ASOIAF Biggest Scumbag

[Paladin of Ice]

Craster, Gregor, Ramsay, The Tickler, Qyburn, Euron, Cersei, Joff, the slavers of Astapor, Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions.

That's my top tier.

[Grimsqueaker]

Jeoff was an evil bastard but he did have cercei and jaime for parents afterall and was incredibly spoiled. The mountain is horrible but vaguely restrained by social taboos. Qyburn's just sociopathic. Ramsay and Biter are pure evil - biter may be mentally retarded in some way so perhaps out reward should go to Ramsay.

[Zilal]

As we've been discovering, there are many ways to be despicable, so I'll confine my choice to the parameters of scumbagness.

"Scumbag" connotes certain things. It doesn't necessarily mean evil, or monstrous, or macchiavellian. We have other words for those things. To me, a scumbag is someone (usually male) who's in charge of his actions and chooses to behave in a morally bankrupt fashion that lies somewhere south of obnoxious but north of stone-cold evil. And somebody you'd feel dirty just sitting next to, perhaps because of their personal hygiene but probably because of their questionable social skills. There is something crude about them and a certain spitefulness or immaturity in how they use people.

So characters like Littlefinger or Tywin or Roose Bolton don't really fit, because they're not scummy in that way. Neither do characters like Gregor Clegane or Biter... they're not petty, just bad. Walder Frey fits the definition of scumbag best for me. Craster takes second.

[Chairman Yang]

Biter isn't that bad. Well, he is, but there's a good reason for it (namely, his tragic background of being abandoned as a child then thrown into animal fighting pits by Rorge as a small child). Almost anyone would be twisted and evil by that.

[RWHamel]

Wasn't Strong Belwas tossed into the fighting pits too? Yet he doesn't seem nearly as bad as Biter.

thats one of those things that gets a free pass since we are relieved the stark boys are still alive.

So which is it you are trying to say? It's OK to murder children if they are minor characters, or it's OK to murder children if they are members of the common folk.

[BastardSword]

Enoch, I know what you're saying. I was once involved with someone who, after it was all over and my life pretty much in ruins, let me in on their definition of love: "You made me feel good at the time."

I don't think Littlefinger knows how to love. What he thought was love for Cat was youthful sexual attraction, and now he's an older guy trying to recapture his lost youth with Cat's daughter which is really squicky.

I've always liked the definition of love as putting someone's highest good above your own, and by that definition there are actually very few people in Westeros (or our world) who meet it. Most people are out for themselves first. A good person puts their loved ones at least equal to them. Many people don't factor their 'loved' ones in at all except insofar as they gratify some appetite of theirs--for sex, money, social acceptance.

And no, I'm not Dr. Phil either, but I'm from Kahleefohrnya where mostly everyone is either a therapist, in therapy, in training to be a therapist, or a therapist in therapy.

[The Black Mamba of Dorne]

Gregor - DOG!!!! and not in the good way

Craster - fucks his own kids

Daenerys - cos i just dont like her

Cersei - shes too thick to be a Lannister

Tyrion - cos everyone likes him... so i dont HAH

Amory Lorch - fucker

Any of you guys who don't like the Bloody Mummers - cos they're fucking harsh

[GSP]

I'll get behind the Gregor crew. Truly Vile. Absolutely irredeemable, with no saving graces whatsoever.

Saw one listed that really made me say what the hell?

"The crazy new high septon".

What the hell is he guilty of (besides being a true believer, somewhat unheard of in a High Septon it seems)?

[the_dragon_rider]

What's the thing with necromancy ? I mean, as long as you don't touch my spirit (THAT's evil), I really don't care about what happens to my body after I'm dead. Can someone explain it all to me ?

[The OTHER other]

Biter isn't that bad. Well, he is, but there's a good reason for it (namely, his tragic background of being abandoned as a child then thrown into animal fighting pits by Rorge as a small child). Almost anyone would be twisted and evil by that.

Where are you coming up with this tragic backstory? I don't recall this anywhere.

[The OTHER other]

Interesting the Greyjoys don't make the lists more often. They are pirates that kill and plunder, they sacrifice others to their sick god by drowning which is a pretty terrible way to die. They basically enslave their captives--sure, they are called "thralls" but it's basically slavery. IMO Robert and Stannis were far too good to them, should have knocked them out for good--they didn't, and now the snakes are back at it.

[Jon Targaryen]

Where are you coming up with this tragic backstory? I don't recall this anywhere.

SSM I believe.

[Jenna]

Qyburn is exactly a representation of Mengala. And don't tell me that Mengala's work was without scientific value. He took meticulous notes and there are still debates today about whether or not to use his "reaserch", since it was so increadably detailed and there is no way mankind will ever have anyway of repeating his exparaments, due to the inhuman work necessary to do so. Qyburn does the same thing, test all sorts of painful, and leathel scenarios on living people and see what happens. Don't tell me that Qyburn isn't as bad.

I thought exactly the same thing when I read AFFC. And yes, your coments about Mengala's experiments and notes is accurate. There is still ethical debates over the decision to use, or not use them.

[Daemrion]

Aerys Targaryen. The man was going to kill many many people just to spite someone else.

[Catfish]

I just wanted to throw Sansa Stark in here. If she hadn't betrayed Eddard, he would probably be king now, and the characters wouldn't have to deal with the likes of Cersei. After all she went through with Joffrey though, I can't help but forgive and pity Sansa.

There are so many despicable characters in the series, it could make for a very long list, but I can understand the motives of many of them. Be it greed, lust, revenge, or defense of their children, crimes commited with these motives are all very human and in my eyes understandable things.

However there are some characters whose evil goes above and beyond. Cold hearted killers. The worst characters would have to be:

Walder Frey - An eye for an eye would be an acceptable form of revenge. But for a broken marriage contract, he murders his sworn King, and his entire army while they were under his own guest protection. Remember that Robb had already made amends for the marriage contract by offering Edmure in his stead. What Walder did is just unfathomably despicable.

Rorge, Biter, the Bloody Mummers - What are their motives? They seem to just rape and kill for fun.

Cersei - Treacherous to the core, willing to kill anyone for the smallest slight. Even her own council hated her. Gaining loyalty through fear and death is no true loyalty.

and that guy who trained the Unsullied.

[Errant Bard]

I just wanted to throw Sansa Stark in here. If she hadn't betrayed Eddard, he would probably be king now, and the characters wouldn't have to deal with the likes of Cersei.

Ned had already told told Cersei himself. The only thing that changed is that Sansa and Arya got captured.

Also, if Ned had managed to overcome Cersei with Renly and Littlefinger against him, he would have declared for Stannis and would never ever have been king.

A teenage daughter rebelling against her father for "love" is worse scum than serial murderers, rapists and traitors? meh, May as well throw Lyanna in there, the scum betrayed her family on a grand scale with awful consequences.

[Too Good To Be True]

I don't back Walder Frey being the worst. OK, he helped arrange a massacre. Whilst this is, indeed, evil in itself, the side thing such as beheadings were probably the work of Lame Lothar or Black Walder. Walder Frey would see the killing of Robb as honourable, since Robb, in effect, broke an oath to Frey, and so was his enemy. The manner was treacherous, and may have been concocted, again, by Lame Lothar/Black Walder, or even Roose and Tywin.

Roose is not half as bad as the c**t that is Ramsay. Roose's most evil act is to betray and, OK, assassinate his King. However comapred to what Ramsay has done, Roose is practically whiter-than-white. I can't see Roose ever doing what Ramsay has done, and indeed, Roose condemns Ramsay's actions in one of his conversations (maybe to Cat, can't recall).

Tywin is evil in the sense that Edward Longshanks was evil. He will do what he thinks is necessary to get power, although not personally. The film 'Braveheart' is extremely lacking in many historical facts, but the character of Edward I as played by Patrick McGoohan is very much a more excitable Tywin in his actions. This in a way makes Tywin worse, since he would see women, children and old people dying as 'necessary' casualties, and he would dispatch his minions to do his bidding without a second thought; he wouldn't, however, do it himself. Tywin's redeeming features, if you can call them that, are that he was less cold when Joanna was alive; and he condemned Lorch's actions. However Tywin is still one cold fucker since his childhood, so he is pretty evil.

Mountain is very evil, one of the ultimate worst, since he comes across as being intelligent; certainly more so than people like Craster or even Amory Lorch. His actions are despicable, totally evil.

Thus Ramsay, Mountain, and Tywin are worst. Biter is an animal, Rorge is evil but we don't see him as much as some so we don't know his past actions.

[Mad Monkey]

What's the thing with necromancy ? I mean, as long as you don't touch my spirit (THAT's evil), I really don't care about what happens to my body after I'm dead. Can someone explain it all to me ?

The problem is twofold. One, there's a religious prohibition against messing with people's corpses/desecrating people's corpses. You can see it in Westeros by their elaborate burial stories and statements by characters such as Renly ordering his men not to mess around with Stannis's corpse if he dies in battle. Two, usually necromancers like the Others kill their victims so that they can reanimate them for their armies. No one really wants to get strangled to death, especially if they have to see their corpses being used to kill their friends and families.

[Mulliman]

Walder Frey - An eye for an eye would be an acceptable form of revenge. But for a broken marriage contract, he murders his sworn King, and his entire army while they were under his own guest protection. Remember that Robb had already made amends for the marriage contract by offering Edmure in his stead. What Walder did is just unfathomably despicable.

I second this. Backstabs are for losers.

But his house is probably going to go down the drain in the following books.

[The OTHER other]

I thought exactly the same thing when I read AFFC. And yes, your coments about Mengala's experiments and notes is accurate. There is still ethical debates over the decision to use, or not use them.

Okay, ENOUGH on Mengele. And it's MENGELE!