Zoë Sumra Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='turinturambar' post='1734918' date='Mar 27 2009, 00.39']How can you bring a case to trial because you "don't think you gave consent".[/quote] Under British law the Crown Prosecution Service brings a case, not the victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='turinturambar' post='1734911' date='Mar 26 2009, 20.35']Something done to her? It takes two to have sex ya know. If they both have sex without any clear lack of consent then they are both doing something to each other. She raped him just as much as he raped her. Also, it seems a bit hypocritical of you to call people out for assuming it's her fault when you seem to be doing the same thing in assuming him to be guilty.[/quote] No, it does not take two to have sex. If it did, rape would not exist. She laid on the bed fully clothed. He undressed her. This statement is such utterbullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turinturambar Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='thebadlady' post='1734910' date='Mar 26 2009, 19.35']Poor guy fucked a chick so drunk she has no memory of a large chunk of her evening. Who in gods fucking green hell thinks fucking someone that sloppy drunk is a good idea or even...good? I am all for drunk fucking, not fucking someone who is fucking drunk.[/quote] That is not always easy to tell. First off, it's more difficult to gauge how drunk somebody is if you yourself are drunk. 2nd, some people remember things better than others when drunk. I know people who never seem to be able to remember anything when they get drunk, yet they seemed capable enough at the time. I myself have a very good memory when i drink I remember almost everything the next day, no matter how inebriated I am. Only one time in my life have I experienced a blackout where I don't remember a thing, and I honestly didn't really drink any more than usual and according to people who were at my apartment I was fully functional for several hours carrying on conversation and joking around with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thebadlady Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='turinturambar' post='1734911' date='Mar 26 2009, 19.35']Something done to her? It takes two to have sex ya know. If they both have sex without any clear lack of consent then they are both doing something to each other. She raped him just as much as he raped her. Also, it seems a bit hypocritical of you to call people out for assuming it's her fault when you seem to be doing the same thing in assuming him to be guilty.[/quote] Are you a virgin or something? This is how fucking works (standard fucking, no fees apply) the man's penis goes into the woman's vagina. This is how rape works. The man's penis (or some other object) goes into the woman's (something) but she didn't really *want* any part of the man inside her. If she is so sloppy drunk I doubt she was capable of much more than laying there. The gross factor of fucking an inanimate object aside - that isn't consent. What the hell is so hard about waiting and have sober sex ffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turinturambar Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='Lany Cassandra' post='1734927' date='Mar 26 2009, 19.44']No, it does not take two to have sex. If it did, rape would not exist. She laid on the bed fully clothed. He undressed her. This statement is such utterbullshit.[/quote] And she sucked his dick and in every way it's been explained it sounds as if she was just as willing as he. And in my experience at least, it is not uncommon for a man or a woman to lay on the bed fully clothed before the undressing, nor is it uncommon for one party to undress the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='turinturambar' post='1734918' date='Mar 26 2009, 20.39']How can you bring a case to trial because you "don't think you gave consent". Either you did or you didn't. It's extremely irresponsible to bring something to trial based on opinion. This guy will be paying off lawyer bills for a long time and that's only the most minor of lasting effects he'll see. His reputation is ruined. he may have troubles finding work. It could effect his future relationships. This is something that could chase him for the rest of his life. All because she "thinks" she was too drunk to consent.[/quote] She knows her charater, WE do not. She does not believe she would consent to sex in this situation. She would know better than You or I. She BELIEVES she was raped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='TerraPrime' post='1734840' date='Mar 26 2009, 18.50']But of course the world works this way. Because we know, as a fact, that plenty of men who post in Gen Chat here do not consider cases where a "hot" high school teacher having sex with an underaged male student to be rape. It is, in fact, something to be high-fived about.[/quote] Don't make generalizations. I'm a male poster, and I have repeatedly said in those posts that, in fact, I absolutely consider that to be rape. The hotness of one's partner plays no factor in that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turinturambar Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='Lany Cassandra' post='1734932' date='Mar 26 2009, 19.46']She knows her charater, WE do not. She does not believe she would consent to sex in this situation. She would know better than You or I. She BELIEVES she was raped.[/quote] She should also know that a person's character may change, or inhibitions may drop while intoxicated. There are many things I will do when intoxicated that I will not do when sober. Standards drop, judgement drops, etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='turinturambar' post='1734931' date='Mar 26 2009, 20.46']And she sucked his dick and in every way it's been explained it sounds as if she was just as willing as he. And in my experience at least, it is not uncommon for a man or a woman to lay on the bed fully clothed before the undressing, nor is it uncommon for one party to undress the other.[/quote] From what I read, it's alleged that she "performed a sex act" on him. It doesn't appear that she agrees with that, and it doesn't appear that that information appears in his initial statement. It'll go before the jury. If they find that she did, in fact, perform some kind of sex act on him, that it would be probative, but not by any means determinative, as to her intent. A lot of things in this case are, as of yet, unclear. One thing that's [i]not[/i] unclear is that this woman believes that she was raped. So it should go to trial and it'll get sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='Deluge' post='1734934' date='Mar 26 2009, 20.48']Don't make generalizations. I'm a male poster, and I have repeatedly said in those posts that, in fact, I absolutely consider that to be rape. The hotness of one's partner plays no factor in that idea.[/quote] His "plenty" was based on the actual reactions here when this topic came up...not all to be sure, but more than a majority, so don't take it too personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turinturambar Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='thebadlady' post='1734930' date='Mar 26 2009, 19.45']Are you a virgin or something? This is how fucking works (standard fucking, no fees apply) the man's penis goes into the woman's vagina. This is how rape works. The man's penis (or some other object) goes into the woman's (something) but she didn't really *want* any part of the man inside her. If she is so sloppy drunk I doubt she was capable of much more than laying there. The gross factor of fucking an inanimate object aside - that isn't consent. What the hell is so hard about waiting and have sober sex ffs?[/quote] Did you not catch "without clear consent"? I know how rape works. It's evident you didn't read my post correctly. And how do you know she was inanimate. Did she not suck his dick? It seems she was capable of quite a bit. And nothing is hard about waiting to sober up before having sex, but let's be honest, drunk sex happens. You said so yourself. Both people were drunk. Both people evidently made the decision to "drunk fuck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='turinturambar' post='1734935' date='Mar 26 2009, 20.48']There are many things I will do when intoxicated that I will not do when sober. Standards drop, judgement drops, etc etc etc.[/quote] Then maybe you shouldn't drink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thebadlady Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='turinturambar' post='1734931' date='Mar 26 2009, 19.46']And she sucked his dick and in every way it's been explained it sounds as if she was just as willing as he. And in my experience at least, it is not uncommon for a man or a woman to lay on the bed fully clothed before the undressing, nor is it uncommon for one party to undress the other.[/quote] Dick sucking does not equal consent. yeah. I love threads like these because..... I love doing the math. 1 out of 4 (or one out of seven, depends on the study) woman is sexually assaulted in the world. Assume that not every one of those women are raped by the same man. I doubt 25% of men are rapists, so with repeat offenders, lets say 5-10% of men are rapists. Threads like these really help you figure out where a certain man falls in the rapist/not rapist line. Perhaps this is a different thread altogether, but I have noticed that gay guys *get it* far better than non gay guys, percentage wise. Why is that? The knowing what it feels like to have someone inside your body and the horror if someone invaded your body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryphon strike Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='Lany Cassandra' post='1734932' date='Mar 27 2009, 10.16']She BELIEVES she was raped.[/quote] And that is the crunch right there Lanny, she believes it yet for all we or she knows she was the aggressor. Thats the problem with this situation. There just is not the evidence to say one way or another as to who raped who. The best thing this guy can do in his own defence is to say she raped him while he was intoxicated. Hell if he had said to the cops he thinks a woman raped him while he was drunk what charges would have been layed then? I can tell you what would have happened he would have been laughed out of the cop shop. So why the double standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='gryphon strike' post='1734949' date='Mar 26 2009, 20.54']And that is the crunch right there Lanny, she believes it yet for all we or she knows she was the aggressor. Thats the problem with this situation. There just is not the evidence to say one way or another as to who raped who. The best thing this guy can do in his own defence is to say she raped him while he was intoxicated. Hell if he had said to the cops he thinks a woman raped him while he was drunk what charges would have been layed then? I can tell you what would have happened he would have been laughed out of the cop shop. So why the double standard?[/quote] But he admitted HE was consenting. I know that we can't solve the issue here, we just don't know enough of the facts, but it is very interesting some peoples views on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponine Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='Lany Cassandra' post='1734932' date='Mar 26 2009, 20.46']She knows her charater, WE do not. She does not believe she would consent to sex in this situation. She would know better than You or I. She BELIEVES she was raped.[/quote] You might just as well make the argument that he knows his character and you do not. He believes that she consented to sex. He would know better than you or I. He believes that the sex was consensual. This isn't any less valid of an argument. I don't know if she was raped or not, but as I know someone who is standing trial for an ALLEGED sexual offense, and suffering greatly at the hands of people who know nothing about the situation, it makes me angry when people buy into allegations wholesale, because of course if a person is accused of a sex crime, they must be guilty. You can't pre-condemn an individual in a specific circumstance based on statistics about rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='Eponine' post='1734956' date='Mar 26 2009, 20.59']You might just as well make the argument that he knows his character and you do not. He believes that she consented to sex. He would know better than you or I. He believes that the sex was consensual. This isn't any less valid of an argument. I don't know if she was raped or not, but as I know someone who is standing trial for an ALLEGED sexual offense, and suffering greatly at the hands of people who know nothing about the situation, it makes me angry when people buy into allegations wholesale, because of course if a person is accused of a sex crime, they must be guilty. You can't pre-condemn an individual in a specific circumstance based on statistics about rape.[/quote] I agree with that. I have said we don't know enough to know one way or the other. I was just trying to stop all the "he should sue her" comments. As I said before this. She isn't lying, but neither was he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 The latest articles point out that the situation in the U.K. concerning consent has grown increasingly murky, and then there are the questions as to why this particular case was pursued when the woman basically couldn't say anything regarding her ability to consent because she couldn't remember. Like I said, it seems to me too wide a net is being cast. And if that's a necessary evil, then at the least they should give the accused the same protection of anonymity receives that the accuser gets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arbor Gold Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='thebadlady' post='1734947' date='Mar 26 2009, 17.53']Threads like these really help you figure out where a certain man falls in the rapist/not rapist line.[/quote] No they most definitely don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turinturambar Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 [quote name='Raidne' post='1734939' date='Mar 26 2009, 19.49']From what I read, it's alleged that she "performed a sex act" on him. It doesn't appear that she agrees with that, and it doesn't appear that that information appears in his initial statement. It'll go before the jury. If they find that she did, in fact, perform some kind of sex act on him, that it would be probative, but not by any means determinative, as to her intent. A lot of things in this case are, as of yet, unclear. One thing that's [i]not[/i] unclear is that this woman believes that she was raped. So it should go to trial and it'll get sorted out.[/quote] Tell that to my buddy who spent time in jail because of a false rape accusation. And I should know, I was in the other room I saw her drag him into the other room and heard pretty much everything that went on. There's a reason I'm so adamant against this. She yelled rape because her boyfriend found out later. She later admitted he didn't rape her and he was let off the hook, but he was lucky. This is why rape cases are so difficult. On the one hand, most legitimate rape incidents are never reported, on the other hand, many are falsely accused of rape. It's such an easy accusation to bring forth and one of the few things that can be convicted simply on testimony alone. I also know another guy who spent several months in jail because a girl gave him a BJ at a party and never called her before. There was even a txt on his phone that said "If you don't date me I'll tell people you raped me". Despite that it was still on its way to trial before he accepted a plea bargain for assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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