch yours, and of course holding the fact that he knows the relationship and can reveal it if he so chooses. Varys and Tyrion have an almost collegial relationship with one another, facilitated by this sneaking-about-with-Shae business, and I expect that's how Varys wanted it.

This doesn't take away the possibility that at the very moment Tyrion demanded to know how to get up there, that he decided that maybe the end result of that would be even more useful than just taking Tyrion away, and he'd take the risk (especially when an enraged, rather strong Tyrion looks set to carry out his threat of murder). But this conspiracy stuff where Varys had to personally have a deliberate, all-knowing hand in every single event leading up to that moment is simply too much.

[Roi Woodt]

[quote name='Ran' post='1561255' date='Oct 20 2008, 10.23']To suppose that Varys did the Tyrion and Shae thing, or helped sneak Shae into Tyrion's rooms via that passage and made sure that she could glimpse the mosaic and was clever enough to make mention of it to Tyrion, and so on and so forth, because about a year prior to the end of ASoS he foresaw the possibility that Tyrion might end up in the dungeons and have a falling out with his family and so on and so forth is just sort of, uh, looney.[/quote]
An important part of the theory is that Varys is a juggler. It is not plotted from the start. He is juggling al his time in Kings Landing. He is juggling with the truth of Robert’s children, he is juggling with killing a hand, he is juggling with Dany and the assasin, he is juggling with Tyrion’s anger, juggling with information, etc. The time in which Tyrion is in kings Landing, Varys is juggling with him. He shows Shae the mosaic and later he hears (from his birds) that Shae told about that mosaic to Tyrion. He writes this downs (as we see in court, he has everything written down) and moves on, this Tyrion ball and Shae ball still in the air. He arranges these meetings with Shae, and because of this meetings he creates for himself a stronger grip on these two balls, he can almost trow them in the air blindly by now. And he keeps on juggling. Tyrion is suspect of a terrible crime, oops, his ball almost falls, but not entirely, Varys keeps on juggling. Because another ball of his, himself being a goalkeeper, is another ball he has firmly in his grip. Varys keeps on juggling. Shae “confesses” in court. The Shae ball is still up as well. It is a difficult job, but master juggler as he is, he keeps on juggling. Another ball, the poison to glue people to the toilet is in his pocket as well.

So he has the Shae ball, the blackcell Tyrion ball, the goalkeeper ball and the poison ball in his pocket. And he has his notes. Now comes the trick, he picks the lethal poison ball from his pocket, used it on Tywin and throws it in the air as well. Four balls, which is slightly difficult, but he keeps on juggling. And now his master trick, he throws them all together high up in the air. He hopes to catch one and drop the other three; however, he does not know what will happen up there. His juggling was good, but sometimes balls have a will of their own. It’s up to the balls now. He however does know that he wont’ catch the lethal poison Tywin ball , the Whoring Shae ball and the goalkeeper ball, he is only aiming to catch the black cell Tyrion ball. But even if something happened and he isn’t capable of catching that ball either. Nothing is really lost, because he is the juggler and he will find himself some new balls. It would be a good ball to have to keep juggling with, but he doesn’t need that ball.

See, whatever he did beforehand is just plain juggling. At the end he makes a pattern with the balls he has and see what happens. I do know that all this talking about balls is strange when talking about an eneuch, but this is how I think that Varys plays the game.

[Szar]

It's not just that it gives him leverage: It makes Varys important to Tyrion. Varys has to make himself important to stay alive, and at the time, Tyrion is the most powerful person in King's Landing. He's keeping himself alive.

I like the idea about Tywin using prostitutes the way he'd use a tool, but I'm not entirely convinced.

[Ran]

Roi,

That may well be true that he's a juggler, but these things do not mean they are loose ends as wildling calls them. To call them "loose ends" suggests that they need some grander explanation that fits them all together into a conspiracy.

The poison thing is and remains too ludicrous for me to ever buy, but whatever floats your boat. ;)

[Happy Ent]

[quote name='Ran' post='1561255' date='Oct 20 2008, 10.23']because about a year prior to the end of ASoS he foresaw the possibility that Tyrion might end up in the dungeons and have a falling out with his family and so on and so forth is just sort of, uh, looney.[/quote]
That would be indeed ludicruous, and I don’t think anyone on this thread has said anything like that. I certainly haven’t, and I’ve taken the extreme “strong theory” position.

The development that Varys was able to foresee before the battle of the Blackwater was that Tyrion would not be the king’s hand for much longer. In the worst case, [i]Tywin[/i] would become hand again. At that time already (I claim) Varys was trying to puzzle together some reason for Tyrion to kill Tywin. His best bet at that time was Tyrion’s irrational infatuation for Shae, so he worked on that angle.

Varys could in no way foresee that Tywin, Littlefinger, and the Tyrells would do most of the hard work for him: Tyrion’s disinheritance, the Tysha backstory, the false accusation of regicide, the calluous trial, etc., to the point of the (false) Shae–Tywin affair hardly registering any more.

[b]ETA[/b] Not that it matters, but my Timeline Alarm just went off. The battle of the Blackwater is just a few months before Tyrion’s release, maybe half a year. We know this primarily because of Lollys. She’s already maybe a few weeks pregnant at the Blackwater. My own timeline has the Blackwater at the last week of October, and Tywin’s death somewhere in January or February.

[Roi Woodt]

[quote name='Ran' post='1561315' date='Oct 20 2008, 13.34']Roi,
The poison thing is and remains too ludicrous for me to ever buy, but whatever floats your boat. ;)[/quote]
Damn, you can’t say I didn’t try... ;)

[s]Btw, I just got a mail back from grrm and clearly states that it was indeed Varys that planted Shae.[/s]
I give up now, I have used all that I could think of. :(

[Maia]

Ran, I think that Varys saw early on that he could use Tyrion to cause trouble for the Lannisters, if only Tyrion's loyalty to his family could be broken. That's an entirely reasonable conclusion, given how Tyrion wasn't shy about airing his bad relationships with both Tywin and Cersei. So, all that Varys needed was a lever and possible use of Shae as such was also rather obvious. All the details came later, IMHO, as Varys adapted this basic goal to changing circumstances.
And that's how most lengthy plans work, both in RL and in ASOIAF (see: LF plots, Varys/Illyrio's plot concerning Dany, etc.) I am now reading a biography of Henri III of France and boy, did they delight in complicated, somewhat ridiculous plots, that occasionally even worked! Even a royal bastard as the loyal assassin of the Crown trope is to be found there.

[Happy Ent]

[quote name='Roi Woodt' post='1561324' date='Oct 20 2008, 13.50'][s]Btw, I just got a mail back from grrm and clearly states that it was indeed Varys that planted Shae.[/s][/quote]
Well, I have a an early galley proof of the advanced reader’s copy of [i]Storm[/i], and there the last line is:
[quote]But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about widow’s blood was just another lie.
Widow’s blood did not, in the end, make shit smell like roses.[/quote]
I think that would have clinched it, and always wondered why they decided to change that line in the last minute.

[shadowbinding shoe]

Happy Ent - The problem with your theory is that it is built wholecloth on might have beens that never actually happened and it pigeonholes the behaviors of all the players in this night's play on various ad hoc poisons Varys conveniently sprinkles on the scene.

Why does Varys give no motivation for Tyrion to climb up the ladder and kill his father? Well he might well have made such a motivational speech had circumstances made it ...

Why does Varys holds back from acting to rescue Tyrion until someone threatens him into it? Well he might well have done it on his own had someone not been there to threaten him. All the evidence clearly points that ...

And the list continues. Yet none of these things happened in the books. Their your alternative history of the story.

And how about the Shae accidentally spies details of the dragon room and then conveniently tells Tyrion about it? What if she didn't manage or bother to see it? Or didn't tell Tyrion about them? And as you say this is the last chance Varys has of taking Shae to Tyrion through that room. This plot to reveal details of this underground room is not at all relevant in fact to anything unless Tyrion somehow ends up in that room. And does that happen how exactly?

[Happy Ent]

[quote name='shadowbinding shoe' post='1561342' date='Oct 20 2008, 14.20']And the list continues. Yet none of these things happened in the books. Their your alternative history of the story.[/quote]
That’s what makes this a [i]theory[/i]. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s an internally consistent explanation for a lot of phenomena, at variance with [i]none[/i]. Moreover, I find this explanation parsimonious (in that it appeals to no new “tricks” – everything is a repeat of actions we’ve already seen before, such as poisoning to keep people on the loo, Shae being led into the room by Varys), and well aligned with a surface interpretation of the motivations and habits of the involved characters.

But it doesn’t pretend to be anything more.

[quote]This plot to reveal details of this underground room is not at all relevant in fact to anything unless Tyrion somehow ends up in that room. And does that happen how exactly?[/quote]
Tyrion ends up in that room by being led there by Varys.

If Tyrion doesn’t connect the dots himself (“Your lord father's bedchamber now.”) then Varys could just tell him. Or he could even [i]lead[/i] him up the ladder, it’s not as if Tyrion could say “Wait, I think the exit is [i]this[/i] way!”. Varys has led Tyrion through the tunnel system for a while, why not lead him up the ladder? “Oh, by the way, while we’re here, this is where the secret entrance to your old bedroom was. Thought you might want to know. Wait? Did I hear [i]moaning[/i]?” Only less clumsy, which is why sentient tries make bad spymasters.

[alguien]

[quote name='Roi Woodt' post='1561249' date='Oct 20 2008, 02.47']In my opinion it does matter, either she just satisfied a customer or she is just being forced to have sex, like Tysha and felt asleep as if nothing happened.[/quote]

Well in that case, I'd lean towards the "she just satisfied a customer" option, since when Tyrion enters the room, she is drowsing and seems comfortable waiting for Tywin.

[quote name='Roi Woodt' post='1561249' date='Oct 20 2008, 02.47']Another strange thing, however, not impossible. But Tywin wasn’t able to shit the entire period that Tyrion needed to enter the Hand’s room and kill Shae. What was he waiting for? Apparently he had to go, because he left Shae while she was sleeping, sneaked out the bed and went to the toilet. Is it another coincequence that at that particular moment Tywin wasn't able to shit?[/quote]

Not really, because he was reading. Haven't you ever sat on the can with a newspaper? Anyway, there's more than enough time for him to be reading and then he doesn't try to defecate when Tyrion barges in. (leading to GRRM's oh-so-memorable last line!)


[quote name='Roi Woodt' post='1561249' date='Oct 20 2008, 02.47']Widling, Other-in-law, people of the North, don't give in, it isn't neccesary, we are growing strong, is what Happy Ent would say. Even if we despise Tywin Lannister, which we do, he didn't do whores. Least of all his son's whore. He was cruel, he was evil and he was pride, but he wasn't sick.
[/end propaganda][/quote]

See this reason for supporting the theory is, to me, simply odd. I'd much rather a conspiracy be purposed because people believe in Varys's ability rather than Tywin's sexual purity.

He did do whores. I can see him totally objectifying lessers, especially servants and such. And for him, it would make no matter whether she was his son's whore or not, because there was no emotion attached to the act. To Tywin, whores were just vessels to carry out his bodily functions, much like a privy. It didn't matter that his son sat on that privy at one point, now he needed to use it.

[Maia]

[quote name='shadowbinding shoe' post='1561342' date='Oct 20 2008, 07.20']various ad hoc poisons Varys conveniently sprinkles on the scene.[/quote]

I fail to see how poisons that were lovingly and in detail described in text could be termed "ad hoc". And one of them - "Widow's Blood", has been described without being used in a major way, unless Tyrion spiked Cersei's food with it. Either way, it looks very much like "Chekhov's gun".

[quote]Why does Varys give no motivation for Tyrion to climb up the ladder and kill his father?[/quote]

Because Jaime already gave him all the motivation he might have needed?

[quote]Why does Varys holds back from acting to rescue Tyrion until someone threatens him into it?[/quote]

Why rescue Tyrion before he has been sentenced? Not even Jaime, who actually cared about Tyrion's personal welfare unlike Varys, tried to do that. And it is pure speculation that Varys "held back". It was the sentencing that determined the timing of the rescue, not anything else.


[quote]And how about the Shae accidentally spies details of the dragon room and then conveniently tells Tyrion about it? What if she didn't manage or bother to see it? Or didn't tell Tyrion about them?[/quote]

The point is that Varys _knew_ that she did and worked with that. It has been demonstrated yet again a short time previously, during the trial, that he had exhaustive documentation about everything Tyrion said or did while in his chambers. Why did GRRM think that we needed this little reminder, hm?