Harvard professor arrested

[Tempra]

Your comparison sucked because of the occupational difference between "black person" and "white cop". I am agnostic on the charge of the cop's racism, but I had to point out the shittiness of yet another one of your flawed power-excusing comparisons.

And what is the proof that your distinction has merit? It sure isn't self-evident.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Wrong, the "evidence" is the "testimony" for lack of a better word of the professor that was victimized, arrested falsely and has now been vindicated by having the charges dropped. You just choose to ignore all that.

Scot. I agree that the cop clearly abused his authority, as was in my particular case, regardless of his motivations. And the fact is, this does happen all the time and they generally get away with it. Why race matters is that cops know they are most likely to get away with an abuse of power when the victim is a Black male. That is well documented, I'm sure you'll agree. Hopefully, as Prof. Gates is now stating, the only good thing that can come out of this incident is a growing awareness by police nationwide that the old rules are done and you DON'T get a free pass to abuse or brutalize someone because his is Black and most likely won't be believed.

I don't know, I had the exact same thing happen to me in a public place and the cop made shit up and I'm a white guy and he got away with it. I was a designated driver walking with my drunk friends through a busy part of town full of bars and college kids, one of my friends took off and tried to jump a fence into a place and I yelled at it to get his ass back over here because I saw the cops. They heard me and assumed I was drunk. I reacted in a similar way as the professor--pissed off they were harassing me, and I walked away with a disorderly conduct ticket. I was also given the threat if I said one more word then I would be arrested. I quit talking. The cop put a bunch of things on that ticket that never happened.

Not much I can do about it.

What I do like about this case is that now the Obama has weighed in and said the cop acted "stupidly". I get the sense he is on our side, finally a guy in a high place on the side of someone other than our "honorable heroic police force".

[turinturambar]

I fail to see how a man who was arrested in his home after showing the officer his ID "got a break."

Nobody in this thread "saw" anything, so none of us know if anybody got a break. Personally I think the arrest was uncalled for. But this happens all the time to people of many races. There is no proof of any assumptions about the cop's motivation.

TerraPrime,

TP is "assuming" the cop had racist motivations because of historical evidence of racist cops in the past(none of whom were this cop) and based upon Gate's past racial experiences. This to me is no different than a rape victim thinking somebody wants to rape her because he gave her a weird look or a creepy vibe. After all, creepy guys have raped women in the past, and she has experienced it in the past so she "knows" what a rapist may look like act like. Perhaps the guy was just looking at her because she had food in her teeth, or he was staring off into space and she was in the pathway, or perhaps he's just an asshole. Either way, an assumption of somebody's motivation for an action, is not always clear. The COP in this situation shouldn't have arrested Gates, but none of us know his motives. Likely he's was just a power-hungry cop subjecting his "authority". Or simply pissed off that somebody questioned his authority. To assume he's a racist is both premature and very irresponsible. Assuming he is racist because of past actions of DIFFERENT individuals is hypocritical in a very ironic way.

At least I can admit I don't know his motivations. He may have been racially motivated, though if he was it was likely subconsciously as his fellow officer was black.

I myself was arrested once when a person ran into the street and stopped in front of my car. I stopped, honked my horn, and drove past when the guy finished running across the street. There was a cop behind me asked for identification. I asked him why, as I didn't do anything wrong. He told me I was impeding traffic, I told him I was not(and I admit my voice was raised), that a person ran in front of my car. He then cuffed me, and was going to bring me in until another officer pulled up and then let me go. The charges were later dropped. I am white...or 7/8 white anyways. Nobody can see the 1/8 Black Foot. Should I be claiming racism? Or was the cop just a stupid asshole?

[Tempra]

Tempra,

I stand by my characterization.

The officer didn't arrest Prof. Gates for refusing to show ID. In fact per the officer's own report he arrested Gates for disorderly conduct after Gates provided ID showing he had every right to be in the house.

Once the Officer was aware Gates was the homeowner he had no reason to be at the house. The Officer should have excused himself and apologized for the inconvienence, then left. Instead he stayed to argue with Prof. Gates who was justifiably irritated by the officer demanding he prove he had every right to be in his own home. The officer arrested Prof. Gates because Prof. Gates pissed him off.

That's a classic abuse of authority.

You are again believing only Gates's interpretation of what transpiered. From the police report "I told Gates that I was leaving his residence and that if he had any other questions regarding the matter, I would speak with him outside of the residence....

As I began walking through the foyer toward the front door, i could hear Gates again demanding my name. I again told Gates that I would speak with him outside...

As I descended the stairs to the sidewalk, Gates continued to yell at me, accusing me of racial bias and continued to tell me that I had no heard the last of him.... I warned Gates that he was becoming disorderly. Gates ignored my warning and continued to yell.... For a second time, I warned Gates to calm down while I withdrew my department issued handcuffs from their carrying case. Gates again ignored my warning and contineud to yell at me. It was at this time that I informed Gates that he was under arrest."

The officer did not stay to argue. He attempted to leave, but was followed by Gates. He warned Gates and Gates did not heed the police officer's warnings.

Abuse of authority? Hardly.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years...3092gates3.html

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tempra,

He raised his voice that qualifies a "disorderly conduct"? He demanded the Officer's name and badge number that qualifies as "disorderly conduct"? I repeat, Prof. Gates was arrested for being, at worst, rude.

[SwordoftheMorning]

sigh .... as stated WAY back in this thread, Police Reports are the report written by the officer involved. If Gates is a "lying bastard", then the cop has to be one too, in the name of fairness correct ? lol

anyway.

Here it is, in his own words....

Crowley also said he was exercising caution and is clearly not a racist based on his previous actions.

Those actions, Crowley told the Boston Herald, include giving mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to former Boston Celtics star Reggie Lewis, who suffered a fatal heart attack in 1993 at Brandeis University when Crowley was a campus cop.

"I wasn't working on Reggie Lewis the basketball star. I wasn't working on a black man," Crowley told the Boston Herald. "I was working on another human being."

OMG ..... he gave mouth to mouth to a BLACK MAN!!!! Well I'll be damned. There goes my theory and opinions. He is clearly destined to be president of the NAACP one day...... NOT!

I've said it before and will stand by it to the end. When someone says, "I'm not a racist because ....." They sure the fuck are.

[CloudFlare]

I've said it before and will stand by it to the end. When someone says, "I'm not a racist because ....." They sure the fuck are.

So if someone is accused of racism, what can they do to refute the allegation?

Or have we sunk to the level of: If you're innocent, you wouldn't have been accused.

Given the posts in this thread, I think we have.

[Tempra]

Tempra,

He raised his voice that qualifies a "disorderly conduct"? He demanded the Officer's name and badge number that qualifies as "disorderly conduct"? I repeat, Prof. Gates was arrested for being, at worst, rude.

Gates yelled ("raised his voice") at the officer and demanded his name and badge number. The officer gave his name. Gates against yelled at the officer. The officer again gave his name. The officer left the house. Gates followed the officer and repeatedly yelled at the officer. The officer warned Gates. Gates did not stop. The officer warned Gates again and Gates once again did not stop. Gates was then arrested.

Assuming the officer's account is accurate (which is in dispute), it does not appear to be an abuse of authority. Your characterization is unabashedly biased towards Gates. What leads you to be so biased towards Gates? Why do you outright dismiss the the police officer's characterization of the events? This is why we have juries. This officer's reputation is forever ruined. But hey, he was a white cop. Chances are he was racist.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tempra,

Gates yelled ("raised his voice") at the officer and demanded his name and badge number. The officer gave his name. Gates against yelled at the officer. The officer again gave his name. The officer left the house. Gates followed the officer and repeatedly yelled at the officer. The officer warned Gates. Gates did not stop. The officer warned Gates again and Gates once again did not stop. Gates was then arrested.

Assuming the officer's account is accurate (which is in dispute), it does not appear to be an abuse of authority. Your characterization is unabashedly biased towards Gates. What leads you to be so biased towards Gates? Why do you outright dismiss the the police officer's characterization of the events? This is why we have juries. This officer's reputation is forever ruined. But hey, he was a white cop. Chances are he was racist.

Because the police work for you and me. Yelling (being rude) at an officer who is on your property without cause shouldn't be a criminal act. Saying "stop or I'll arrest you" doesn't mean the subsequent arrest was proper.

[turinturambar]

I've said it before and will stand by it to the end. When someone says, "I'm not a racist because ....." They sure the fuck are.

Wow......just wow. I guess in the future when people are wrongly accused of things, or feel they're wrongly accused of things, they shouldn't defend themselves.

By this same logic, when the officer claimed Gates was belligerent or uncooperative, Gates shouldn't have claimed the opposite. He should have simply let the cop's story stay as the true story.

And in the original confrontation he shouldn't have claimed he lived in the home. After all, if he's claiming he wasn't breaking and entering.....that means he really WAS breaking and entering.

[DanteGabriel]

What leads you to be so biased towards Gates? Why do you outright dismiss the the police officer's characterization of the events?

Probably because one party in this imbroglio is an innocent man who was arrested in his own home after providing ID, and the other party is the jackass who arrested him.

[turinturambar]

Tempra,

Because the police work for you and me. Yelling (being rude) at an officer who is on your property without cause shouldn't be a criminal act. Saying "stop or I'll arrest you" doesn't mean the subsequent arrest was proper.

Being on the property "without cause" is dependent on the point of view. To gates it would be "without cause" because it was his damn home. Of course he should be pissed. In the cop's point of view, he was responding to a B and E and thus was on the property with cause investigating a call. In other words doing his job.

After that though, he should have just left rather than listening to Gates' protestations. Should have been done after ID was showing, after that if Gates was yelling, the cop should have ignored him and left.

[Security Squish]

Gates yelled ("raised his voice") at the officer and demanded his name and badge number. The officer gave his name. Gates against yelled at the officer. The officer again gave his name. The officer left the house. Gates followed the officer and repeatedly yelled at the officer. The officer warned Gates. Gates did not stop. The officer warned Gates again and Gates once again did not stop. Gates was then arrested.

Assuming the officer's account is accurate (which is in dispute), it does not appear to be an abuse of authority. Your characterization is unabashedly biased towards Gates. What leads you to be so biased towards Gates? Why do you outright dismiss the the police officer's characterization of the events? This is why we have juries. This officer's reputation is forever ruined. But hey, he was a white cop. Chances are he was racist.

There is a good Slate article that has a great summary of the Mas. laws involved in this case. Basically the officer was required by law to provide Gates what he was demanding and there is no way a disorderly conduct charge could stick to Gates becasue of the place of his arrest and the speach involved in the "disorderly" charge.

It's a quick and good read.

I'm going with abuse of power but not necessarily racisim, because I don't if the cop was abusing power becasue Gates was black or just becasue the cop was pissed off.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

tt,

Being on the property "without cause" is dependent on the point of view. To gates it would be "without cause" because it was his damn home. Of course he should be pissed. In the cop's point of view, he was responding to a B and E and thus was on the property with cause investigating a call. In other words doing his job.

He'd confirmed the report was a false alarm. His cause for being on Prof. Gates's property had ended.

After that though, he should have just left rather than listening to Gates' protestations. Should have been done after ID was showing, after that if Gates was yelling, the cop should have ignored him and left.

Yes.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

DG,

Probably because one party in this imbroglio is an innocent man who was arrested in his own home after providing ID, and the other party is the jackass who arrested him.

Precisely. If an Officer comes to my house after I've had to break in because I forgot my keys, once the officer knows I'm there legitimately his job is done and he needs to leave. If I'm irritated by his presence or his attitude and behave rudely toward him then I'm being a jerk. Being a jerk isn't cause for arrest. The officer was pissed and took it out on Prof. Gates. The officer abused his authority.

[Tempra]

There is a good Slate article that has a great summary of the Mas. laws involved in this case. Basically the officer was required by law to provide Gates what he was demanding and there is no way a disorderly conduct charge could stick to Gates becasue of the place of his arrest and the speach involved in the "disorderly" charge.

It's a quick and good read.

I'm going with abuse of power but not necessarily racisim, because I don't if the cop was abusing power becasue Gates was black or just becasue the cop was pissed off.

Thanks for the read. The Officer claimed that he repeatedly told Gates his name/badge number. Does continually yelling that question constitute protected speech once you have your answer? I doubt "Yeah, I'll speak with your mama outside" is protected speech.

Whether the crime would have stuck is a separate question from whether the police officer abused his authority. Otherwise, a police officer would have abused his authority every time a charge is dropped or a person is found innocent.

[awesome possum]

I heard there was a time where cops would do things like help a fellow get into his house or change a flat tire on the side of the road. I wonder if that was ever true.

The last really is true. I was with a group of friends on the way to a concert when our tire blew out. We were luckily passing a rest stop, pulled in and I proceeded to get out the necessary equipment to make the tire change. As I was jacking the car up, a state trooper pulled into the lot, asked a few questions about how and where the tire blew and then basically pushed me out of the way and changed the tire for me.

To this day I'm not sure whether he was being incredibly kind, or he just didn't trust my friends and I to do the job right, considering we all looked like half-baked hippies. Either way, it was very cool and very surprising considering it was just outside of Chicago, where the majority of the cops I'd ever run into were rude beyond belief.

[Stego]

After a bit of research, the Boston Globe has discovered the cop who arrested this guy was an anti-racism expert who taught a class on profiling.

Again, it goes back to what I said days and days ago. Sword, you want to believe racism in EVERYONE. I'm sorry you have so much hatred, fear, and bias. But the chances of this event occurring because the professor was black are very, very small. It's because the moron did not know when to shut the fuck up.

The only racist in this story is the one who screaming racism.

[alguien]

The last really is true. I was with a group of friends on the way to a concert when our tire blew out. We were luckily passing a rest stop, pulled in and I proceeded to get out the necessary equipment to make the tire change. As I was jacking the car up, a state trooper pulled into the lot, asked a few questions about how and where the tire blew and then basically pushed me out of the way and changed the tire for me.

To this day I'm not sure whether he was being incredibly kind, or he just didn't trust my friends and I to do the job right, considering we all looked like half-baked hippies. Either way, it was very cool and very surprising considering it was just outside of Chicago, where the majority of the cops I'd ever run into were rude beyond belief.

Chicago cops can be scary. I've seen them do so pretty questionable things.

On the flip side, I can't imagine how difficult of a job it would be to work as a policeman in the Windy City.

[Tempra]

After a bit of research, the Boston Globe has discovered the cop who arrested this guy was an anti-racism expert who taught a class on profiling.

Again, it goes back to what I said days and days ago. Sword, you want to believe racism in EVERYONE. I'm sorry you have so much hatred, fear, and bias. But the chances of this event occurring because the professor was black are very, very small. It's because the moron did not know when to shut the fuck up.

The only racist in this story is the one who screaming racism.

"CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on understanding racial profiling.

Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class about racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_...olar_disorderly

Sounds like David Duke to me.