Watchmen II (Spoilers ahoy)

[Liffguard]

[quote name='Samalander' post='1711782' date='Mar 7 2009, 18.37']I also don't see why the fact they couldn't punish Adrian publically meant they had to let him get away with his crimes privately. Dr. M could have vaporized him just like he did to Rorschach. Why let him live?[/quote]

Veidt convinced them that if they killed him, there would be too high a risk of his plan being uncovered in the subsequent investigation. Someone as rich, famous and important as Veidt can't just disappear without some major official mojo getting involved.

[Bellis]

I liked the movie quite a bit, despite all the flaws that have been mentioned (awkward musical choices, too much violence, sex). The more I think about it, the more I feel that I liked it mainly because I really like the [i]story[/i] in the GN. In that way, the movie was not a travesty or a betrayal of the GN at all. Neither did it particularly elevate the material or make it accessible to a whole new audience (unlike, say, the LoTR movies, which were hugely popular among non-genre fans). The people I went with who were not familiar with the GN pretty much hated this movie with a passion - which goes along with the general critical reaction.

[Fatuous]

[quote name='Maltaran' post='1711734' date='Mar 7 2009, 11.47']That line comes earlier, after he electrocutes the second of Big Figure's goons.[/quote]

Yes, I know because I mentioned that. Nite Owl himself comments on the toilet being flushed in the comic. So. Really. Blood. Blood? Are sure it just wasn't reflecting the fire or something?

Here's my problem: I can imagine Rorschach going all out violent on guys bigger than he is but since Big Figure is more of a comic figure, the only reason he ended up in the toilet was because there wasn't a locker handy.

[Samalander]

[quote name='Liffguard' post='1711790' date='Mar 7 2009, 20.49']Veidt convinced them that if they killed him, there would be too high a risk of his plan being uncovered in the subsequent investigation. Someone as rich, famous and important as Veidt can't just disappear without some major official mojo getting involved.[/quote]
This part was totally cut from the film, wasn't it?

[Liffguard]

[quote name='Samalander' post='1711838' date='Mar 7 2009, 20.01']This part was totally cut from the film, wasn't it?[/quote]

Now that I think about it, it was.

[Ser Aardvark]

[quote name='Fatuous' post='1711794' date='Mar 7 2009, 13.54']Yes, I know because I mentioned that. Nite Owl himself comments on the toilet being flushed in the comic. So. Really. Blood. Blood? Are sure it just wasn't reflecting the fire or something?

Here's my problem: I can imagine Rorschach going all out violent on guys bigger than he is but since Big Figure is more of a comic figure, the only reason he ended up in the toilet was because there wasn't a locker handy.[/quote]
Actually the coloring of the comic makes it hard to tell if it is (page 20 Chapter 8 for those of you keeping up) but the assumption is that it is both.

[Maltaran]

[quote name='Fatuous' post='1711794' date='Mar 7 2009, 18.54']Yes, I know because I mentioned that. Nite Owl himself comments on the toilet being flushed in the comic. So. Really. Blood. Blood? Are sure it just wasn't reflecting the fire or something?[/quote]

It certainly looked like blood in the film, flowing out from under the toilet door.

[ProfSpender]

I basically agree with most your comments - the movie was, on the whole, very good, and Comedian, Manhattan and Rorschach were, IMO, perfectly translated to the screen. I didn't mind the sex scene, and I too was impressed/distracted by Doc Manhattan's penis (it is bigger in the film than in the graphic novel, isn't it?). The fight scenes weren't too bad either, as they basically just showed what happend in the graphic novel in more detail - plus, they didn't go on and on for ever like some of the added scenes in the LotR movies (like the endless fight against the cave troll - it just won't end!) There were only two major problems:
1) There should have been more of the minor characters who are at ground zero in NY - the newpaper guy, the comic reader, the cops, the taxi driver. You all know what Stalin said about death as tragedy and as statistic, and without these figures, the victims of Adrian's plans were just numbers.
2) Ozy-freaking-mandias! Even though I wasn't treated to the German accent, the film Ozzy was horrible. As a result, the finale didn't really work well (in the comic, it's more or less "Ozymandias shows a new kind of awesome on every new page"); I also feel that the plan wasn't explained enough.

I saw it with my brother and his girlfriend - my brother and I both know the graphic novel and enjoyed the film, his girlfriend didn't know the comic and thought it was a horrible film.

[Nous]

I just saw it. Very well made film, I have to say. The visuals were amazing, and the music selections were bold and well made. Even the already infamous owlship sex scene didn't bother me. I think some of the reactions to it were because we've been conditioned to expect graphic violence, but sex scenes are almost always based on hinting, and making them explicit like this is jarring. Snyder likes his sex scenes almost as explicit as his violence.

This film was very loyal to the graphic novel, as others have said. This was it's biggest problem, as it's practically bursting at its considerable 2 h 45 min seams, trying to contain a structure that is just too big and intricate. There was also some overuse of slow motion.

Overall, a good movie, and better than we had any right to expect.

The best comment I've read about this film was what a Finnish blogger heard two teenage girls say after seeing the movie: "I mean, what the fuck? SUPERHERO PORN in some fucking flying owlship! I mean, WHAT THE FUCK?! That was a really sick flick." I get a kick from thinking about how people who go in expecting a regular superhero movie react to it.

[The Pita]

I'm a 16 year old male. I would have absolutely no problem with a twenty minute sex scene, if need be.
But Hallelujah? Gah dammit!

[davos]

[quote]But Hallelujah? Gah dammit![/quote]

I love the song. Almost every version of it I've heard has been very good, though I'm partial to the Rufus Wainwright cover. I've seen it used to often though as part of a soundtrack.

[Werthead]

In a movie this long and filled with so many discussion-worthy things, one thing I think we missed out on here a bit was the (almost) rape scene.

I've seen a [i]lot[/i] of criticism of it, not just for existing (although it seemed to shock the bejesus out of half the people I was in the cinema with), but for the preceding, pretty shocking violence. It was also done in the same graphic, slightly gratuitous manner as much of the rest of the movie, with exaggerated sound effects and a bit too much focusing on Silk Spectre's cleavage. I must admit I was a bit disturbed by it, and not in the manner the director intended.

[Ser Aardvark]

I kind of add that to the list of scenes that Snyder decided to make more violent and longer than in the book (which is a shame considering what he could have used that time for) but yes I would agree that the rape scene came close to crossing the line of bad taste. Those scenes really shouldn't go any longer than they need to and this one went past it.

[jousha]

I agree with many on here that it was a decent movie, but not great. More for the fans and hard to grasp or enjoy for the general audience. A little too drawn out, confusing, and dark for those who haven't read the GN. A good effort on Snyder's part (I disliked [i]300[/i]), but not a complete success.

My girlfriend and sister will always remember it as the hero porn movie because of that unneeded scene. My dad, who has the humor of an 8 year old, kept on talking about the "Smurf with his weiner showing."

[Zahir al Daoud]

I enjoyed it very much. A friend, unfamiliar with the graphic novel, watched it with me and she also enjoyed it thoroughly. The audience seemed "into" it, but maybe this was because it was opening night in Hollywood.

Veidt/Ozmandias didn't quite come "alive" for me, but the other main characters most certainly did. Rorscharch was, of course, one the baddest badasses in history and I totally believed him. The Comedian actually seemed the kind of man who would do all those things and begin to suspect his life was in some sense a waste. Nite Owl remained my favorite, and his relationships with the other characters really turned out to be the emotional glue of the whole thing. Yeah, the fight scenes were awesome as as the whole introduction of this alternate world. It felt as if I should be only a spectator, and yet I was drawn in.

The musical score was a bit jarring now and then, but not much. My roommate was much more upset about this than I was (but he's a real expert on pop music).

My real complaints are two:

1. The makeup was kinda substandard. When used to recreate famous faces (especially Nixon and Kissinger) frankly it looked like latex. As the film [u]Frost/Nixon[/u] show, this was not needed. Nor for many famous persons--Lee Iococca, Pat Buchanan, Ted Koppel, etc.--was it even attempted. Further, the old age makeup simply didn't work. Silk Spectre I and the Comedian both looked like they were wearing makeup.

2. The ebb and flow of the ending didn't quite resonate with me as the ending of the graphic novel did. But perhaps it did for others. I simply didn't feel the real sense that Rorscharch's journal was a wild card that genuinely makes the What-Happens-Next the totally unanswerable but vital question it seemed on the written page. Nor do I think that because such is untranslatable to the screen.

Jon's nudity bothered me, but only in the sense that it would probably bother anyone at all--at first. I quickly grew used to it. Didn't mind the sex scene even a little bit. According to wikipedia, a director's cut will eventually be released at something like three hours and methinks that will be even better.

But overall this was an awesome movie that deserves to be a hit. And no, no sequel is really possible. It is just barely possible a prequel about the Minutemen would be feasible, but only just. But maybe that is because I want to see more of Silhouette (adored the "new" version of the famous VJ Day photo).

[IheartTesla]

I just came back from seeing the movie. Thought it was good, but not great. I havent read the graphic novels yet, so I knew nothing of the actual story going in except what was shown on the screen.

I guess all the characters were essential to the plot, but in such an ensemble cast you are left wishing the movie focused on certain characters more. For instance, I would liked to have seen more of Rorschach and his motivations since I found his character the most fascinating. Also, one question I had was whether Veidt is supposed to be gay. Just a feeling I got, not too many hints about that in the movie.

[Azmure]

Saw it. Loved it. It's not perfect, and it's not the GN (nor could it ever be) but I think Snyder did a pretty damn good job all things considered. Overall, I think it was a much better and more faithful adaptation than any of the LOTR films.

It seems that a lot of the things people are complaining about are things that I particularly liked. The soundtrack was fantastic, I thought. Couldn't fault it. And I found the owlship sex scene hilarious.

Interestingly, all the people I saw it with who hadn't read the GN still really liked it. Two of them said they were going to go out and buy the book the next day, so I guess that can only be a good thing.

[The Man]

I definitely didn't mind the ending change at all. Of all the changes made to the film, that was the least of my complaints.

I agree with the complaints that the violence in this version was too graphic. It was poetic when Rorschach burned that guy's house down with him still inside it in the GN; bashing his head in with a meat cleaver has all the finesse of an Uwe Boll flick. Apart from the over-the-top gore, I thought the fight scenes were extremely well choreographed and the film definitely looked exactly the way I expected it to. The heroes' finesse in combat didn't really bother me in most scenes since I assumed they'd all trained more than average people would have as costumed adventurers.

As for the soundtrack, the only part that bothered me was that awful cover of Desolation Row at the ending, but thankfully you can just walk out for those.

[Guy Kilmore]

[quote name='Zahir al Daoud' post='1712075' date='Mar 7 2009, 21.47']2. The ebb and flow of the ending didn't quite resonate with me as the ending of the graphic novel did. But perhaps it did for others. I simply didn't feel the real sense that Rorscharch's journal was a wild card that genuinely makes the What-Happens-Next the totally unanswerable but vital question it seemed on the written page. Nor do I think that because such is untranslatable to the screen.[/quote]
This also bothered me as well. I think not having Dr. Manhattan say the lines "nothing ever ends" to Veidt really takes the bite out of Rorscharch's journal. We are primed with him having visions of the future and these lines being uttered by him then lend weight to the power of the journal. Instead, you are left with some week inferences.

[Crazydog7]

I liked the charecterization of Rorschach most of all very good. I went in with lowered expectations because I had heard it described as soft porn and overall it was fine. Its amazing the audience reaction to sex on scene some roll their eyes and avert their gaze others act like 12 year olds my favorite of all of those people was the jackass who had to hold his fingers as far apart as possible every time Dr. Manhattan's dong got in the camera. Grow up asshole.

None of the craptacular feats of the Hulk movies or the Fantastic Four but it doesn't break new ground like Iron Man or Dark Knight. Good old fashioned entertainment and considering I didn't much care for the comic I was pleasantly surprised.

Great movie I just will not be seeing it with my mother any time soon.