Women in combat, bad/good idea?

[King Nobody]

Re: Tempra

If we suppose that captured soldiers will be treated differently based on sex, then might we not also employ the "men go light on women" trope and figure that women will be less likely than men to receive harsh physical torture? I mean, we're talking about violating Geneva Convention, so rape and torture are on the table. If women are more prone to being raped, are they also less prone to being tortured?

I've only read to the second page so I don't know if this has been said yet, but rape and torture are two different things. Torture is usually used to get information out of someone, it would usually be sanctioned by higher command. Sure, torture might still be used, but MOST people don't derive pleasure from torturing someone, so unless they were commanded to, whats the point?

He wasn't suggesting the higher ups would order or even condone rape, it would still be a war crime. Rape would happen for two reasons, sexual gratification, and because they would assume they would have a high chance of getting away with it. For MOST people, torture wouldn't give them any kind of gratification, so there's no real point to just doing it for no reason.

I don't really see your logic in thinking that because rape is happening torture is definitely going to happen as well, however his logic, in assuming rape will happen probably holds more credence based solely on human nature and desire.

[zollo]

To get back to the original thread topic, i'll just echo what others have already said upthread, although ofcourse I only feel really competent to speak about the Israeli army, and since i've had a couple days to think about it (when does that ever happen with a forum post?), i''ve boiled it down for the hearteningly few naysayers:

Fuck you and fuck your anachronistic chauvinist notions. You might as well be arguing about whether its a good idea to give women the vote since we tend to faint a lot.

This argument is over and we won. Women in infantry are a fucking fact on the ground, as we say around here. Women all over the world have been in combat. They've fought, led, been captured, been killed. Militaries have not been massively compromised, the world is not a more fucked place than it was before, hearts have not broken and men's precious psychies have remained unrivened.

I am done needing to prove anything. I, and mostly the women who came before me, have already proven that we are effective, functional, run-of-the-mill infantry soldiers. We proved it the hard way, taking the crap and fighting for every bloody piece of respect and credit. We've proved it with our feet and backs and sweat and scars. We proved it through being condescended to and fetishized and mollycoddled.

We got through the years when our real injuries and real needs were ignored and misunderstood but our training was fucked up because of overhyped histrionics that we might have fertility problems someday. The years when we had only the shittiest, most sisyphean, dullest missions and lines becuase we could get captured and raped (the only really important parts of us are our wombs and our cunts). We had the least funding, the worst, oldest, most second rate gear, the lowest dregs of what anyone could bring themselves to call officers and we are still good soldiers in good battalions.

We have moved on to harder and harder missions, that no one could ever imagine girls holding, always becuase we were the best unit for the job. We have raised and raised the levels of qualifications available for female commanders. Demanded - and recieved - better, harder, smarter training for every new company. We've had women qualify in ever more courses and specializations and weapons. We have yet to fail and we have not yet been pushed to anywhere like the edge of our professional ability.

The question is long since not if - its how far to go, how to get better at what we do, and when men will stop being such snivelling pussies about it.

I don't quite understand why this thread is still going on after above post. The cat's out of the bag, folks, pwned in capitals - thread closed.

[Tyrellius]

I don't quite understand why this thread is still going on after above post. The cat's out of the bag, folks, pwned in capitals - thread closed.

After all the rape stuff I guess people are waiting for some jaw kicking to happen or at the very least some sort of demonic fowl to appear.

[King Nobody]

I don't quite understand why this thread is still going on after above post. The cat's out of the bag, folks, pwned in capitals - thread closed.

I'm going to take what seems to be the feminist approach in what you quoted in saying, "cite your sources".

[WhiteHaven]

After all the rape stuff I guess people are waiting for some jaw kicking to happen or at the very least some sort of demonic fowl to appear.

Thanks for the smile.

Does anyone know in which countries one might encounter women in the army? I think everywhere in Europe, right? I mean, even we, back in Turkey have women in the army and most of our men are chauvinist idiots.

[TrueMetis]

I thought I made this thread pointless when I pointed out that Women have been in the Canadian Military in all roles for 25-30 years. This includes infantry, at this point I believe that there is something like 1500 female infantry soldiers in the CAF.

[hnv]

No Thank you.

as a former infantry man I wouldn't have wanted a female in our company...with all the progress and shit people tend to forget that women in the combat zone tend to be a liabillity

[Ran]

Anyone in a combat zone tends to be a potential liability, I should think; that's why one generally tries to avoid creating combat zones. But what do I know...

[Ocean of Notions]

So after scrolling through the 10+ and reading some posts here and there, from what I can tell, the "problem" with women in combat doesn't have much to do with women at all. The problems seems to be that men are the ones who have problems. Fuck that.

[Young Wolf]

No Thank you.

as a former infantry man I wouldn't have wanted a female in our company...with all the progress and shit people tend to forget that women in the combat zone tend to be a liabillity

Uh...I could have counted more than a handful of men in my unit that were are just as shit or as much as a "liability" as any woman would have been.

I dont give a fuck if they have tits or a dick...all I cared about is could they do the fucking job? If the answer is yes, then what are we arguing about here?

[Lord O' Bones]

Are armor and artillery never on the front lines?

If artillery is on the front lines, they're doing it wrong.

No Thank you.

as a former infantry man I wouldn't have wanted a female in our company...with all the progress and shit people tend to forget that women in the combat zone tend to be a liabillity

13 pages of zany fun, effectively concluded with a glorious curb-stomp from Datepalm, and the guy that comes in here to try to hit the reset button is Israeli military?

This board is amazing.

[Young Wolf]

If artillery is on the front lines, they're doing it wrong.

Or some shit is about to get real. :P

13 pages of zany fun, effectively concluded with a glorious curb-stomp from Datepalm, and the guy that comes in here to try to hit the reset button is Israeli military?

This board is amazing.

Cmon...you know that's why we all keep coming back. Every day, every single day here, there is at least one comment you can read that will make you say in your mind,"I cant believe that motherfucker said that."

[Elrostar]

No Thank you.

as a former infantry man I wouldn't have wanted a female in our company...with all the progress and shit people tend to forget that women in the combat zone tend to be a liabillity

What does this even mean? "Women in the combat zone tend to be a liabillity [sp]"?

By which you mean... they get shot more? They can't shoot? They can't fight? They breathe too much oxygen? Or too little? They don't have penises? They're distracted by penises? They aren't distracted by breasts? They have distracting breasts? They have even more distracting vaginas?

What? I really don't get it.

I thought Datepalm made a pretty convincing argument that women are able to perform competently in the IDF. I suppose you could argue that the experiences in the IDF can't be extrapolated to other military forces because the IDF is a sub-par fighting force that doesn't use cutting edge technology and isn't capable of hanging with the serious military forces of the world. But that would be a pretty stupid argument.

[Lord O' Bones]

Or some shit is about to get real. :P

That too.

Cmon...you know that's why we all keep coming back. Every day, every single day here, there is at least one comment you can read that will make you say in your mind,"I cant believe that motherfucker said that."

True that!

What does this even mean? "Women in the combat zone tend to be a liabillity [sp]"?

I think I have an answer. What if you have to do a fast march through the desert? Hydration is vital, but we no what it leads to: The need to pee.

Think about it. A man can pee on the move without soiling himself or his comrades. A woman would have to stop marching.

I've convinced myself and have changed my mind. Women in infantry: BANNED!

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

If artillery is on the front lines, they're doing it wrong.

Well, or there aren't any lines, nevermind front lines. Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan spring to mind. I presume this is also true of the occupation of the Philippines, but all I really know about the conflict itself, rather than the politics involved, can be reduced to 'American soldiers sure did kill a lot of people.'

[Ocean of Notions]

I think I have an answer. What if you have to do a fast march through the desert? Hydration is vital, but we no what it leads to: The need to pee.

Think about it. A man can pee on the move without soiling himself or his comrades. A woman would have to stop marching.

I've convinced myself and have changed my mind. Women in infantry: BANNED!

Problem solved.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

That too.

True that!

I think I have an answer. What if you have to do a fast march through the desert? Hydration is vital, but we no what it leads to: The need to pee.

Think about it. A man can pee on the move without soiling himself or his comrades. A woman would have to stop marching.

I've convinced myself and have changed my mind. Women in infantry: BANNED!

If the situation is that bad, there are always those adult diapers.

[Lord O' Bones]

Problem solved.

You know, I considered that. But by the time those things made it into the military supply system, they would cost $1,109 each. That would cost a fortune, besides which now we're talking about outfitting female soldiers with $1,109 worth of equipment that male soldiers don't get? No way. Inequality based on sex cannot be tolerated.

[Ocean of Notions]

OK, after reading back further, some of the previous posts are quite infuriating. What's this shit about how this is an equal right we "don't want"? And further shit about rape? If women are going into this, knowing the risks, and are capable, why are they barred from serving their country? Why do others get to make these decisions for them because these other people somehow know better due to their sex? How fucking patronising. And what's this shit about how men can't handle women getting hurt in the line of duty? So are you admitting that the problem with women in combat is not women, but you? You're too weak so we have to protect your peace of mind though discrimination?

You know, I considered that. But by the time those things made it into the military supply system, they would cost $1,109 each. That would cost a fortune, besides which now we're talking about outfitting female soldiers with $1,109 worth of equipment that male soldiers don't get? No way. Inequality based on sex cannot be tolerated.

They're $19 for three...

[Lord of Oop North]

They're $19 for three...

Sheesh. The Military-Industrial-Complex needs to make it's cut. $19 won't even cover their sports cars.