The "new" definition of Racism or

[DanteGabriel]

Exactly, its about WEALTH, not skin colour. I'm glad you agree.

Actually I think BOTH are pretty important factors. There's no one factor. Modern society is complex. Lots of moving parts. Two of those parts are race and money.

[Black Dow]

The poor oppressed white male? Seriously I have a friend who's a white guy from a wealthy family who didn't play sports, and has had hundreds of thousands in scholarships he'll graduate from law school this year with our any help from his parents or debt. He's worked part time at a library during the summer. Either you’re not applying for right ones, or you’re not a good writer or both.

Perhaps not every one is gifted enough to get hundred of thousands of dollars worth of scholarships. It just so happens that there are poor whites in this country, and they don't need this type of 'pull up yourself by the bootstrap' patronization anymore than poor people of other races need it.

[Frog Eater]

What this does is remind me of a truth that the GOP's racist strategies of the last few decades have spent a lot of time obscuring: poor black and white people have a lot more in common with each other than they do with rich people of any color.

This is very true.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Actually I think BOTH are pretty important factors. There's no one factor. Modern society is complex. Lots of moving parts. Two of those parts are race and money.

But money is far more important than race. Particularly in America.

I'm not denying racism is a factor in 'white privilege', but the vast majority of it is simply the fact that white people tend to be wealthier than blacks. Wealth breeds greater privilege.

Money talks. Race and merit walk.

[turinturambar]

The poor oppressed white male? Seriously I have a friend who's a white guy from a wealthy family who didn't play sports, and has had hundreds of thousands in scholarships he'll graduate from law school this year with our any help from his parents or debt. He's worked part time at a library during the summer. Either you’re not applying for right ones, or you’re not a good writer or both.

He didn't apply for any of his scholarships.

Most of the scholarships handed out by the school of business are based upon academic performance. Only outside scholarships are based upon essays, and he didn't apply to(or receive) any of those.

I can also be guaranteed that I'll have to apply to 10 times the internships and job applications before landing something decent. If a top 4 accounting firm comes by and recruits 10 people for internships you can almost be guaranteed that at least 4 of them will be minorities, even if minorities make up less than 1/10 of business students. In other words, I'll be competing with at least 900 people for each spot, he'll be competing with less than 100 people for each spot. He'll stand a good chance to land a great internship, while I will have to pretty much maintain perfect grades just to get looked at.

[TrackerNeil]

Mods:

Close this thread. For the love of the gods, please close this thread.

[SwordoftheMorning]

Sword, do you happen to have a link to support your assertion that 12 or 13 unarmed black men were shot by Cincinnati police in a two or three year period?

As a matter of fact, there were approximately 15 black men shot (and killed) by the CPD in what was actually a time period of over 10 years, and the vast majority of these people were most certainly NOT unarmed.

Now, I suppose there were additional non-fatal shooting of unarmed black men that I never heard of in Cincinnati over a 2 to 3 years. If you were referring to the fatal ones, not only did you get confused by the national media's misrepresentation as to the nature of most of the shootings but you were mistaken to the time frame as well.

By the way, the riots were an absolute disaster for the city and only made things worse.

I thought it was clear I was going by my off the cuff recollections, I'm not inclined to look up links about the particular situation.

ONLY 15 shot and killed ina 10 year time period ? wow, thats only .... 1.5 a year.....

The issue was the fact that these were shooting of UNARMED Black men. And that the CPD and the city fathers continually made the mistake of acting like there was no cultural flaw in the police dept and justice system that made these killings acceptable.

Chicago is like 3 or 4 times the size of Cincy, how many shootings of unarmed Black men do you think were committed in the Windy City in that time frame ?

You don't know ? I dont either. It's not a frequent enough issue to be highlighted. I can remember the one girl who was shot and killed for pulling out her cell phone, but not much more than that. Not to say police brutality isn't a problem in Chicago too. Just not the egregious number of unarmed people shot dead.

http://brownwatch.squarespace.com/police-brutality-archives/

There ... thats an ongoing link of police "incidients" involving Black and Brown people going back I don't know how far. All seem to be press accounts, But the sheer number listed on that page is fucking depressing. I'm sure the "defenders" of cop intentions who see no racism regardless of the situation will dismiss this information also. I really don't care. Maybe some who aren't sure of who prevalent this issue is will end up more informed.

[alguien]

No problem Lt. Everyone's a racist because.....

Difference being, I've never said every white person is a racist nor have I even come close to implying it, whereas you've actually typed "I'm not a Racist but" in your delightfully illuminating thread about hunting down black children in your neighborhood.

I have the idea that if you did the same you might figure out why you feel the need to assume racism is in other people so often.

I have looked in mirror. I'm comfortable with what I see. I don't think everyone is racist, not even close. But I acknowledge that racism is still a ongoing problem in today's American society. Something you seem to have trouble doing, though I can't imagine why...

[Black Dow]

I thought it was clear I was going by my off the cuff recollections, I'm not inclined to look up links about the particular situation.

ONLY 15 shot and killed ina 10 year time period ? wow, thats only .... 1.5 a year.....

The issue was the fact that these were shooting of UNARMED Black men. And that the CPD and the city fathers continually made the mistake of acting like there was no cultural flaw in the police dept and justice system that made these killings acceptable.

Chicago is like 3 or 4 times the size of Cincy, how many shootings of unarmed Black men do you think were committed in the Windy City in that time frame ?

You don't know ? I dont either. It's not a frequent enough issue to be highlighted. I can remember the one girl who was shot and killed for pulling out her cell phone, but not much more than that. Not to say police brutality isn't a problem in Chicago too. Just not the egregious number of unarmed people shot dead.

http://brownwatch.squarespace.com/police-brutality-archives/

There ... thats an ongoing link of police "incidients" involving Black and Brown people going back I don't know how far. All seem to be press accounts, But the sheer number listed on that page is fucking depressing. I'm sure the "defenders" of cop intentions who see no racism regardless of the situation will dismiss this information also. I really don't care. Maybe some who aren't sure of who prevalent this issue is will end up more informed.

Most of the shootings were NOT of unarmed black men; most were of armed black men.

The time period that I previously referred to was actually over 16 years. Of the 15 men killed, only 3 were actually without weapons of any kind. Four police offiers were themselves killed or wounded in these incidents.

[Kalbear]

I can't speak clearly as to whether or not I'm a racist; people that know me probably can.

I can speak clearly to someone who was willing to call black kids n*s but decided not to. If you had to think about it? You're a racist. The fact that you'd want to use a racially hateful term in order to denigrate anyone you don't like? You're a racist.

That's pretty easy.

So yeah, KSI/Meili lecturing anyone on racism not being around is really, really ironic to me.

[Stego]

http://brownwatch.squarespace.com/police-brutality-archives/

There ... thats an ongoing link of police "incidients" involving Black and Brown people going back I don't know how far.

White people don't ever have shit haoppen to them. Nope. Police high five us as they walk by, we give them the secret nod/wink, and they go about trodding upon the lesser races.

Everything is color to you, Sword, and that is why you are, by far, the most racist person this board has ever seen. Even that Nazi freakshow dude talks about other topics. Not you. Kill Whitey is all your brain has room for these days. Must suck to be you.

[Stego]

I can't speak clearly as to whether or not I'm a racist; people that know me probably can.

You're white.

[Kalbear]

You're white.

Oh, fine. Hold that against me.

[Tempra]

News flash: A character reference by a black police officer is not evidence of anything. People can easily look at the statements of Ms Whalen that she never mentioned black men with backpacks, and even allowed for the fact that the person jamming the door may have lived at the residence to draw their own conclusions.

In other news, police officers sometimes stick together.

I am more and more convinced that the President was absolutely correct when he said the CPD "acted stupidly". Whether or not race was involved is hard to prove either way, but to dismiss those who raise the issue is unwarranted.

Did you just say that the statement of a black officer saying that he saw nothing racially discriminatory is "not evidence of anything." WTF? Go to your local court of common pleas for one hour and see how much weight a police officer's statement has. The fact that the group of officers on the scene was multiracial is very probative that no discrimination took place. Short of a video tape of the incident, it is about as probative as you can get. Not evidence of anything? Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

I'm with TrackerNeil here. This thread is going nowhere good fast.

[turinturambar]

Oh, fine. Hold that against me.

Are you saying you only hug white people? ;)

[TheKassi]

Well, here are the real statistics of police shootings as broken down by race, both the race of the police, and the race of the guy getting shot.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/justify.htm

[Tempra]

Why do those who ...lets say disagree with me on the Gates arrest continually accuse me of "reading race" into the incident with "no evidence" ? Is it a designed response thats supposed to belittle what I have to say because "I see race in everything" ? I think so, since it is so consistent and repeatedly ignores the fact that I waited 2 days to post on the subject to let most of the story come out and PROFESSOR GATES SAID CLEARLY IN THE ROOTS.COM INTERVIEW THAT HE FELT RACIALLY INTIMIDATED AND VICTIMIZED.

Now, agree or disagree with Professor Gates as you will. but fuck you in the earhole to those who continue to falsely accuse me of "READING INTO" a gotdamn thing.

You have made it clear that you do not care to weigh all the evidence in the Gates's situation. Instead, you want to believe Gates's statement wholeheartedly. You are taking your own circumstances and beliefs have imputed them into this situation. Why else would a white cop arrest a black man? Racism is the only acceptable answer. You completely disregard the statement of other minority officers at the scene. It doesn't comport with the way you want and believe the events to have transpired. So yes, i think it is fair to say that you are reading race into the situation.

Maybe the cops abused their power. There are quite a few people on this board who believe that. Yet you are one of the few who continually believes that IT HAD TO BE BECAUSE OF RACE BECAUSE PROFESSOR GATES SAID SO. The facts don't point your way! If you want to take a righteous stand, at least find a case where the facts go your way. God knows, there are many prime examples of racism in this country.

[Tempra]

I'm with TrackerNeil here. This thread is going nowhere good fast.

This thread was a trainwreck from the very first post. In the immortal words of Gordon Ramsey: "SHUT IT DOWN!"

[SwordoftheMorning]

You have made it clear that you do not care to weigh all the evidence in the Gates's situation. Instead, you want to believe Gates's statement wholeheartedly. You are taking your own circumstances and beliefs have imputed them into this situation. Why else would a white cop arrest a black man? Racism is the only acceptable answer. You completely disregard the statement of other minority officers at the scene. It doesn't comport with the way you want and believe the events to have transpired. So yes, i think it is fair to say that you are reading race into the situation.

Maybe the cops abused their power. There are quite a few people on this board who believe that. Yet you are one of the few who continually believes that IT HAD TO BE BECAUSE OF RACE BECAUSE PROFESSOR GATES SAID SO. The facts don't point your way! If you want to take a righteous stand, at least find a case where the facts go your way. God knows, there are many prime examples of racism in this country.

man, you are some piece of work ....

Really like that moving target thing. The stupid beyond belief point you continue to attempt to tap dance to is your and others groundless accusation I "read race into the situation" when there is no evidence of such. No matter what after the fact conclusions you try to spin, thats simply no the fucking case. Gates statement is evidence, despite the fact that you and your ilk choose to completely disregard it. So factually, ignoring all of your coming round the mountain bullshit rationalizations of what you THINK I said or meant, that was all the evidence I need to show beyond and shadow of a doubt your accusation is fulla shit.

You wanna play lawyer and argue where the facts point ? All you are saying is YOUR viewpoint is correct, and since I don't agree with it, I'm wrong. Well fuck that. If you go back thru the Gates thread, you'll be shocked to find out the majority of posters there did agree with me. There was something incredibly wrong about the arrest, and Gates's viewpoint that it was racially motivated made sense to them. But I know you won't. It's easier to continue making false and baseless accusations while ignoring both the facts of that case and the reality here on this board.

Mods. It's partially my fault at least, but the argument here is devolving into further endless debate about the Gates incident. We had a good run discussing the definition and real effect of racism in general, but I think thats outta steam. Please close the thread.