Legendary Weapons

[dragon wolf]

Dawn is likely the ASoFaI equivalent of our Excaliber. Or perhaps Excaliber's equivalent is Lightbringer? Can I request a catalogue of all the legendary weapons of Westeros and beyond?

It is curious that most of the great houses of Westeros have rare Valyrian blades (passed on from generation to generation), yet we have yet to hear of any ancestral sword(s) of the Targaryens. I also wonder how these Valyrian blades were originally dispersed in Westeros.

Are there any plans to have a history of these weapons in your World Book?

[Errant Bard]

But we know of Dark Sister and Blackfyre.

also see : http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/...n_steel_swords/

[Jon Targaryen]

It is curious that most of the great houses of Westeros have rare Valyrian blades (passed on from generation to generation), yet we have yet to hear of any ancestral sword(s) of the Targaryens. I also wonder how these Valyrian blades were originally dispersed in Westeros.

The Targaryens had Blackfyre and Dark Sister as two of their house Valyrian steel swords.

I subscribe to the theory that the Targaryens sold Valyrian steel weapons to Westerosi houses in order to raise money in the years following the Doom. Ice and Heartsbane are 400 and nearly 500 years "old" respectively and Longclaw was with the Mormonts for five centuries.

[dragon wolf]

But we know of Dark Sister and Blackfyre.

also see : http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/...n_steel_swords/

Sweeeet! Thanks.

[dragon wolf]

The Targaryens had Blackfyre and Dark Sister as two of their house Valyrian steel swords.

I subscribe to the theory that the Targaryens sold Valyrian steel weapons to Westerosi houses in order to raise money in the years following the Doom. Ice and Heartsbane are 400 and nearly 500 years "old" respectively and Longclaw was with the Mormonts for five centuries.

There are obviously just a handful of these swords in Westerosi, so rare that their histories and names are well known. But we know of at least one Valyrian dagger (unnamed), are these weapons less rare so they are not accounted and tracked as closely?

[Ran]

Tyrion says there are perhaps two hundred Valyrian steel weapons in Westeros, and thousands across the world. I figure a lot of them may well be nameless knives and daggers, though, so perhaps the actual number of "named" weapons of any significance is doubtless smaller.

[Bronn Stone]

It is curious that most of the great houses of Westeros have rare Valyrian blades (passed on from generation to generation), yet we have yet to hear of any ancestral sword(s) of the Targaryens.

As far as we know.

Starks = Ice, now reforged

Lannisters = Brightroar - lost, Widow's Wail, newly acquired

Tullys = None

Arryns = None

Martells = None

Baratheons = None save a dagger, not considered particularly valuable or interesting

Tyrells = None

Not sure how you got "most" out of that. At no point in our tale have even two of the great houses had a sword of Valyrian steel.

[The hairy bear]

As far as we know.

Starks = Ice, now reforged

Lannisters = Brightroar - lost, Widow's Wail, newly acquired

Tullys = None

Arryns = None

Martells = None

Baratheons = None save a dagger, not considered particularly valuable or interesting

Tyrells = None

Not sure how you got "most" out of that. At no point in our tale have even two of the great houses had a sword of Valyrian steel.

Besides Lannisters and Starks, I'd say that we just don't know wether they have Valyrian steel swords or not. The fact that we haven't heard of it it doesn't mean they don't exist.

For the houses that weren't "great" when the Targaryens would be selling their stock from Dragonstone, it's understanable that they don't have any: the Tullys were being oppresed by the Ironborn, and the Tyrells were just stewards.

For the Arryns and the Martells, I could completely buy at this point of the story that they own Valyrian steel swords. Neither Robert nor Doran are the types that would be boasting around with their sword.

I hope the World Book alos sheds some light into this.

[Guest Other-in-law]

Besides Lannisters and Starks, I'd say that we just don't know wether they have Valyrian steel swords or not. The fact that we haven't heard of it it doesn't mean they don't exist.

For the houses that weren't "great" when the Targaryens would be selling their stock from Dragonstone, it's understanable that they don't have any: the Tullys were being oppresed by the Ironborn, and the Tyrells were just stewards.

For the Arryns and the Martells, I could completely buy at this point of the story that they own Valyrian steel swords. Neither Robert nor Doran are the types that would be boasting around with their sword.

A distinct possibility is that the Gardeners had a VS sword, and that Aegon incorporated it into the Iron Throne. Someone did ask GRRM if there was any VS swords in the throne, and he gave a "keep reading" response...which suggests to me that there is. If the truth of it was a simple "no" there would be no reason to be coy about it or to lead the readers to expect anything more on the subject. The same might also be true of the Hoares and the old Stormkings; houses that were extinguished utterly have no one to pester him about giving their sword back, or to harbour a grudge, so Aegon would be free to use any swords of theirs (and the Green Hands, the very flower of chivalry, would be high on the list of probable owners) as the crowning jewels in his triumphalist chair.

The Arryns don't seem likely to me, if only because of the whole deal with Lysa buying a fancy jewel encrusted sword for Jon. VS is the very top of the line, it would be foolish even for her to try to impress her husband with a fancy sword if he already had one of the best possible swords imaginable.

There's many houses that could have them but we never see them, because their lords are too elderly or infirm to go into battle or are just reclusive, like Hightower or (as you say) Martell.

[dragon wolf]

As far as we know.

Starks = Ice, now reforged

Lannisters = Brightroar - lost, Widow's Wail, newly acquired

Tullys = None

Arryns = None

Martells = None

Baratheons = None save a dagger, not considered particularly valuable or interesting

Tyrells = None

Not sure how you got "most" out of that. At no point in our tale have even two of the great houses had a sword of Valyrian steel.

Its been stated (Tyrion, I believe) that there are approximately 200 VS in Westeros, common sense dictates that some of those Valyrian Swords would be in the possession of "most" of the great (newly great like the Tyrells as well as the older greats like the Martells) houses. I am sure GRRM has not disclosed the whereabouts of all 200, so just b/c the story has not revealed it, it is not conclusive that the houses you list do not possess a VS . Also the Targaryens had at least 2 of the VS, unless you don't consider the Targaryens a great house, and I am sure they had access to more since they were more than likely the source of the VS.

The Citadel is an awesome resource. Ran and his team have done a great job!

[TrueMetis]

A distinct possibility is that the Gardeners had a VS sword, and that Aegon incorporated it into the Iron Throne. Someone did ask GRRM if there was any VS swords in the throne, and he gave a "keep reading" response...which suggests to me that there is. If the truth of it was a simple "no" there would be no reason to be coy about it or to lead the readers to expect anything more on the subject. The same might also be true of the Hoares and the old Stormkings; houses that were extinguished utterly have no one to pester him about giving their sword back, or to harbour a grudge, so Aegon would be free to use any swords of theirs (and the Green Hands, the very flower of chivalry, would be high on the list of probable owners) as the crowning jewels in his triumphalist chair.

The Arryns don't seem likely to me, if only because of the whole deal with Lysa buying a fancy jewel encrusted sword for Jon. VS is the very top of the line, it would be foolish even for her to try to impress her husband with a fancy sword if he already had one of the best possible swords imaginable.

There's many houses that could have them but we never see them, because their lords are too elderly or infirm to go into battle or are just reclusive, like Hightower or (as you say) Martell.

What if the entire Iron Throne is made out of VS and no one but Aegon knew it. Think about it he takes down a house takes their sword and everyone assumes it was lost during the battle. It would explain why the blades are still sharp.

[dragon wolf]

What if the entire Iron Throne is made out of VS and no one but Aegon knew it. Think about it he takes down a house takes their sword and everyone assumes it was lost during the battle. It would explain why the blades are still sharp.

LOL. That actually makes sense in a wasteful kind of way. I mean there are only a limited amount of these things and Aegon would have literally destroyed these priceless items. But the Iron Throne is supposedly made up of a 1,000 swords, so it could not be made entirely of VS.

It does make a crazy kind of sense for the Iron Throne to have VS in it. Could be why the swords are still so sharp even after hundreds of years.

[TrueMetis]

LOL. That actually makes sense in a wasteful kind of way. I mean there are only a limited amount of these things and Aegon would have literally destroyed these priceless items. But the Iron Throne is supposedly made up of a 1,000 swords, so it could not be made entirely of VS.

It does make a crazy kind of sense for the Iron Throne to have VS in it. Could be why the swords are still so sharp even after hundreds of years.

Ya but it just seems like a cool possibility.

[Dreadwolf]

The Targaryens had Blackfyre and Dark Sister as two of their house Valyrian steel swords.

I subscribe to the theory that the Targaryens sold Valyrian steel weapons to Westerosi houses in order to raise money in the years following the Doom. Ice and Heartsbane are 400 and nearly 500 years "old" respectively and Longclaw was with the Mormonts for five centuries.

I've heard about this theory before.

And we also this http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showt...=Valyrian+steel

interesting old therad too.

One thing that bothers me in particular regarding the theory of Targs selling swordS for making money is that we have two Northern's Houses (one of them not even the Great One) in possession of pottentially most expensive VS swords. (Great swords and Bastrds swords require a good deal of raw material if not precious ornamental decorations. The HeartsBane is a Great sword too IIRC but it's not in the Great House possession as well). Lannisters and their bannermen (if we presume for fum that the Targs imposed some trade restriction of a kind 'one house - one sword, save for the King') had had only one VS sword at max ( there could be some more VS swords in other Western lords of which we are not aware I sHall admit however) all the time and we saw lord Tywin in a latter stage offering the dearest price to anybody willing to part from his VS sword. Highgarden is enormously rich establishment to pass without additional sign of nobility but I suppose here the argument will be that the Tyrells had just not existed or had HAD minor importance some 400/500 years ago. Still the area was rich and somone should be the beneficiary (Could that be the House Tarly BTW). Following the Law of supply and demand it appears that Targaryens if they really were running short of cash/ in need of fresh money were not so concerned about reaching the best bargains. But we still have the knowledge that even the mad King Aerys has always had (including after devastating civil war) the full confort of being in excellent cash and actually the good king Robert, or Petyr Baelish or lord Arryn or I don't know who is to be blamed for the empty treasury after a long and pleasant summer (at least the electric company bills are less during the summer as from my humble experience. :) )

And we have also that curious detail that Rhaegar was usually clad in his (real) rubby plate while poor golden lion of Lannisters was dressed in fake gold actually. The Targs might have not been so reach in the past I agree however even by that time they still had had their dragons. And if a Targ is inclined to summon the Fire as his champion in the Trial By Combat, I don’t believe they would need to borrow extra knowhow from the Dotrhaki khaal for example how the king could receive more extra gifts from their subordinates at will. If not for other reason for the Targs conqueror’s mentality. :mad:

[Ran]

Tyrion says there are perhaps 200 Valyrian steel blades in Westeros. They have to be spread around among houses we've not yet met -- (in fact,

SPOILER: A Dance with Dragons

a knight of House Horpe has a Valyrian steel sword

).

By the time the Tyrells came to power, I don't believe the Targaryens were selling Valyrian swords any longer. Usually, my supposition is that all that was done in the first years of their settlement and after the Doom, but by Aegon's day I expect few Valyrian steel weapons were left. Some lesser houses that own them may have beggared themselves to buy them, or been able to offer something as good as or better than money (say, a one of the Crackclaw Point petty lords swearing fealty and offering safe harborage when the Targaryens needed a toe-hold on the mainland), or they may have been given it as a gift by a liege lord who owned the weapon, or they may have won it in some other fashion.

We don't really know. All we really know is that houses like the Mormonts, Harlaws, Drumms, and Corbrays have them, and houses like the Tullys, Tyrells, Arryns, and Martells apparently don't.

There's nothing curious about the Rhaegar-Lannister thing, however. Rhaegar's breastplate had a dragon picked out in rubies, but otherwise it was steel. Jaime's armor is not solid gold -- it'd be very heavy and useless as armor if it were -- but instead it's gilded steel from head to toe. That's pretty costly too -- I saw an RL example of a modern-made suit of armor embellished with gold, and it was approximately four times as expensive as one without the gold. For that matter, recall that Loras Tyrell's armor was studded with dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of sapphires, while Renly Baratheon had a belt studded with chunks of black diamonds, and Tywin had rubies set in the eyes of the pommels of Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper.

None of these houses are poor. That Jaime's armor isn't studded with gemstones isn't because he can't afford it, it's because he didn't want it when the singular and complete gilding of his armor would be quite a fashion statement all of its own.

[Dreadwolf]

We don't really know. All we really know is that houses like the Mormonts, Harlaws, Drumms, and Corbrays have them, and houses like the Tullys, Tyrells, Arryns, and Martells apparently don't.

There's nothing curious about the Rhaegar-Lannister thing, however. Rhaegar's breastplate had a dragon picked out in rubies, but otherwise it was steel. Jaime's armor is not solid gold -- it'd be very heavy and useless as armor if it were -- but instead it's gilded steel from head to toe. That's pretty costly too -- I saw an RL example of a modern-made suit of armor embellished with gold, and it was approximately four times as expensive as one without the gold. For that matter, recall that Loras Tyrell's armor was studded with dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of sapphires, while Renly Baratheon had a belt studded with chunks of black diamonds, and Tywin had rubies set in the eyes of the pommels of Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper.

None of these houses are poor. That Jaime's armor isn't studded with gemstones isn't because he can't afford it, it's because he didn't want it when the singular and complete gilding of his armor would be quite a fashion statement all of its own.

First of all I apologize for many synax and grammar errors in my previous post. (I've tried to reduce them as much as I can)

And I actually agree with your explanation of Jaime's armor. Besides still prior reading of your reply I realized that its a complete nonsense if a warrior enters a battle clad in Gold Armor. The same folly would be if One wileds a golden sword. I gave the example mainly influanced by Tyrion's remark once in the books (that he would not actually explain the actual structure of his brother's armor when he was trying to impress some greedy guy at an instance. And that the Targs had the money for apparently redundant decorations. Any way your consideration about that are absolutely right)

I am also ready to accept that the Targs might have presented their VS swords to their faithful noble followers as a token of gratitude or insignia of honour. IMHO that would works.

I can also accept that there could be some old trade exchange relations between Old Valirya and the Seven Kingdoms in the time of Peace still prior the conquest.

I just am not ready to accept they are selling their highly esteemed swords.

The Old Targs IMO were clasical warriors with all the relevant virtues and prejudice.

I mean that the warrior generally is not willing to offer his fine swords or horses. Escpecially to someone recently conquered and whose loyalty may be questioned.

My notion is more emotional than rational I shall admit however (I once played an old computer AD&D game where it was not possible to sell the sword you are eqiuped with.:))

[Dreadwolf]

I was taken away from my lurking the boards and posting a while ago due to urgency of my family business.

(My almost grown up daughter needed her sustenance.)

So while I was casting my secret spells over the hot-plate and the pan - a crazy idea crossed my mind which I deemed was worth sharing. You know - my Valiryan pane-cakes are the best (or at least my family so claims) not only because of the unique ingredients involved. Whatever...

As we know VS weapons have some special magic attributes of which we still got not the full knowledge so IMHO the speculations are well come.

What if one these works like that:

- If a man (sincerely) bestowed a VS blade as a gift to someone and once the latter accepts the gift - He turns to be the grantor's best sworn sword One can ever acquire - without the recipient's knowledge or his special oath to be required at all. The knowledge about that may have been kept in deep and absolute secrecety so nowadays even a legend or fairy tales were remaining about.

There could be raised some quick argunets of course that Robert's Rebellion indicated that the Targs were not able to buy the full allegiance of their subservients but we had also seen many Lords fighting faithfully at theit side almost until the end. And we also have the issue with the magic having been severely abated by that time.

And the connection may become less stronger with so many generations and their branches passing their way.

It would be also interesting to re-consider Brienne/ Jaime relations; Joffrey/ Bran's assassin.

Solving the sword/noose cliff-hanger may turn some more light in the next books to come BTW.

We also see that Tarlies are extremely faithful to Tyrells which can has its old magic grounds.

It's just a crazy idea of mine.

One side note:

We actually saw the Targs once in a desperate need of money (Vyseris and Danny sold even the crown IIRC). However the situation was changed once the dragons have entered the scene. We saw then Dany much more unyielding and resourceful in solving her cash-flow difficulty.

[Guest Other-in-law]

SPOILER: A Dance with Dragons

a knight of House Horpe has a Valyrian steel sword

Cool! I missed that if it's in one of the posted chapter summaries. That means they've got

SPOILER: aDwD

two VS swords on the Wall so far. Plus "Lightbringer" which may or may not actually be any good against the Others. My impression was that House Horpe was a small to middling house in importance; they weren't mentioned in the principal houses of the aGoT appendix, anyway.

I am also ready to accept that the Targs might have presented their VS swords to their faithful noble followers as a token of gratitude or insignia of honour. IMHO that would works.

The Old Targs IMO were clasical warriors with all the relevant virtues and prejudice.

I mean that the warrior generally is not willing to offer his fine swords or horses. Escpecially to someone recently conquered and whose loyalty may be questioned.

What if those recently conquered had subsequently provided loyal service that the king wished to show gratitude for? If you meant he wouldn't sell them to the recently conquered, I don't think anyone's suggesting that. Any sales would have been before the Conquest, most like.

I can also accept that there could be some old trade exchange relations between Old Valirya and the Seven Kingdoms in the time of Peace still prior the conquest.

I just am not ready to accept they are selling their highly esteemed swords.

I can see a prejudice against mercantile trade...on the part of Westerosi nobility, to be sure. But the old Valyrians came from a somewhat different culture, so that doesn't necessarily apply to them. While it's certainly easy to overdo the Rome/Valyria comparison, I don't think there was quite the same stigma against merchants there if one grew very rich at at it (though I haven't studied ancient Rome very much, so anyone can correct me if that impression is wrong). In series, we do see that the cultural heirs of old Valyria in the Free Cities have no problem with Merchant Princes, in stark contrast to the Westerosi attitude.

The bottom line is that some, if not all of these houses that have held VS for centuries acquired them before the Conquest one way or another. Sales seem like the most probable explanation (I do like the idea of gifts in reward for safe landing spots, but that could only apply to a few at most, and certainly not to actual opponents like the Starks), though they could have been made by Free Cities traders who grabbed up whatever swords they found as easily as by the Targaryens themselves. Otoh, at least some of these must have been sold.traded/given/whatever before the Doom.

[Quitter]

That is true though just cos we don't know that they have one they could still have one! But i dunno lol maybe not!!

[King Bronn l]

I just read the thread and am amazed that noone suggested commisions as a way the VS Swords ended up in westeros. I could see Andal lords before the doom going to Valyria abd seeing the wonderful swords there and commisioning a Valyrian smith to make one for them.