Peter Watts beaten and arrested at US Border

[Werthead]

This blog has pointed out another anomaly.

US border guards are federal agents (which I didn't know). If Watts indeed 'attacked' a federal employee, the correct course of action would be to pursue a case against him through the federal courts. Instead, it was all turned over to local police.

A curious act. The blog-writers' explanation is that if Watts did not 'attack' a federal employee and was found innocent in a federal court, those agents could seriously get in the shit. By passing it onto local police they lessen the potential blowback on themselves. Of course, if, as is claimed, Watts had attacked a federal employee in full sight of several border guards and CCTV, then there would be absolutely no reason not to pursue the case at federal level.

Any other explanations? It is it just that, even if the alleged assault took place, the incident is too small-fry to involve a federal case and was simply handed over to those who could process it as fast as possible?

The border guards have also refused to hand over CCTV footage in response to a freedom of information request from the Times Herald newspaper, claiming they're in the middle of handing it over to the courts.

And would anyone care to justify the confiscation of his computer?

In Israel they know how to treat laptops properly when people try to bring them into the country.

When confronted by a laptop you need to check for security purposes, do you 1) just ask the traveller - who is waiting patiently round the corner - for his password?

or

2) pull out a handgun and blow the reluctant PC away?

[Myshkin]

First in response to Watts' blog post, I think it's something of a jerk move to label those who don't believe him as morons who can't spell in a very passive-aggressive way.

It would be interesting to find out, but I'm not really, really interested. Just slightly interested.

Yeah, I don't really care much either, just a little curious.

Well speaking only from my experience in crossing the Canadian border, I was hassled by the Canadian border guards. This was before a passport was required, but it was due to be enacted soon. We were crossing from Detroit to Windsor via the tunnel, when exiting the guard approched and I gave him my Drivers Licsence. He got all like WTF is this? I asked for your ID. I reply thats the only ID I had. He replies that this just tells him I can drive, not come into Canada. He hassled me for a couple of minutes which I meekl listened to then he waved me through. On the way back into the US an Niagra Falls, I had no issue what so ever.

Just a little side story; two years ago when my brother and I drove down to Cabo San Lucas we kinda failed to get tourist visas. You see we usually fill out the paperwork and get all the stamps and whatnot at the checkpoint at Guerrero Negro, which is the border between Baja California and Baja California Sur, but when we got there the customs office was closed. Anyway when we got back to the US border about 10 days later the border agent was surprised and displeased that we couldn't produce visas. It was a bit of a hassle, but in the end he just waved us through with a disgusted look on his face.

The border guards have also refused to hand over CCTV footage in response to a freedom of information request from the Times Herald newspaper, claiming they're in the middle of handing it over to the courts.

Just want to point out that the article seems to say that the police refused informal request from the Times Herald, the Times Herald then filed a freedom of information request, to which the police still have five days to respond.

[Guest Raidne]

Wert, that seems perfectly plausible to me. I agree with your reasoning. Sorry we didn't mention that the border guys are feds before. But yeah, they have to be, given the nature of the job. And I, for one, do not believe that Watts threw a punch at them or anything like that.

[mormont]

What did he expect to happen?

If they detain the driver, they are certainly going to also detain the passengers.

Why?

[Guest Ro_]

Why?

They are not strangers and whatever one does, the other probably has knowledge of. Ex)smuggling, drugs, drug smuggling, drunk driving, sodomy, bestiality, no seatbelt, and speeding. I can't think of any instance where the passenger would be waved away if the driver was detained. Even if the driver was detained for a surly answer.

Traffic stops are a great way to find people who have warrants out for their arrest. In the theory that if one is a troublemaker, both are. Two birds, one stone. Double condom, etc.

[Myshkin]

Why?

Was the passenger also a Canadian citizen? If so perhaps they held him until they could transport him back to Canada. After an incident such as this they might have felt it was inappropriate to release the foreign national companion of the man they just arrested back onto US soil. But that's just speculation.

[Filippa Eilhart]

no seatbelt

in Poland (and i suspect, but am not sure, the same goes for the rest of the EU), each adult is responsible for their own seatbelt. I.e. if the passenger isn't wearing the seatbelt, the driver cannot be held responsible. The same other way round. Do you have different rules in the US?

[Guest Ro_]

in Poland (and i suspect, but am not sure, the same goes for the rest of the EU), each adult is responsible for their own seatbelt. I.e. if the passenger isn't wearing the seatbelt, the driver cannot be held responsible. The same other way round. Do you have different rules in the US?

Yes, it is held that the driver is the enforcer of the car and has the ability to refuse to operate the vehicle until everyone is properly and legally fastened. The driver is the one who is legally and fiscally responsible for any seat belt violations for all in the car.

[Filippa Eilhart]

that kinda sucks.

[mormont]

They are not strangers and whatever one does, the other probably has knowledge of. Ex)smuggling, drugs, drug smuggling, drunk driving, sodomy, bestiality, no seatbelt, and speeding. I can't think of any instance where the passenger would be waved away if the driver was detained. Even if the driver was detained for a surly answer.

Seems kinda flimsy to me. This wouldn't be the case in the UK, I believe. Again, might be a cultural difference but to arrest the passenger because the driver refused to co-operate? No. There would have to be a solid, separate reason to arrest the passenger in most circumstances. 'We arrested the driver so we decided we'd take everyone in' wouldn't wash.

in Poland (and i suspect, but am not sure, the same goes for the rest of the EU), each adult is responsible for their own seatbelt. I.e. if the passenger isn't wearing the seatbelt, the driver cannot be held responsible. The same other way round. Do you have different rules in the US?

In the UK too, the driver is responsible for enforcing the seatbelt rules - you'll get three points on your license if you drive without all passengers properly secured.

[BigFatCoward]

Seems kinda flimsy to me. This wouldn't be the case in the UK, I believe. Again, might be a cultural difference but to arrest the passenger because the driver refused to co-operate? No. There would have to be a solid, separate reason to arrest the passenger in most circumstances. 'We arrested the driver so we decided we'd take everyone in' wouldn't wash.

In the UK too, the driver is responsible for enforcing the seatbelt rules - you'll get three points on your license if you drive without all passengers properly secured.

1. no way, no how should this happen in the uk, but it depends on what they guards were actually detaining the driver for, if it was anything terrorism related then that would be different. because there would be a pretty good chance of a passenger having some prior knowledge of the act.

2. not exactly true, but close enough. it has to do with ages of passengers and ages of the vehicle and all sorts of other nonsense.

relating to the OP from what i have read about this case the author seems to be exactly the sort of argumentative dick who could have walked/driven away in 5 minutes if he'd kept his big mouth shut. this does obviously not excuse any unlawful violence which was done to his person.

[Filippa Eilhart]

In the UK too, the driver is responsible for enforcing the seatbelt rules - you'll get three points on your license if you drive without all passengers properly secured.

All websites I can find state that passengers over 14 are responsible for their own seatbelt in the UK.

[mormont]

I stand corrected. :) My own driving lessons were a long time ago, but I'd always been told that it was the driver's responsibility legally.

[Filippa Eilhart]

I seem to recall that particular rule had been different in Poland, too. It was changed before I got my licence, though. I think.

[Guest Ro_]

relating to the OP from what i have read about this case the author seems to be exactly the sort of argumentative dick who could have walked/driven away in 5 minutes if he'd kept his big mouth shut. this does obviously not excuse any unlawful violence which was done to his person.

I'd say Watts is exactly NOT the sort of argumentative dick who spouts off crap. He is extremely retiring.

Not to make excuses for him, especially since there isn't really a clear understanding of the situation, but driving from Canada to Nebraska, moving house for a friend, then driving from Nebraska to Canada would make me murderous. I think I'd be less then toadying to someone who detained me further.

[BigFatCoward]

I'd say Watts is exactly NOT the sort of argumentative dick who spouts off crap. He is extremely retiring.

Not to make excuses for him, especially since there isn't really a clear understanding of the situation, but driving from Canada to Nebraska, moving house for a friend, then driving from Nebraska to Canada would make me murderous. I think I'd be less then toadying to someone who detained me further.

do you know him? just wondering, cos the way i have read this situation (i'm not talking about his whole life here) it seems pretty clear even from his account that while he may not have done anything wrong, his behavior wasnt likely to endear him to the people he was dealing with.

[slim da reaper]

do you know him? just wondering, cos the way i have read this situation (i'm not talking about his whole life here) it seems pretty clear even from his account that while he may not have done anything wrong, his behavior wasnt likely to endear him to the people he was dealing with.

I think Ro said earlier she's a fan of his writing.

[Guest Ro_]

do you know him? just wondering, cos the way i have read this situation (i'm not talking about his whole life here) it seems pretty clear even from his account that while he may not have done anything wrong, his behavior wasnt likely to endear him to the people he was dealing with.

Do *you* know him? I have followed his writings, posts, and books for sometime. I am not of the insane persuasion that I *know* him, but I'd wager I have a better handle on his character than you.

[BigFatCoward]

I think Ro said earlier she's a fan of his writing.

It read to me like she knew him personally, obviously if she had first hand knowledge of his character i'd have given more credit to her opinion of him.

[BigFatCoward]

Do *you* know him? I have followed his writings, posts, and books for sometime. I am not of the insane persuasion that I *know* him, but I'd wager I have a better handle on his character than you.

Nope i dont know him, but i'd suggest that all the things you stated count for a total of zero when measuring his character in a confrontation situation. i was merely pointing out that the way he has described the incident, even with his bias on it, he doesnt come out as smelling of roses. it seems apparent to me that he was awkward and confrontational, in a situation where there was no upside to that behaviour. you yourself stated above that he would in all likelyhood be in a mood due to his travelling, so why can't you accept that maybe, just maybe he might have acted like a tool?