MLB Thread

[Myshkin]

Seriously? Why would Clemens deny using anything? Why would Bonds deny it? Why would A-Rod deny it? Unless someone leaks it, does MLB ever actually release the results of what he tested for? If he used steroids he has a lot to gain by denying it and coming up with a story rather than coming clean.

Why did you snip out the rest of what I said? The question wasn't why he would deny using steroids, but why he would make up a lie that could so easily be refuted. If you want to discuss this subject I would appreciate it if you would be intellectually honest, and not take my questions out of context.

[awesome possum]

why he would make up a lie that could so easily be refuted.

Because in addition to being a cheater, he's also an idiot?

[Arakasi]

Because it is a defense that has worked pretty well in the past (see Tejada or others). Heck how many ways can you really deny taking a substance? You can go for the flat plain out denial, or you can blame it on something you unknowingly digested. Drugs taken for a legit medical purpose is about the best scapegoat you can make.

So I guess my question to Myshkin is if you think this is a weak explanation that could be easily refuted, thus making it to you more likely that Manny is clean, than what to you would be a plausible explanation for having the drugs in your system?

[dornish prince]

Because in addition to being a cheater, he's also an idiot?

^this. plaschke or however you spell his name just put manny on blast on espn. it was awesome. :lol:

[grozeng]

Now why would Manny say it was a non-steroid prescription for a health issue if that were not true? Why wouldn't he create a lie that couldn't so easily be refuted? It's pretty easy to check a) if it was a steroid, and b) if it was a prescription for a legitimate health issue.

If Manny used roids in an attempt to better his game, then he can go fuck himself. I'd rather the Dodgers be the worst clean team in baseball than the best dirty team. But if Manny is being suspended for treating a legitimate health issue, then I think MLB is sending a dangerous message to the players.

Maybe he thought it was Flaxseed oil?

[Myshkin]

Because in addition to being a cheater, he's also an idiot?

It's possible; I can't speak to Manny's intelligence. But whatever else Scott Boris is, he's not an idiot. Anyway, like I said above, if Manny was juicing he can go fuck himself, but I'm gonna wait to hear all the facts before I condemn him. Is that because I'm a Dodger fan? Probably. But I'd like to think that I'd feel the same if Manny played for any other team. Unlike most of these guys (Bonds, McGwire, Clemens) there has never been a whisper about Manny juicing, and I don't see the big head, 35 pounds of muscle mass put on in a two month period, or neck pimples that was so evident in those guys. We'll find out soon what exactly Manny tested positive for, and whether or not he had a legitimate medical reason to take it. Then I will pass judgment.

Because it is a defense that has worked pretty well in the past (see Tejada or others). Heck how many ways can you really deny taking a substance? You can go for the flat plain out denial, or you can blame it on something you unknowingly digested. Drugs taken for a legit medical purpose is about the best scapegoat you can make.

I don't recall Tejada saying he had a prescription to treat a medical condition. I recall him saying that someone gave him a B-12 shot.

So I guess my question to Myshkin is if you think this is a weak explanation that could be easily refuted, thus making it to you more likely that Manny is clean, than what to you would be a plausible explanation for having the drugs in your system?

Something that wouldn't involve paperwork that could prove or disprove the story. If he wanted to lie about how the substance got into his system why would he say he had a medical reason and a prescription, rather than saying that it was in something he got over the counter at GNC? If he said it was something he got over the counter at GNC there would be no record to disprove him. As it is now he has to disclose whatever medical condition he has, produce a doctor and paperwork to prove he actually has said condition, and produce the prescription for the medicine.

[Myshkin]

Manny tested positive for a female fertility drug designed to boost testosterone. Doesn't look good for Manny. Looks like he was juicing.

[grozeng]

Something that wouldn't involve paperwork that could prove or disprove the story. If he wanted to lie about how the substance got into his system why would he say he had a medical reason and a prescription, rather than saying that it was in something he got over the counter at GNC? If he said it was something he got over the counter at GNC there would be no record to disprove him. As it is now he has to disclose whatever medical condition he has, produce a doctor and paperwork to prove he actually has said condition, and produce the prescription for the medicine.

If he says it is from a medical condition or prescription then by HIPAA rules he legally does not need to share it. Now MLB could release that he tested positive for "X" since that is not covered by HIPAA. There are no HIPAA protections for OTC drugs. But a prescription from a doctor is "Protected Health Information". So legally he does not have to disclose the medical condition or produce any paperwork and if a news source gets a copy and leaks it he will have grounds to sue unless he allowed the information to become public. But as long as his doctor will back him up, then legally the news sources cannot get any more information on it. Saying it is a prescription makes it PHI.

[Bronn Stone]

This story suggests that baseball might not be the performance Manny sought to enhance...

A source close to Manny Ramirez(notes) said Thursday that the illegal substance for which the Los Angeles Dodgers slugger tested positive was not “an agent customarily used for performance enhancing.â€

At least not on the baseball diamond. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the substance is supposed to boost sex drive. It is not Viagra, but a substance that treats the cause rather providing a temporary boost in sexual performance, the source said.

[Myshkin]

If he says it is from a medical condition or prescription then by HIPAA rules he legally does not need to share it. Now MLB could release that he tested positive for "X" since that is not covered by HIPAA. There are no HIPAA protections for OTC drugs. But a prescription from a doctor is "Protected Health Information". So legally he does not have to disclose the medical condition or produce any paperwork and if a news source gets a copy and leaks it he will have grounds to sue unless he allowed the information to become public. But as long as his doctor will back him up, then legally the news sources cannot get any more information on it. Saying it is a prescription makes it PHI.

I didn't mean that he had to legally produce these records, I meant that he would have to produce them if he wanted people to believe him. Anyway it looks like the point is now moot.

Just heard on ESPN that Manny didn't actually test positive for anything, but that they noticed an elevated level of testosterone in his system, and the ensuing investigation turned up paperwork suggestion he was on this fertility drug.

[Myshkin]

This story suggests that baseball might not be the performance Manny sought to enhance...

Maybe Manny has a medical condition that keeps his body from producing enough testosterone, but that's kinda hard to swallow. Steriods stunt the production of testosterone and so (from what I'm hearing on ESPN) many roiders use this fertility drug to boost their testosterone production when they're cycling off roids.

[Perin Stone]

If he says it is from a medical condition or prescription then by HIPAA rules he legally does not need to share it. Now MLB could release that he tested positive for "X" since that is not covered by HIPAA. There are no HIPAA protections for OTC drugs. But a prescription from a doctor is "Protected Health Information". So legally he does not have to disclose the medical condition or produce any paperwork and if a news source gets a copy and leaks it he will have grounds to sue unless he allowed the information to become public. But as long as his doctor will back him up, then legally the news sources cannot get any more information on it. Saying it is a prescription makes it PHI.

HIPAA does protect Manny's health information. But if he really did use a prescribed non-PED its in his interest to get that information out there. Otherwise everyone will assume he used a PED and is as "tainted" as everyone else.

[grozeng]

HIPAA does protect Manny's health information. But if he really did use a prescribed non-PED its in his interest to get that information out there. Otherwise everyone will assume he used a PED and is as "tainted" as everyone else.

Yeah, I was more responding to Myshkin saying he had to produce the prescription and disclose his problem. Which I think we all get that legally he does not have to do. And him saying it was a prescription from a doctor gives him some protection from disclosing what it is that he took and what his condition is. But from the other posts it looks like it is going to leak anyway.

Personally I hope he isn't on steroids, but no matter what he says now, no one is going to believe him. Which really is a shame because if this is true, he did it, he admitted to the screw up and he is serving his time. He stated it is a medical problem and with the macho culture of sports he doesn't want to admit to what it is

[Arakasi]

So the dumbass was using a women's fertility drug, which is used normally as a mask for steroid users.

[Tempra]

Has anyone else heard about the allegations that A-Rod tipped off pitches to opposing batters? Sounds like BS from the lady writing the A-Rod book trying to drum up more sales. Why in the world would he do that?

[Bronn Stone]

So the dumbass was using a women's fertility drug, which is used normally as a mask for steroid users.

Not so much a mask, but a recovery agent for the sexual side-effects of steroid use. Testosterone production is all screwed up by juicing.

At least that is what I am reading between the lines. And it sounds pretty conclusive.

[Myshkin]

Has anyone else heard about the allegations that A-Rod tipped off pitches to opposing batters? Sounds like BS from the lady writing the A-Rod book trying to drum up more sales. Why in the world would he do that?

It sounds like BS to me too.

Not so much a mask, but a recovery agent for the sexual side-effects of steroid use. Testosterone production is all screwed up by juicing.

At least that is what I am reading between the lines. And it sounds pretty conclusive.

I've also heard that it's used on its own for the performance enhancing effects of the testosterone boost. Either way, it's juicing.

[EHK for Darwin]

Something that wouldn't involve paperwork that could prove or disprove the story. If he wanted to lie about how the substance got into his system why would he say he had a medical reason and a prescription, rather than saying that it was in something he got over the counter at GNC? If he said it was something he got over the counter at GNC there would be no record to disprove him. As it is now he has to disclose whatever medical condition he has, produce a doctor and paperwork to prove he actually has said condition, and produce the prescription for the medicine.

The players are all well informed at this point NOT to take anything without running it by team doctors or league officials. They have a damned hotline they can call for that information if they're not sure. They know that even seemingly harmless drugs and supplements may contain banned substances and it is incumbent upon them to find out one way or another. That is one of their responsibilities as a player in the steroids era and I have no doubt that its been made abundantly clear to everyone.

Further, how is the doctor excuse to be disproven? You can't get another persons medical records without a court order. The doctor has confidentiality obligations. Its the ironclad, perfect excuse unless the doctor himself gets pissy and wants to protect his reputation. Further, doctors are bigger whores than lawyers half the time. It'd be easy as hell for a wealthy athlete to find doctor to prescribe what he needed.

If this was genuinely unintended (which further news stories seem to indicate otherwise), the responsibility was ENTIRELY on manner to find out one way or another.

[Myshkin]

The players are all well informed at this point NOT to take anything without running it by team doctors or league officials. They have a damned hotline they can call for that information if they're not sure. They know that even seemingly harmless drugs and supplements may contain banned substances and it is incumbent upon them to find out one way or another. That is one of their responsibilities as a player in the steroids era and I have no doubt that its been made abundantly clear to everyone.

Further, how is the doctor excuse to be disproven? You can't get another persons medical records without a court order. The doctor has confidentiality obligations. Its the ironclad, perfect excuse unless the doctor himself gets pissy and wants to protect his reputation. Further, doctors are bigger whores than lawyers half the time. It'd be easy as hell for a wealthy athlete to find doctor to prescribe what he needed.

If this was genuinely unintended (which further news stories seem to indicate otherwise), the responsibility was ENTIRELY on manner to find out one way or another.

As I said above, I was speaking about it from the standpoint of clearing his name with the fans.

[Lord O' Bones]

If this was genuinely unintended (which further news stories seem to indicate otherwise), the responsibility was ENTIRELY on manner to find out one way or another.

The statement he released agrees with you.