Harvard professor arrested

[TerraPrime]

What useful purpose does it serve to assume someone is a racist just because they are a police officer? If there is evidence that the police acted in the manner they did because they are racists then the appropriate action should be taken but jumping to the conclusion that if someone is a police officer they must be a racist doesn't seem like a reasonable response to me.

Exactly. The operative word being "to me", meaning, to you.

I think some people's accumulated life experience with regards to police and black Americans makes it a more than reasonable assumption. Police prejudice against black Americans is well documented. It is on-going, and it is not isolated.

[ljkeane]

Exactly. The operative word being "to me", meaning, to you.

I think some people's accumulated life experience with regards to police and black Americans makes it a more than reasonable assumption. Police prejudice against black Americans is well documented. It is on-going, and it is not isolated.

If your default assumption is going to be that police officers are racists that's up to you, I think that's unreasonable and counterproductive.

[TrackerNeil]

Of course it's possible that the police officers involved are racists but I don't see any evidence that they are and I'm perfectly comfortable assuming they aren't racists until I do. I don't think that waiting until there is some evidence to back it up before condemning someone as a racist or anything else is an unreasonable position.

What evidence would convince you?

[Shryke]

What evidence would convince you?

Any?

I mean, at this point, the only "evidence" is:

1) The professor's personal feelings, for which he is justifiably predisposed towards considering both personal history and just .. history in general (this does not, however, make them facts in any way)

2) the generalization that cops are racists (which is just bullshit generalization)

Neither of which are compelling in the slightest.

[ljkeane]

What evidence would convince you?

I don't know, perhaps a witness coming forward to show they said or did something that would show they arrested the professor because he was black not because they were overreacting to the professor being a dick (which I don't think even the professor's account of the events does).

Alternatively some evidence that they have acted in an unreasonable manner against black people consistently in the past or some evidence they have expressed a racist outlook in the past.

[TheKassi]

Exactly. The operative word being "to me", meaning, to you.

I think some people's accumulated life experience with regards to police and black Americans makes it a more than reasonable assumption. Police prejudice against black Americans is well documented. It is on-going, and it is not isolated.

The comical thing is that this is an example of racial profiling. There are many documented cases of white racist cops, thus we should presume that all white police officers are tainted by racism.

It is an example of prejudice. Of negative stereotyping rationalized by taking a tendencyof the minority and applying it to the whole. This is the same BS logic racists have always used to disparage the African American culture and people.

Statistics say whatever you want them to say. It all depends on how you present them. As example, a racist might try to use the fact that African American's kill at five times the rate of all other races combined to talk some form of trash about African Americans.

But a logical human being will scoff and point out that out of one hundred thousand African Americans, 999,975 never hurt anyone.

Anyone who assumes police officers are racist is a hypocrite, because they themselves are prejudging an individual and applying a negative stereotype based on the behavior of a minority.

[turinturambar]

Exactly. The operative word being "to me", meaning, to you.

I think some people's accumulated life experience with regards to police and black Americans makes it a more than reasonable assumption. Police prejudice against black Americans is well documented. It is on-going, and it is not isolated.

If it were ok for people to make stereotypes and assumptions based upon anecdotal evidence, then I guess everybody has the right to be a sexist, racist, homophobic/heterophobic bigot.

So, I guess since some cops arrest black people or profile black people for no reason, then every black person who's ever been arrested for a petty(or perceived) crime must be a victim of racial profiling......

[TrueMetis]

I don't get the what the big deal is the only reason this matters is because he's black and a professor, but mostly because he's black. People get arrested every day for stupid shit in some cases a lot more stupid than yelling.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Cops continue their winning streak:

McDonald's employee arrested for serving over-salted burger to police officer.

[TrueMetis]

Cops continue their winning streak:

McDonald's employee arrested for serving over-salted burger to police officer.

...wtf...

[BloodRider]

Cops continue their winning streak:

McDonald's employee arrested for serving over-salted burger to police officer.

Interesting. The cop asks her to step outside where she is arrested. Sounds familiar.

[Black Dow]

Cops continue their winning streak:

McDonald's employee arrested for serving over-salted burger to police officer.

Sounds to me like a typical case of a fast food worker fucking with someone's food. Since it was salt instead of the usual spit or boogers, I would agree that the arrest was ridiculous under the circumstances. However, this case has nothing to do with any winning streak, since it is almost a two year old case.

[mouse]

If anyone wants to read other anecdotes of cops abusing their authority and acting racist (to put it mildly), I give you this link, which is truly, truly horrifying: http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/tmp/PE1ASL7R.pdf

[TerraPrime]

Re: TheKassi

The comical thing is that this is an example of racial profiling.

Comical, if you like Larry the Cable Guy.

There are many documented cases of white racist cops, thus we should presume that all white police officers are tainted by racism.

It is as much an assumption to say that despite the checkered and documented history of racism against black people demonstrated by police forces in the U.S. that the individual police officer who appeared to have made an unreasonable arrest does not have any racial motivation in carrying out the arrest. We should give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to racism to people, but some people, in some context, are more deserving of the benefit than others.

Anyone who assumes police officers are racist is a hypocrite, because they themselves are prejudging an individual and applying a negative stereotype based on the behavior of a minority.

A noble indignation, for sure, but it's rather vacuous because nobody is saying that white police officers are racists. The event is such that a white police officer who exhibited practices that have long been associated with anti-black racism was questioned by some people as to whether his actions was motivated by racial prejudice. It's not that he was assumed to be racist by the simple fact of him being a white police officer. It's no different than casting doubt about someone's intention when they appear to be casing a convenience store, even if s/he happens to be black, nor is it different from paying attention to someone who espouses militant anti-U.S. propaganda boarding a plane, even if s/he happens to be a Muslim. Your complaint would have merit if the thesis being proposed was one that states simply that all white cops are racist, but alas, it is not the issue.

Re: turinturambar

If it were ok for people to make stereotypes and assumptions based upon anecdotal evidence, then I guess everybody has the right to be a sexist, racist, homophobic/heterophobic bigot.

So, I guess since some cops arrest black people or profile black people for no reason, then every black person who's ever been arrested for a petty(or perceived) crime must be a victim of racial profiling......

The quality of your argument is imbued with such consistency that I have failed, despite my most valiant and sincere effort, to register a small amount of surprise.

*applauds*

[TheKassi]

It is as much an assumption to say that despite the checkered and documented history of racism against black people demonstrated by police forces in the U.S. that the individual police officer who appeared to have made an unreasonable arrest does not have any racial motivation in carrying out the arrest. We should give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to racism to people, but some people, in some context, are more deserving of the benefit than others.

Yes. Failing to prejudge an individual because of the sins of a minority is an assumption. It is the assumption that people do not automatically fit into the nice and neat little stereotypes bigots like to place them in because it is easier to level accusations against a group then it is to level them against the individual.

It is the assumption that you must judge an individual on their actions alone. It is the assumption that other people's actions are not evidence of an individual's crime simply because you can link them.

A noble indignation, for sure, but it's rather vacuous because nobody is saying that white police officers are racists. The event is such that a white police officer who exhibited practices that have long been associated with anti-black racism was questioned by some people as to whether his actions was motivated by racial prejudice. It's not that he was assumed to be racist by the simple fact of him being a white police officer. It's no different than casting doubt about someone's intention when they appear to be casing a convenience store, even if s/he happens to be black, nor is it different from paying attention to someone who espouses militant anti-U.S. propaganda boarding a plane, even if s/he happens to be a Muslim. Your complaint would have merit if the thesis being proposed was one that states simply that all white cops are racist, but alas, it is not the issue.

Untrue. The Officer's race and the race of Gates is the only evidence of Racism. White Cops were arresting white people for similar outbursts all across the nation for decades before this case, so arresting people disturbing the peace and being verbally abusive is not always motivated by race. Haven't even seen anyone illustrate that it is usually motivated by race.

In fact, to argue racism in this case one must over look the more obvious conclusion. Perhaps people do not like to be screamed at, insulted, and threatened by individuals who think they have power over them, regardless of the color of their skin?

So yeah, 'The cop is white, and white cops have a documented history of racism' is the sum of your evidence.

[alguien]

Untrue. The Officer's race and the race of Gates is the only evidence of Racism. White Cops were arresting white people for similar outbursts all across the nation for decades before this case, so arresting people disturbing the peace and being verbally abusive is not always motivated by race. Haven't even seen anyone illustrate that it is usually motivated by race.

Yes, because white tenured Harvard profs have had to deal with this all the time. :rolleyes:

So yeah, 'The cop is white, and white cops have a documented history of racism' is the sum of your evidence.

Also the supposed "perpetrator" was black. And a Harvard scholar. In his own home. After which, charges were dropped. And the mayor of the city apologized. Since Gates did nothing to get arrested.

C'mon folks. Yeah, until more facts come out, its hard to say for sure, but lets not be Pat Buchanan and become champions fighting against "reverse-racism". Barring more eye witness accounts, its extremely easy to see that the arrest could have been, in part, racially motivated. To not acknowledge that is disingenous, obtuse, or ignorant.

[Elrostar]

This all reminds me. Whatever happened in the BART case on New Year's Eve?

[Tempra]

Yes, because white tenured Harvard profs have had to deal with this all the time. :rolleyes:

Also the supposed "perpetrator" was black. And a Harvard scholar. In his own home. After which, charges were dropped. And the mayor of the city apologized. Since Gates did nothing to get arrested.

C'mon folks. Yeah, until more facts come out, its hard to say for sure, but lets not be Pat Buchanan and become champions fighting against "reverse-racism". Barring more eye witness accounts, its extremely easy to see that the arrest could have been, in part, racially motivated. To not acknowledge that is disingenous, obtuse, or ignorant.

and let's not be Al Sharpton and pull another Tawana Brawley.

[Annelise]

In fact, to argue racism in this case one must over look the more obvious conclusion. Perhaps people do not like to be screamed at, insulted, and threatened by individuals who think they have power over them, regardless of the color of their skin?

You know that is a contested point between the officer and Gates, though? The screaming and threats.

From Gates' statement:

The police report says I was engaged in loud and tumultuous behavior. That’s a joke. Because I have a severe bronchial infection which I contracted in China and for which I was treated and have a doctor’s report from the Peninsula hotel in Beijing. So I couldn’t have yelled. I can’t yell even today, I’m not fully cured.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,1

He says he was asked to step outside immediately instead of being told what the officer was there for or being asked for ID. He refused, so then officer said he was there investigating a B&E, did Gates have ID. Gates produces this, but he's upset over the way officer initially confronted him, which evidently fits the SOP re: police mistreatment/abuse of black men. (This is not to say all police mistreat black men or that all police are racist. This is to say that, apparently, that is how it's done when they do.) So Gates repeatedly asks the officer's name or badge number and when refused (according to him) that's when he said that treatment was due to him being a black man and the officer being white. I don't know how that qualifies as disturbing the peace though, so IMO you have to believe the officer's report about screams and threats to make a case for the arrest being just. Which perhaps you do and if so, I'm curious what drew you to conclude that it's Gates who is lying.

[Tempra]

Exactly. The operative word being "to me", meaning, to you.

I think some people's accumulated life experience with regards to police and black Americans makes it a more than reasonable assumption. Police prejudice against black Americans is well documented. It is on-going, and it is not isolated.

And yet I don't think you would find it acceptable for people to assume a criminal is black based on "accumulated life experience." The prevalence of crimes committed by blacks is well documented. It is on-going, and it is not isolated.