So I think I’m an atheist (or at least a really strong agnostic) now

[Frosty]

Crazydog religion will NEVER hold up to Science because it defies pragmatic convention and logic.

I am a Christian - just the worst kind cause I can't stop drinking beer, swearing or lusting after women.

[Jed o' Tarth]

I was never into religion. Seems like all they want to do is take away your independent thought and replace it with what they tell you to think.

I prefer my own ideas of life, the universe, and everything (heh). Trying to tell me what to think and how to go about my views is just stupid. It's controlling and selfish. People need to realize that just because they see something a certain way that others not only -do- see it differently, but they also have the -right- as a sentient being to do so!

Everything, and I do mean everything, is tainted by everyone's own personal perspective. It's ridiculous for us all to -have- to have the same ideas of the meaning of life and the 'there-after' (if there even -is- one).

Reality is relative. So is everything else. Be human. Make up your own mind.

ETA: typing too fast for my brain.

[Week]

I am a Christian - just the worst kind cause I can't stop drinking beer, swearing or lusting after women.

God created man in his own image. Although, "God" I think refers to Zeus or Dionysus as the true creators. :P

[kungtotte]

@ the OP

It seems like you're breaking your own rules to arrive at your conclusion. You say that religion and the existence of god(s) should be looked at logically, but you reach the conclusion that there is no god because your family are religious bigots. You want to rely on logic but your conclusion is based on emotion. You may want to re-investigate your premise and see if you (a) don't actually believe in God (b) are just pissed off at him/her/them or his/her/their followers.

Elvis knows I'm as atheist as they come, but I'd like to second this. In a perfect world everybody would see reason and be atheists, but until such time you shouldn't let religion get in the way of your believing in God. I forget who said it, but I think this quote sums it up: "I have no problem with God, it's his fan club I can't stand."

When the blinders are lifted from your eyes and you become an atheist, you should do it because logic and reason led you to conclude that there is no God. Not because you don't like some people who also believe in God. That would be like me accepting Jesus Christ as my personal saviour because Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins come off as jerks.

[Crazydog7]

So wait....yeah I get that point sort but that kind of comes back to conflict I always trying to defend with religion v. non theism it not flow that if all atheists, agnostics whatever are logical or trying to think through things logically that all Christians are illogical in least in so far as there explanation. That was when I first realized I couldn't tow the party line anymore a belief structure that doesn't let you question the actual belief but will let you make increasing bizarre explanations for things you can't explain in the bible as in.....dinosaurs

No problem with God, its just his fanclub I can't stand. I like that. So when one becomes an agnostic one can't use emotion as justification for stuff? Yeah I get that argument I am pretty emotional especially after that phone call. In making an emotional I have been challenged to question an existing way of looking at the world. Is that logical or that emotional? Probably a bit of both. If that comes across as a bit paradoxical it has been an interesting week bear with me please.

Looking back on it I can see the signs I always despised the indoctrination of very young children, the merging of secular politics and religion and also the one thing all good disabled children know if they pray really hard when they die God will give them a brand new body. True these are very emotional starting off points especially don't get me started on the last one.

Soare there 101 classes I have to take? Is there some kind of a support group? I order the God Delusion when I'm done reading it I'll post what I think.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

CD,

You've got to be honest with yourself about what you believe, or don't believe. If you honestly don't believe there is a God, so be it.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

So wait....yeah I get that point sort but that kind of comes back to conflict I always trying to defend with religion v. non theism it not flow that if all atheists, agnostics whatever are logical or trying to think through things logically that all Christians are illogical in least in so far as there explanation. That was when I first realized I couldn't tow the party line anymore a belief structure that doesn't let you question the actual belief but will let you make increasing bizarre explanations for things you can't explain in the bible as in.....dinosaurs

No problem with God, its just his fanclub I can't stand. I like that. So when one becomes an agnostic one can't use emotion as justification for stuff? Yeah I get that argument I am pretty emotional especially after that phone call. In making an emotional I have been challenged to question an existing way of looking at the world. Is that logical or that emotional? Probably a bit of both. If that comes across as a bit paradoxical it has been an interesting week bear with me please.

I understand your pain and thought process, I think you're just not coming to the appropriate conclusion, given your presented information. The ultimate destination of that path is to be areligious (is that a word?). You have not really investigated the existence or nature of God(s) overmuch, merely decided that the organized followings of such are not for you. This is a long step from being athiestic, however, and would require a completely different chain of thought and logic.

[Crazydog7]

CD,

You've got to be honest with yourself about what you believe, or don't believe. If you honestly don't believe there is a God, so be it.

Not quite there yet I don't think but I want to explore the option for awhile. To honest I am somewhat not saddened but regretful so much easier when it was the Christians again the forces of darkness but I finally came to the realization that admiring the music and doing something because the family has done it that way is not a sound rational for "faith" now my two favorite songs?

but I have always been partial to this one

[kungtotte]

Soare there 101 classes I have to take? Is there some kind of a support group? I order the God Delusion when I'm done reading it I'll post what I think.

Bear in mind that Richard Dawkins and particularly The God Delusion is as far as you can go on the atheism-scale. You really don't get more atheist than that, and it's bordering on atheist fundamentalism, so for someone like you who has just come over so to speak I'm sure it will be a shocking experience. I mean, I've been a staunch atheist since as long as I can remember and it was still kind of jarring to me.

As for classes and support-groups, there's really not a prescribed method for Atheism 101. Just be relaxed and groovy. :smoking:

[IheartTesla]

Soare there 101 classes I have to take? Is there some kind of a support group? I order the God Delusion when I'm done reading it I'll post what I think.

We have a secret handshake and a secret password that gets you to the smoke filled backroom where our cabal sets our agenda to indocrtrinate the unsuspecting children of today and tomorrow. The handshake is something like this - \_ _/ and the password is 'BANANAS'.

[the silent speaker]

So when one becomes an agnostic one can't use emotion as justification for stuff? Yeah I get that argument I am pretty emotional especially after that phone call.

I would say not so much "you can't use emotion as justification" and more "there are any number of things that don't follow rationalistic assessment anyway, so it's not a fair criticism of religion that it happens to be one of them." Logic and reason are very valuable tools, but it is entirely too tempting to fall into the trap of viewing everything as a nail.

Either way, I wish you well in your search for questions with answers. :)

[Shryke]

I'll be seeing you all in Hell then I guess.

....

From Heaven.

[kungtotte]

Jimi Hendrix, Brian Jones, Hunter S. Thompson, Freddie Mercury, Johnny Ramone, Joey Ramone, Dee-Dee Ramone, Keith Moon, John Bonham, Johnny Thunders, Jerry Nolan, Janis Joplin, Bon Scott and many, many more. Hell is going to be a fucking blast when I get there.

Who've you got up there in Heaven? Yeah, that's what I thought. :cool:

[Shryke]

Jimi Hendrix, Brian Jones, Hunter S. Thompson, Freddie Mercury, Johnny Ramone, Joey Ramone, Dee-Dee Ramone, Keith Moon, John Bonham, Johnny Thunders, Jerry Nolan, Janis Joplin, Bon Scott and many, many more. Hell is going to be a fucking blast when I get there.

Who've you got up there in Heaven? Yeah, that's what I thought. :cool:

Your assuming you get to hang with other people in Hell. It's more about internal suffering and torment all by yourself.

Me? I'm gonna be hanging with Jesus, he of the bottomless amphora.

Read Paradise Lost. Hell is where the whiners ended up. Heaven is for the drinkers.

[kungtotte]

Welp, 'tis better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Welp, 'tis better to reign in Hell than to serve in Heaven.

A weird phrase. No one reigns in hell.

[kungtotte]

For now. Once I get down there there'll be some changes, let me tell you.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

More like 'highly condensed'. 'Totally Depraved' as defined by God as interprited by the 'elect'. (Spent way too much time on these debates way back when).

No, it was not highly condensed, since it both presented an incomplete picture and contained some rather gross inaccuracies. And 'Totally Depraved' is simply defined by humankind, both elect and non-elect as an interpretation of their present condition and the relationship with God.

Yes, Calvinism is a result of the protestant revolution - as is Lutherism and Universalism (worth keeping in mind that the 'original' Universalist was burned at the stake by Calvinists, probably at Calvins direct order - unless you want to engage in pointless legalistic arguments to the contrary).

Where did the need for this point come from? It seems so beside the point, if not irrelevant.

I understand your pain and thought process, I think you're just not coming to the appropriate conclusion, given your presented information. The ultimate destination of that path is to be areligious (is that a word?). You have not really investigated the existence or nature of God(s) overmuch, merely decided that the organized followings of such are not for you. This is a long step from being athiestic, however, and would require a completely different chain of thought and logic.

In addition: Has he investigated as many of the variant teachings of the different religions and denominations as he could?

[Wastrel]

I did feel sad for some of the christian deconverts, or rather sad about the situations they were in; several of them lost all their friends, their families, and even their jobs as a result of deconverting.

I have to say, this is exactly the same for atheists who convert to a religion. I have some friends who announced that they were Christians (in a religous sense, as opposed to the normal default census option sense), and although I try to keep in touch with them they've been almost entirely anathematised by most of my friends.

Personally, I can't much stand atheism. The only things equally annoying are theism and agnosticism. All three options tend, 90% of the time, to be entirely wrong-headed on religious questions.

[Ocean of Notions]

One can totally appreciate the art that comes from faith even if one is an atheist. Some of the most beautiful works of art that ever existed were made by man in worship of god(s).