Homeschooling

[Datepalm]

What, its not either/or?

[El-ahrairah]

Yay! Need fear no more flying off-topic.

A little anecdote that recently happened to me: When I became a National Merit Semifinalist, we called up our local high school to see if we could get my name in the newspaper along with those of its students. Not only did they do that, but they invited me to a council meeting where they presented us all, along with the kids from the town's other high school. I think the reason they did so was that they only had one student for their school, while the other one had about six, and they didn't want to look paltry. So they "Adopted" me...

[AverageGuy]

Yay! Need fear no more flying off-topic.

A little anecdote that recently happened to me: When I became a National Merit Semifinalist, we called up our local high school to see if we could get my name in the newspaper along with those of its students. Not only did they do that, but they invited me to a council meeting where they presented us all, along with the kids from the town's other high school. I think the reason they did so was that they only had one student for their school, while the other one had about six, and they didn't want to look paltry. So they "Adopted" me...

Speaking of off-topic, could you actually become a finalist? I remember the school having to submit grades along with the essay, how does the grades part work with the homeschooling?

[Galactus]

I'm counting the pages until this derails into a Civil War thread, or abortion, or Israel-Palestine, or any of our other favourite topics.

[Shryke]

Neither.

Homeschooling is, by and large, a bastion of teaching your kids a bunch of Fundie Christian wackjobbery without the nasty influence of a real education system stopping you from doing so.

You don't want that kids mind getting perverted with ideas like "Science" and "Logic".

[El-ahrairah]

Speaking of off-topic, could you actually become a finalist? I remember the school having to submit grades along with the essay, how does the grades part work with the homeschooling?

I'll find out if I get it in the next few weeks (some 90% of semis get it, I believe)... They definitely seem to be homeschool-friendly: we got a cover letter tailored just for our situation.

[Galactus]

Homeschooling is a case of spoiled parents thinking they know best. Some governments apparently feel the need to indulge them. Which is not something that I'd lose any sleep over but I find it mildly distasteful.

[El-ahrairah]

I just thought of something: doesn't the idea that the State has the right to choose how its citizens are educated lead naturally to the idea that the State has the right to choose where its citizens work? It seems that military conscription and compulsory education appeared at around the same time...

[Errant Bard]

I always thought the real purpose of school was to teach how society works and help build one's own mind, by having those kids forced to interact with each others, authority figures who are not parents, ideas that are not common within family circle and so on. Homeschooling feels lacking, in this respect, though maybe it's the goal.

[Galactus]

I just thought of something: doesn't the idea that the State has the right to choose how its citizens are educated lead naturally to the idea that the State has the right to choose where its citizens work? It seems that military conscription and compulsory education appeared at around the same time...

Yes, both are intimately connected to democracy, btw.

[BLU-RAY]

Yes, both are intimately connected to democracy, btw.

Assuming you're making an argument here, I don't think you're taking quite the correct argumentative tack vis-a-vis somebody who seems to believe in the divine right of kings...

[Alexia]

It seems that military conscription and compulsory education appeared at around the same time...

:huh: :huh: :huh:

I'm no expert on military history but I thought that military conscription was pretty much the name of the game historically - young, healthy male, you're off to war whether you like it or not! I need spearmen/bowmen/etc.!

Compulsory education is not that old in comparison. I'm guessing late 1800s/early 1900s for the United States?

[Eponine]

Of course, my experience has been of fundamentalist nutjobs.

However... I've always thought if I had complete control of a child's education, from birth onward, and had all day every day to be teaching that child and preparing lessons and activities, that I could do a much better job of education than any school.

But this attitude also gives me some insight as to why some parents can get caught up in the idea that homeschooling would be great, even when big red flags are staring them in the face. It's easy to imagine that my level of education would be easy to transmit, and that the child would be a quick and enthusiastic learner. We'd have so much fun studying ring theory and learning Latin and reading Ulysses, right? If I had some real ideological leanings toward homeschooling, it would be easy to convince myself that it would work out to be a stunning success.

In reality, I don't like teaching, and I'm fairly mediocre at it. I don't understand what it's like to be a slow learner, I'm not trained to teach to different learning types, and I'm not all that patient. If my kid were dumb or just uninterested, I wouldn't know what to do. And in the real lives of parents, non-educational tasks with the child and other things that come up in life can take so much time and effort that little energy is left for teaching.

In addition, even if my child was smart and my teaching was great, why in the world would I want a child who could go to college at 12? Maybe having an intellectually intense education at an early age would result in a brilliant and inquisitive adult... but I think it's just as likely that one would grow up feeling isolated from one's peers, burnt out, and emo. Having a child be perfectly stable and socialized, in addition to getting a great education is not something I think that most parents can do on their own. With the trade-offs involved, I'd opt for normally socialized while making sure that there were advanced classes and after-school activities for the child's main talents and interests. Besides, while I wasn't homeschooled, my mother was a SAHM and I was an only child, and I felt like she was hovering all the freaking time. Why I would want to do that to a child?

I knew a PhD student in math whose parents homeschooled him because public schools were too conservative and pandered too much to Christians for them. He seemed like a pretty well-adjusted guy, and I'm more sympathetic to this POV... however, in general I guess I'd still feel that it's indoctrinating your kid to your one belief system.

[Jon AS]

I just thought of something: doesn't the idea that the State has the right to choose how its citizens are educated lead naturally to the idea that the State has the right to choose where its citizens work? It seems that military conscription and compulsory education appeared at around the same time...

Modern conscription was "invented" by the French during the Revolution.

The oldest laws for compulsory education in Europe date from 1592, so yeah, they came about at approximately the same time.

[El-ahrairah]

:huh: :huh: :huh:

I'm no expert on military history but I thought that military conscription was pretty much the name of the game historically - young, healthy male, you're off to war whether you like it or not! I need spearmen/bowmen/etc.!

Compulsory education is not that old in comparison. I'm guessing late 1800s/early 1900s for the United States?

Obviously the idea has been around forever, but I mean a universal draft - which I believe first started in the French Revolution.

[Lian]

It depends on the education system available, and the kind of education the parents have.

My father once told me of a case of a homeless man that lived with his daughter in a cave with some encyclopedias. When the authorities came down on them, the girl was sixteen, and covered pretty much all high school material. They had nothing to do but pack her off to college. I doubt she would have done better in the local public school.

Then again, this is an unusual case.

[Datepalm]

I'm counting the pages until this derails into a Civil War thread, or abortion, or Israel-Palestine, or any of our other favourite topics.

Your pessimism is clearly the product of some pinko commie cater-to-the-slowest, harrison bergeronian public education indoctrination system.

Obviously the idea has been around forever, but I mean a universal draft - which I believe first started in the French Revolution.

I see the logic there, actually. Unsuprsingly, I love the universal draft. Its an integral part of a states internal solidarity and of a citizens responsibility to and for their country, while an education system is the states responsibility to its citizens.

[Galactus]

Assuming you're making an argument here, I don't think you're taking quite the correct argumentative tack vis-a-vis somebody who seems to believe in the divine right of kings...

Not so much an argument as stating a fact :P

I see the logic there, actually. Unsuprsingly, I love the universal draft. Its an integral part of a states internal solidarity and of a citizens responsibility to and for their country, while an education system is the states responsibility to its citizens.

Heh, even I like the idea (I wasn't drafted though, medical exemption)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Datepalm,

What is your opinion on "Harrison Bergerion"? Vonnegate tilting at strawmen?

[Jon AS]

Heh, even I like the idea (I wasn't drafted though, medical exemption)

I like the idea as well (particularly since I've already done my time :P) especially if combined with an option for civil service. Yeah, yeah, it's not technically an "option" in Germany, but that's what it amounts to. Now we just need to make it universal.