FMLA: Once again America is rather behind the times

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Could it be possible that the costs for armed forces also plays a role here? Being a superpower is expensive, a welfare state is also expensive. The European states have a rather weak military but a strong social safety net. The USA prefer to be a superpower. Can’t have both at the same time, I assume…

Having a military is one thing, waging a neverending war is another. We could save so much money by pulling out of Iraq.

Which reminds me of a joke: What do you call a man who uses the "pull out" method of birth control?

[denstorebog]

Could it be possible that the costs for armed forces also plays a role here? Being a superpower is expensive, a welfare state is also expensive. The European states have a rather weak military but a strong social safety net. The USA prefer to be a superpower. Can’t have both at the same time, I assume…

I think it's at least an interesting factor. Over here (Denmark), there are constantly suggestions on the table to diminish our already irrelevant military because there are basically no enemies to fight and probably won't be for a long time for most of the people in service.

[denstorebog]

Lets start with not providing two years of paid maternity leave.

Yeah, thanks, but that's an answer to a previous question. The question I was asking is, what should happen to the personally irresponsible people who had a child? What should happen to the child?

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

But the problem with that is that only people who are likely to use it, probably mostly people planning to have children, would ever buy such an 'insurance'. So either the premiums would be atrociously expensive, or you'd have to come up with a metric buttload of money from somewhere else.

hell, most people don't even pay the couple bucks a month for disability insurance!

But it could also be used for other medical reasons, therefore making it more likely that more would buy into it. A short term disability for everyone, not just those that company's offer it.

[Guest thebadlady]

and why should that be society as a whole's problem? why save people from this particular spectacularly stupid decision and not from any of the other spectacularly bad decisions they could possibly make? as i asked before, if i dont buy insurance because i want to have some extra cash, then my house burns down, do you believe that the government should cut me a check for a new one?

its just not reasonable to expect me to have been at all responsible with my life decisions.

That doesn't even remotely answer the question.

Do you have a link that indicates many companies are cutting back on maternity benefits in the united states?

I would love to hear someone quantify the benefits to society of extending paid maternity leave beyond 'studies show that the first few years of life are important developmentally'.

other people's spawnlings will become part of society if they aren't darwin'd out first. its in everyone's interest to make sure they are educated, etc AND good. poverty and lack of education go hand in hand (I'd really like to see a total overhaul of the public school funding system, but thats another thread) so its in our own interests to make sure that children aren't being raised to go to jail for life.

personal responsibility means not being a fucktard. don't have 16 children, don't do crack, don't spread diseases, etc. The safety net should be in place for EMERGENCIES not because Trisha Trailortrash got wasted on keystone light and got knocked up yet again by Tommy Trailortrash.

the european system is obviously better for children and families than the US system. But compare the numbers - we have sooo damn many people to support. and not just people - look at the election coverage stuff where it shows how few states subsidize the rest. New York can't support Alabama forever. (again, another reason to overhaul the education system.)

[Swordfish]

But it could also be used for other medical reasons, therefore making it more likely that more would buy into it. A short term disability for everyone, not just those that company's offer it.

No. it really couldn't.

As I said, very few people purchase optional disability insurance, even though it is quite cheap.

No one would buy this unless they were planning to use it, which, essentially, means potential parents.

And once you have a kid could you stop paying? How long would you need to have it? Would being pregnant be a disqualifying pre-existing condition?

it's just not even remotely as simple as you make it out to be.

Yeah, thanks, but that's an answer to a previous question. The question I was asking is, what should happen to the personally irresponsible people who had a child?

They should go back to work after their maternity leave ends.

What should happen to the child?

Your question is vague to the point of being completely meaningless.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

Ok. So what exactly will change when we start giving pregnant women more maternity leave? Please dont say nothing at all.

You implied that it works in Europe because of lower birthrate which I called bullshit, but anyway..

Most likely usage of temps goes up and their costs down. Temps costing 2-3 times as much as regulars is ridiculous.

and why should that be society as a whole's problem? why save people from this particular spectacularly stupid decision and not from any of the other spectacularly bad decisions they could possibly make? as i asked before, if i dont buy insurance because i want to have some extra cash, then my house burns down, do you believe that the government should cut me a check for a new one?

its just not reasonable to expect me to have been at all responsible with my life decisions.

I´d guess that you´d get a cheap rent apartment and maybe some financial help to buy essentials like clothes if needed. Depends how much money you own.

[Guest thebadlady]

the majority of homeless people are children. yes, i want those children to be warm, fed and housed but where does it stop? How many crackheads and octomommies do i have to support in addition to my own children? how many handouts are you willing to give before its simply enough and you say, no, I won't support your 12th child? Esp when the first 11 have been removed by social services?

is there no limit on european social services? could you have 22 children and still get paid? shit, who needs a babydaddy when there is THE STATE!

[Lord Mord]

Jaerv,

Could it be possible that the costs for armed forces also plays a role here? Being a superpower is expensive, a welfare state is also expensive. The European states have a rather weak military but a strong social safety net. The USA prefer to be a superpower. Can’t have both at the same time, I assume…

Sweet! If it's that simple, then where do I sign up to make the switch? :cheers:

[Guest thebadlady]

Jaerv,

Sweet! If it's that simple, then where do I sign up to make the switch? :cheers:

http://change.gov/

[denstorebog]

is there no limit on european social services? could you have 22 children and still get paid? shit, who needs a babydaddy when there is THE STATE!

Well, it doesn't end there, of course. Here you get support in the form of a quarterly check until the child ages 18 years. Dunno if there's an equivalent in the States.

[Guest thebadlady]

Well, it doesn't end there, of course. Here you get support in the form of a monthly check until the child ages 18 years. Dunno if there's an equivalent in the States.

you live on venus and we live on the moon. we get monthly checks (sometimes) only if we are single parents and get paid child support (sometimes) from the other parent. or if the kid is disabled and eligible for ssi, then you get a government check.

we aren't encouraged to have babies here because we really have enough. more than we can afford.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

is there no limit on european social services? could you have 22 children and still get paid? shit, who needs a babydaddy when there is THE STATE!

Yes and no. You can have 22 children if you want and get benefits for all of them. It would still be rather impossible financially.

[Guest thebadlady]

Yes and no. You can have 22 children if you want and get benefits for all of them. It would still be rather impossible financially.

not here! if you treat your vagina like a clown car you get your own reality tv series! and everyone donates and supports your litter of children!

[denstorebog]

not here! if you treat your vagina like a clown car you get your own reality tv series! and everyone donates and supports your litter of children!

Considering how rapidly Europe imports American reality TV, it might actually add up for the US in the end.

[Security Squish]

This is where the cultural thing might come into play. In the UK there are vast numbers of temporary teachers and even health care specialists who move from post to post as needed and as temporary absences come up (and they certainly do not cost 2-3 times the same as permanant staff). Effectively, support systems are in place to deal with all of the concerns you raise. From what you are saying, the same support structure presumably does not exist, at least on the same scale, in the USA, and changing things to introduce such a structure would be monstrously complex and expensive. I've seen the same argument against UHC and greener living: you could 'fix' the situation (if you think it's a problem in the first place) but it's incredibly hard to do so due to the sheer weight and inertia of the bureaucracy that is already in place.

I think you make a good point about the system in place in the US being problematic. One of our barriers probably is our healthcare system and it is something I badly want to see reformed. If we had a solid UHC system in place with plenty of staff to go around I would see this as a smaller deal. I guess from my perspective at the moment I think that cutting the staff levels in my ER by even a few percent due to incresaed leave would have a very detrimental effect on our patients. Our ERs our overburdened as it is. I know healthcare workers are only a small percentage of the work force that exteneded leave would effect but its the part I know and the part I think about.

[Security Squish]

You implied that it works in Europe because of lower birthrate which I called bullshit, but anyway..

Most likely usage of temps goes up and their costs down. Temps costing 2-3 times as much as regulars is ridiculous.

So you say. I say a travel RN in the US can easily pull in $150,000 in a year by working for only 10 months. That is 3 times more than newbies and 2 times more than vets. There are a lot of reasons for example; the desperation factor of an understaffed hospital, long training time for new staff, lack of qualified recruits, and the fact that hospitals can get their pants sued off if they don't have enough staff and a preventable tragedy occurs. There are many more reasons that you could easily find. My point is in no way ridiculous just because the cost of temps is ludicrous.

[Lord Mord]

thebadlady,

That's not fair to tease me. Come on, Obama is as beholden to the "America Must be the World's Greatest Superpower" trope as anyone. I'm talking about abdicating -- don't distract me, please.

[Guest thebadlady]

thebadlady,

That's not fair to tease me. Come on, Obama is as beholden to the "America Must be the World's Greatest Superpower" trope as anyone. I'm talking about abdicating -- don't distract me, please.

delish, i haven't been called a tease in years. i feel young now. :D

[Jaxom 1974]

not here! if you treat your vagina like a clown car you get your own reality tv series! and everyone donates and supports your litter of children!

See, now you're just coming down on my alternate plan in cae things go awry. I mean, why can't Mrs. Jax have a seixer in there? TLC here I come! Seriously, Jon and Kate have issues and I've got a personality all my own!

(This was a running joke we were having when we thought we'd be going through the fertility treatments. I even joked with the doctor when she asked about multiples. I got the impression she'd heard something similar before. :P )