FMLA: Once again America is rather behind the times

[The Iceman of the North]

Just curious, but what percentage of your income goes to the government in other countries? I was going to start another thread, but it kinda fits here. I guess I'm looking for a comparison as to what is paid out as to what you get out of it for the type of services being discussed here. Would taxes have to increase so dramatically to have better funding in certain areas?

Now, I'm talking about what you get deducted every pay cheque, not what income you are left with after tax season and can do the tax dance to get a bunch back. I'm not talking about all deductions like what you pay for private insurance or private pension plans, just what goes to the government. For example, every pay I have a bunch of deductions for Canada Pension, Employment Insurance, and Federal and Provincial taxes all of which goes into government coffers. Not to mention the sales tax on pretty much everything, but that's something else too.

So, what's it like elsewhere?

I gotta ask you why not? Surely how much you are left with at the end is what's important? Last year I paid 26% of my income in direct taxes and social security. In addition there's VAT, aviation taxes and such, but I couldn't tell how much this would be.

[Lyanna Stark]

Tyria,

The basic income tax in the UK is currrently:

Basic rate

Tax is payable at the basic rate of 20 per cent on taxable income up to £37,400.

Higher rate

If you have more than £37,400 of taxable income, you will have to pay a higher rate of tax on the amount above this level.

On top of this you pay National insurance as well, plus council tax, which is based on the tax band of the property you live in. National insurance isn't a great cost compared to income tax (which I think is fairly low) and council tax (which is fairly steep but also varies from council to council in a totally random fashion).

Income tax and National insurance are normally just deducted from your pay check automatically, but council tax you get billed for and have to pay separately (which is bizarre to me as a Swede, as all our taxes just automatically get deducted from our paycheck and our council tax is not based on property but on income and is deducted together with everything else).

You can also fall beneath the tax bands completely, but I believe that means you're not even working 50% and at a very low wage. I think my MiL works like this, but she is also a pensioner and has it as additional income to top up her pension. I think it's something like £15k a year or some such? Not 100% sure.

[Tyria]

I gotta ask you why not? Surely how much you are left with at the end is what's important? Last year I paid 26% of my income in direct taxes and social security. In addition there's VAT, aviation taxes and such, but I couldn't tell how much this would be.

Hmmm...good question. I guess it's because people (not just here, but IRL) seem to bitch more about how much they lose out every pay when taxes increase, probably because they actually see it on a regular basis. They're not necessarily looking at what they can get back through deductions and all that at tax time.

How much is left at the end is important, but I guess I was looking for how much is going in the coffers in the first place. Not sure if this is coming across how I want it too :unsure:

eta: thanks, Lyanna. We (Canada) have different percentages for different income levels too. I'm roughly in the middle level and pay out about 20% of my pay to taxes. We also have sales tax and property taxes and all that too, I was just curious about income.

[The Iceman of the North]

Hmmm...good question. I guess it's because people (not just here, but IRL) seem to bitch more about how much they lose out every pay when taxes increase, probably because they actually see it on a regular basis. They're not necessarily looking at what they can get back through deductions and all that at tax time.

How much is left at the end is important, but I guess I was looking for how much is going in the coffers in the first place. Not sure if this is coming across how I want it too :unsure:

eta: thanks, Lyanna. We (Canada) have different percentages for different income levels too. I'm roughly in the middle level and pay out about 20% of my pay to taxes. We also have sales tax and property taxes and all that too, I was just curious about income.

Then it's 31% for 10.5 out of 12 pay cheques (or an average of 27% for the entire year).

[litechick]

Except this is, of course, a happy middle class problem. And totally rubbish. A lot of people actually do not have any space in their budgets already.

I consider myself lower middle class or working class (depending on your definition) and it's mind boggling looking at the apalling perspectives here from people who have never spent a day in their life poor, or struggling for money. Congratulations to you. Not everyone is as fortunate.

I hope you're not talking to me.

When I'm in a tough spot, I like to think of pioneer times when a woman had to manage the kids, sew the clothes, wash the clothes without a machine, make the food, preserve the food to get through winter, etc. If she could do it, I can find a way to make my life work.

Pots, you've got entitlement backwards. Entitlement is when you think other people should solve your problems for you

[snake]

Okay, I looked at the OTHER article that was linked - not the research reviews done by people in NZ - and I have to say one thing. C-sections are on the rise here in the US. Women are getting C-sections for medically unnecessary reasons, or healthcare staff get impatient. So you'll have to take into account the number of women who have planned C-sections (whether for convenience or for a medical issue, such as diabetes) versus the number of women who end up having C-sections because vaginal birth is impossible (breach position, umbilical cord wrapped around baby's neck, etc.).

Taking leave before my due date was an option to me, but as I prefer having money as opposed to not, I didn't take that option.

I assume they took those reasons into account when they did this study.

I wonder what your take is on this quote by one of the researchers?

"In the public health field, we'd like to decrease the rate of C-sections (cesarean deliveries) and increase the rate of breastfeeding," said Guendelman. "C-sections are really a costly procedure, leading to extended hospital stays and increased risks of complications from surgery, as well as longer recovery times for the mother. For babies, it is known that breastfeeding protects them from infection and may decrease the risk of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome), allergies and obesity. What we're trying to say here is that taking maternity leave may make good health sense, as well as good economic sense."

[Filippa Eilhart]

When I'm in a tough spot, I like to think of pioneer times when a woman had to manage the kids, sew the clothes, wash the clothes without a machine, make the food, preserve the food to get through winter, etc. If she could do it, I can find a way to make my life work.

yes, but she could also find a spot of land that's not used, cut up some trees and build a house. For free. try doing that now.

[potsherds]

Pots, you've got entitlement backwards. Entitlement is when you think other people should solve your problems for you

Ah, you are correct. I shouldn't have used that word in my post. Instead, it should have gone something like "Quite a baffling sense of selfishness and lack of empathy for others". Thanks for the correction.

[Lord Mord]

litechick,

When I'm in a tough spot, I like to think of pioneer times when a woman had to manage the kids, sew the clothes, wash the clothes without a machine, make the food, preserve the food to get through winter, etc. If she could do it, I can find a way to make my life work.

If you had the option available not to, why would you choose that life? If you had the ability to aid someone else so they didn't have to live like that, why would you brush them off?

[Filippa Eilhart]

OT, I admit, but I was thinking about different attitdes - I promise this is not a bait question:

regarding the ideas of "solidarity" vs "I decide whom I help", does the American road code provide for an obligation of other drivers to help accident victims?

[Filippa Eilhart]

litechick,

If you had the option available not to, why would you choose that life? If you had the ability to aid someone else so they didn't have to live like that, why would you brush them off?

see, I don't think this is necessarily a bad life. Many people *would* choose it, given the option.

[Lord Mord]

Filippa Eilhart,

see, I don't think this is necessarily a bad life. Many people *would* choose it, given the option.

Do you suppose that in a welfare state that option is not still available to you? The only difference is that it's not the only option available.

[Filippa Eilhart]

eh, it doesn't really depend on whether it is a welfare state. But in order to go and live off the land, I need money to purchase that land.

[Deedles]

Wow, I really didn't think this thread would go this far! I can kinda see the points on both sides, but I have to say, I come down more in favour of the paid maternity / paternity leave. I actually like how it works in Ireland.

After you've worked, a MINIMUM of 13 of the previous 52 weeks, and I think, either 52 of the last 104 weeks or, 104 weeks in the past and 39 weeks in the last year, and made PRSI (Pay related social insurance) contributions, a female is entitled to 22 weeks of maternity benefit. It must start 2 weeks before the expected due date. The payment is a sliding scale from about 90 euro a week to a maximum of 204 euro a week depending on salary.

All women who give birth (or have a still birth) are entitled to this payment as long as the PRSI contributions have been made.

Most large companies will top up the State Maternity Benefit to either salary, or a percentage of same. My job would be 100% of salary. It's certainly a benefit I asked about when I joined.

Saying that, I think that a basic amount, and 204 euro a week max is not a huge amount, is a reasonable expectation from our society. If you don't work, you don't get the benefit. I'd personally like to see a portion of it being transferrable to the father, but I'll take what I can get.

PRSI is currently 4% of salary. After working for 10 years, I'm well onto having paid for imaginary kid one, and imaginary kid 2 is nearly there!

I think my May pay check had about 30% gone between Income tax and PRSI. I'm pretty happy paying that amount. I'd be ok if it went up again. Well, not happy but I'd pay it. I'm happy with the services I buy with my tax, I think they're cheap at the price.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

regarding the ideas of "solidarity" vs "I decide whom I help", does the American road code provide for an obligation of other drivers to help accident victims?

No it doesn't. Until recently it was even discouraged because if, while trying to help, you made things worse, they could sue you. We now have "good samaritan laws" in most states though.

[Shryke]

I hope you're not talking to me.

When I'm in a tough spot, I like to think of pioneer times when a woman had to manage the kids, sew the clothes, wash the clothes without a machine, make the food, preserve the food to get through winter, etc. If she could do it, I can find a way to make my life work.

She also died young and spent her life pregnant, uneducated and oppressed. Hell of a dream right there.

[Lord Mord]

Filippa Eilhart,

eh, it doesn't really depend on whether it is a welfare state. But in order to go and live off the land, I need money to purchase that land.

Ha! Do you think those hardy women from olden times would have let a thing like that stand in their way? Surely they'd have just homesteaded whereso they chose, or, if they bought the land, surely they'd have just sucked it up, tightened their belts and said, "How do I earn me that darn money to buy the land?"

So ... why don't you just do that? It may be harder, but it can still be done.

[Filippa Eilhart]

I prefer to live my life in comfort of a cushy government job in Europe's Richest Country :)

[Lord Mord]

Filippa Eilhart,

I prefer to live my life in comfort of a cushy government job in Europe's Richest Country :)

Okay. So, then, I fail to see the problem. You are still able to live backwoods if you wanted to; you choose not to. Either your point was a distraction, then, or else I misunderstood it.

[Filippa Eilhart]

my point was that those women didn't really have it that hard; that in fact there are a lot of people who would choose a life of living off the land, washing without a washing machine, raising chicks and kids and preserving food for winter, but they cannot afford to.