iheartseverus Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='SFDanny' post='1683857' date='Feb 12 2009, 00.22']he is poised to play a larger role in this story. It will be fun to watch, whatever develops for him, and I'm betting he turns into a much more interesting character in the future.[/quote] Good! Glad you think so. Unlike most everybody else in the world, I guess, I like his hair, I like his arrogance, I like his maybe-madness, I like his of-the-nightness. Wish I knew why he did the head-whack at Myrcella... Come ON, George. :tantrum: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinso Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='iheartseverus' post='1683862' date='Feb 12 2009, 00.29']Wish I knew why he did the head-whack at Myrcella...[/quote] To start a war between Dorne and the Iron Throne. That's what everyone there wanted, except for old gouty Doran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shapur Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='iheartseverus' post='1683862' date='Feb 12 2009, 07.29']Good! Glad you think so. Unlike most everybody else in the world, I guess, I like his hair, I like his arrogance, I like his maybe-madness, I like his of-the-nightness. Wish I knew why he did the head-whack at Myrcella... Come ON, George. :tantrum:[/quote] I like Darkstar too. I, plainly, [i]adore[/i] him. As it is said by Rinso, he tried to kill Myrcella to start a war between Dorne and... well, pretty much the rest of Westeros. He proposed it earlier, but Arianne objected. And if the secret-Targ theory isn'correct( which I think is the case, it doesn't fit with the timeline), he's the most dangerous man in Dorne because of his martial prowess. So, I don't think that GRRM has to make him more interesting. He's allready. But I'm still waiting to hear more of the Sword of Night. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I don't know if this means anything, but I just ran an anagram search for Gerold Dayne. One of the first hits was Deadly Goner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howlin' Howland Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='iheartseverus' post='1683854' date='Feb 12 2009, 00.13']1. Nah. It negates everything we know about Ned, everything GRRM has taken such care to establish about this rigidly honorable man. Two affairs? Two women? Two bastard kids? It would make me so angry because it would be what I think of as a 'cheat,' an author that leads you deliberately a character's path only to suddenly do a u-turn and have the character perform totally out of context, totally unlike the personna that's been established for him.[/quote] Actually this is kind of why I like the theory. Eddard only has one affair and there is a double irony. It's Ironic that people think Jon is his son. And the smart readers who figure out that Jon is his nephew (partly because he could never father a bastard) get hit by the whammy that he really did father a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='Howlin' Howland' post='1684103' date='Feb 12 2009, 08.36']I don't know if this means anything, but I just ran an anagram search for Gerold Dayne. One of the first hits was Deadly Goner.[/quote] Well, we'll just have to add a little context and punctuation, and things will still be fine with Streak. Darkstar approaches Jaime, sword in hand. "You're finished, goner!" Jaime: "What, you're supposed to be [i]bad[/i]?" Darkstar: "Deadly, goner!" See, now everything's fine again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen the FatManderly Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If Gerold Dayne is working with (or influenced by) Littlefinger, he could reemerge in that context. I suspect LF instigated the Queen Myrcella plot -- it seems in keeping with his m.o. In AFFC Dayne is handicapped by the foolish group of youths he's with. He needs Something Better to do with his time, and he can be taken off the leash. The Darkstar mocking is juvenile. It's part of some strange obsession, demanding all of GRRM's characters avoid a whole list of certain pre-set expectations. Every character must have a stupid growth curve or they're wooden, every character must have X amount of flaws or they're too perfect, every character must... it's silly. By living in fear of the stereotype, they become stereotypical. Arya is written directly contrary to a certain stereotype of the guilt-ridden, reluctant hero, and some don't like her because she's too much like Jack Bauer, as if that's a bad thing. People are reading fantasy -- oh, but not [i]that[/i] kind of fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Darkstar is disliked because his entire introduction was ridiculous. GRRM was trying too hard to make him sound badass and it failed miserably, that's why people don't like Darkstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I think to be rehabilitated, we'll have to know his reasons for trying to foment a war between Dorne and the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. BTW, the idea that Jon has a twin dates from ACoK at least. I think I put forward, or at least supported, the idea that Meera Reed might in fact be Jon's half-sister (which makes it even more Luke-and-Leia, but it's as if Luke was raised by Bail Organa and Leia was raised by moisture farmers on Tatooine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote]The Darkstar mocking is juvenile.[/quote]Well, [i]yes.[/i] I don't think it's because Darkstar doesn't have his reasonable quota of excessive angst or Deep Character flaws. It's because it's really easy to mock an overly arrogant dramatic dickhead whose only claim to fame is a failure to kill a little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Lee Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote]BTW, the idea that Jon has a twin dates from ACoK at least. I think I put forward, or at least supported, the idea that Meera Reed might in fact be Jon's half-sister (which makes it even more Luke-and-Leia, but it's as if Luke was raised by Bail Organa and Leia was raised by moisture farmers on Tatooine).[/quote] Sorry Ran, I just don't get it. How do you think Jon and Meera might be related? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen the FatManderly Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='Kalbear' post='1684433' date='Feb 12 2009, 13.22']It's because it's really easy to mock an overly arrogant dramatic dickhead whose only claim to fame is a failure to kill a little girl.[/quote] Doran Martell takes him very seriously. How is he "overly arrogant"? Can "the most dangerous man in Dorne" even BE overly arrogant? How is he "dramatic"? Because a little Princess asks him if he's Sword of the Morning, and he says he's of the night? How is he a "dickhead"? Because he's jealous of the respect accorded his cousin? It's just a strange reaction to a character who has a good amount of intrigue attached to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aplomb Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='Jaqen the FatManderly' post='1684498' date='Feb 12 2009, 15.00']Doran Martell takes him very seriously. How is he "overly arrogant"? Can "the most dangerous man in Dorne" even BE overly arrogant?[/quote] It could be that his overwhelming arrogance is exactly what makes him so dangerous. It's certainly not his sword skills, at least against unarmed little girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote]How is he "overly arrogant"? Can "the most dangerous man in Dorne" even BE overly arrogant?[/quote]Yes. I'm the most dangerous man in my house. Does that make me all that scary? George Bush was the most dangerous man in America. Should he be super arrogant because of it? He was the most dangerous man in Dorne not because he's a badass fighter, but because he wanted to provoke a war. [quote]How is he "dramatic"? Because a little Princess asks him if he's Sword of the Morning, and he says he's of the night?[/quote]Yes. I don't even know why you have to ask that question. He also dyes his hair. [quote]How is he a "dickhead"? Because he's jealous of the respect accorded his cousin?[/quote]I think it would be because of where he [i]tried to kill a little girl[/i] so he [i]could start a war[/i]. Perhaps your definition of dickhead and mine differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCrawler Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ...I always thought "I am of the [b]Night[/b]" was just an ironic throw by an annoyed Darkstar, with peopel constantly bringing up "Sword of the [b]Morning[/b]". I don't think he meant it in "look at me, I'm totally badass" sense. It never annoyed me, I thought it was pretty funny actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen the FatManderly Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 [quote name='Kalbear' post='1684510' date='Feb 12 2009, 14.06']He was the most dangerous man in Dorne not because he's a badass fighter, but because he wanted to provoke a war.[/quote] No. That doesn't follow. Most of Dorne wanted to fight a war, and most of Prince Martell's own family was trying to provoke that war. We are never told why Darkstar wants a war. We are never told why he's so dangerous. The presumption is he's working for/with someone, or has unknown goals of his own. Presumably he's not a throwaway character - so he'll have his part to play and show how dangerous he is - or isn't. There's a very long thread ready for people who want to say "huh huh, his hair's funny, huh huh, I'm Jaqen the FatMan - I'm of the internets". But some think he's closely tied to one or more of the major plots unfolding in book 6 and 7 ... though it may be 2015 before we find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 One note: [quote]He shook his head. "Would that we had. You were a fool to make him part of this. Darkstar is the most dangerous man in Dorne. You and he have done us all great harm."[/quote] I don't think Doran calling him "the most dangerous man in Dorne" is intended to go with, "... because he wants to start a war." He's saying that Dayne was already the most dangerous man in Dorne before Arianne pulled him into her plot, and what possessed her to involve such a dangerous person, etc. Why is he so dangerous? He's obviously a dangerous fighter (Sandor, Gregor, the Red Viper, etc. -- they would have failed to have killed Myrcella, we all know this, so lets not bring that up again) from what's said about him. But this probably isn't something that would make him dangerous in the kind of context Doran is thinking about. I figure it's his cruelty and capriciousness that makes him so dangerous. He's like Oberyn in that ... but Oberyn was a Martell, so that mitigated the harm he could do with his peculiar ideas. Gerold Dayne is a loose cannon, however, powerful enough thanks to being Knight of High Hermitage, and with an interest in stirring up trouble for his own ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartseverus Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Or, could he be the most dangerous man in Dorne because of his bloodline? I've seen theories that he's really a Targ and/or Jon's twin via Lyanna and Rhaegar being raised in secret by Ashara at High Hermitage. (Actually, I'm having trouble keeping all the various who's-your-daddy theories straight. Hopefully, we'll learn a good deal in aDwD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You're probably right, Ran. At the end of the day it's the same point regardless of why he's called that. He's not called the most dangerous man because he's an asskicker; he's called it because he's a dick who also has access to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aplomb Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The irony is, if you were a Lannister who knew what was really going on, you'd consider gouty ol' do-nothing Doran the most dangerous man in Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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