Lord Mord Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Filippa Eilhart,my point was that those women didn't really have it that hard; that in fact there are a lot of people who would choose a life of living off the land, washing without a washing machine, raising chicks and kids and preserving food for winter, but they cannot afford to.So, other people should be forced into the position of choosing reproduction or career, just so that some other people can choose to live rustic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filippa Eilhart Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I assume they took those reasons into account when they did this study.I wonder what your take is on this quote by one of the researchers?Well, whether or not you have maternity leave may not influence what you choose to do for birth. Some women have their hands forced - their babies are in breech or the umbilical cord is wrapped around the neck, so a C-section is necessary. Some women have multiples, and a C-section is necessary. To be honest this is a question best answered by one in the birthing field, such as a doula or a midwife. Natural childbirth followed by exclusive breastfeeding is the healthiest, and breastfeeding actually helps a woman recover from childbirth faster, as well as drop the pregnancy weight. I certainly hope that a lot of women will approach the childbirth process from a natural point of view, as in nature will do what nature does, but a lot of women nowadays seem to be afraid of the process. So many women have asked if I'm going to have a planned C-section (thanks but no thanks, my baby is not on a schedule) or an epidural, claiming that I'm going to need it for the pain. I'll let my body figure that one out on its own.Again, whether or not you have maternity leave does not preclude you from breastfeeding. Women breastfeed their children exclusively and can still work thanks to breast pumps. Then babies get the health benefits from breastmilk even when mom isn't there, though preferably mom will be there. As for C-sections, every time I say I want a natural birth with no drugs to a woman, she gasps in horror. I don't know why there is such a culture of fear around giving birth. Yes, it hurts. No, it's not scary. No, maternity leave is not going to impact my birth plan.Ah, you are correct. I shouldn't have used that word in my post. Instead, it should have gone something like "Quite a baffling sense of selfishness and lack of empathy for others". Thanks for the correction.I'm so selfish that in the past year despite not having a whole lot of money I've given hours of what amounts to free lessons to my students, sacrificed more hours of my time on a side project for them, given money to an ailing business, and acted essentially as a gopher for my dying neighbor in my spare time. I lack so much empathy that on the weekends between my job, school, and eating/sleeping I club seals and sneer at homeless people for being so stupid and lazy as to not be able to get a job. I love that part, heckling homeless people. It's great fun, you should try it some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I'm so selfish that in the past year despite not having a whole lot of money I've given hours of what amounts to free lessons to my students, sacrificed more hours of my time on a side project for them, given money to an ailing business, and acted essentially as a gopher for my dying neighbor in my spare time. I lack so much empathy that on the weekends between my job, school, and eating/sleeping I club seals and sneer at homeless people for being so stupid and lazy as to not be able to get a job. I love that part, heckling homeless people. It's great fun, you should try it some time.Wow. Well it's an honour to know someone who gives so freely of her time and money to a small number of people, and reaps no rewards beyond the satisfaction of being a good person. :) That said, I'd rather give up a larger percentage of my money in taxes to go towards social programs that benefit everyone, and assist those when they need it, like you during your pregnancy. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I love that part, heckling homeless people. It's great fun, you should try it some time.True story, my mom once threw a granola bar at a homeless guy. We were driving past a guy with a sign on the side of the road, and my sister said "We should give him some money or food or something." My mom immediately grabbed a granola bar off the seat next to her, and whipped it out the window of the moving car at the guy. I almost died laughing.Later, I went back there and stole the granola bar, as obviously he had done no work to earn it. I also kicked him in the shins to show what a good libertarian thinks of the shiftless and lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Except this is, of course, a happy middle class problem. And totally rubbish. A lot of people actually do not have any space in their budgets already.In which case, they should not be having children, because perhaps you are not aware of this, but children cost money to raise.I consider myself lower middle class or working class (depending on your definition) and it's mind boggling looking at the apalling perspectives here from people who have never spent a day in their life poor, or struggling for money. Congratulations to you. Not everyone is as fortunate.Random, baseless ad hominem generalization FTW!All the "EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE 8 MONTHS SAVINGS" is also totally mindboggling. Again, middle class fucking problems. I am utterly and completely appalled.Duly noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 My parents paid for tuition 100%*groans*Damnit Chat, you're coming off like more and more of a parody for every one of these threads we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Wow. Well it's an honour to know someone who gives so freely of her time and money to a small number of people, and reaps no rewards beyond the satisfaction of being a good person. :) That said, I'd rather give up a larger percentage of my money in taxes to go towards social programs that benefit everyone, and assist those when they need it, like you during your pregnancy. :)Why not donate money to your local Planned Parenthood, or volunteer in a hospital in the labor and delivery ward, or do something that would be similar? I'm not seeing the difference, aside from the fact that the US government is notoriously inefficient when it comes to spending the money it gets in taxes. Your money and time could be put to better use.When we as people can get more transparency in government; when we the people can hold politicians accountable for pork and overspending; when we can cut the useless bits of bureaucracy away and re-purpose that money, I will be more confident in giving the government my money even if freeloaders are going to take advantage of it. The US generates a ton of money from tax revenue and then spends it on stupid shit like the Alaskan bridge to nowhere. Not to mention once you become a government worker you are so set for life and you don't even have to be good at your job.Edit: Galactus, if it makes you feel any better, I've paid for my graduate school 100% so far, and my undergraduate school was paid for by my mother and myself, with assistance from the school (but not a government loan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I will happily trade you all UHC and and 9 months of paid maternity leave for an ironclad non-interventionist foreign policy (with the requisite abandonment of those overseas bases not postioned on US territory) and the elimination of legal tender laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Agreed. If something can't be done 100% absolutely perfect, we shouldn't even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Agreed. If something can't be done 100% absolutely perfect, we shouldn't even try.Nothing is ever perfect, but the people running the country should be held accountable for their actions. Since they can't be trusted with my money, I'll do what I think is best with it myself. But apparently it is wrong to think that I could do any better than the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Nothing is ever perfect, but the people running the country should be held accountable for their actions. Since they can't be trusted with my money, I'll do what I think is best with it myself. But apparently it is wrong to think that I could do any better than the government.They are already trusted with quite a bit of your money.And yes, they also do many things better then you ever could on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 They are already trusted with quite a bit of your money.And yes, they also do many things better then you ever could on your own.Sadly yes, they are, and I'd prefer that they don't get even more of my money, or else it would make me much less likely to do things such as help others out in their times of need.The government does a few things much better than I ever could. And I can do many things better than the government can. It's the mix of of the public and private sectors that make this country run, though more and more things are going public. Nationalization of everything is not the key to a better society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mord Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Filippa,what?I don't really know. Are you arguing against paid maternity leave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 They are already trusted with quite a bit of your money.No they aren't. They take it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filippa Eilhart Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I don't really know. Are you arguing against paid maternity leave? not at all. all I did was react to a statement which I didn't think was accurate :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouse Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Again, whether or not you have maternity leave does not preclude you from breastfeeding. Women breastfeed their children exclusively and can still work thanks to breast pumps.Um, except for workplaces that do not provide spaces for the women to pump.... see the "Breastfeeding at Work" thread that prompted this thread. The availability of maternity leave (and feasibility of taking such leave) DOES impact women's choice, and sometimes ability, to continue breastfeeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Well, whether or not you have maternity leave may not influence what you choose to do for birth. Some women have their hands forced - their babies are in breech or the umbilical cord is wrapped around the neck, so a C-section is necessary. Some women have multiples, and a C-section is necessary. To be honest this is a question best answered by one in the birthing field, such as a doula or a midwife. Natural childbirth followed by exclusive breastfeeding is the healthiest, and breastfeeding actually helps a woman recover from childbirth faster, as well as drop the pregnancy weight. I certainly hope that a lot of women will approach the childbirth process from a natural point of view, as in nature will do what nature does, but a lot of women nowadays seem to be afraid of the process. So many women have asked if I'm going to have a planned C-section (thanks but no thanks, my baby is not on a schedule) or an epidural, claiming that I'm going to need it for the pain. I'll let my body figure that one out on its own.Again, whether or not you have maternity leave does not preclude you from breastfeeding. Women breastfeed their children exclusively and can still work thanks to breast pumps. Then babies get the health benefits from breastmilk even when mom isn't there, though preferably mom will be there. As for C-sections, every time I say I want a natural birth with no drugs to a woman, she gasps in horror. I don't know why there is such a culture of fear around giving birth. Yes, it hurts. No, it's not scary. No, maternity leave is not going to impact my birth plan.So you think the study was wrong somehow? Not looking for an arguement here just some clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andriy Czarchenko Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Back to the issue. My sister is pregnant and currently on her yearly vacation(5 weeks) after which she stays home on maternity leave. In total she´ll be away from work over 2 months before due date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minaku Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Um, except for workplaces that do not provide spaces for the women to pump.... see the "Breastfeeding at Work" thread that prompted this thread. The availability of maternity leave (and feasibility of taking such leave) DOES impact women's choice, and sometimes ability, to continue breastfeeding.I don't have a place to pump, but I will find one for myself. But you're right, I wasn't thinking about availability of pumping spaces.snake, I'm not saying anything about whether or not the report is wrong. It's not something you can assign a value to, like wrong or right. What I am saying is that maternity leave is not the only factor in making the decision to breastfeed or have a c-section, and I feel like the report was trying to say that it was.Czar: And...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.022a4ba4f4aa53526e0290eedde6f808.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.