MMA 2010: Why Always the Fighting?

[Ser Barry]

Typical fucking MMA fans, you get an amazingly entertaining card with every single fighter going balls out for a win and you still fucking moan! Lesnar is still shit. Carwin has no gas. Leben is sloppy. Go fuck yourselves. Get punched in the face just once and see how good your gas tank is and how crisp your jits remains.

Lesnar shows us he has huge balls, recovery from his chin being wobbled, a big step up in top game positioning (although whether his lack of pulling guard on Carwin was due to being hurt is up for question) and he took down someone his own size. Huge performance from Lesnar. Carwin was one punch away from winning for about three minutes, huge performance from him.

Great fight. Great card full of effort, skill and courage.

Next person who moans on ths thread has to fight me*

*Unless it is Stego, then we have to belly barge each other.

Some people are just never fucking happy.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

To the brilliant mind who called Carwin a 'fucking joke:'

Have you ever weighed 280? Have you ever wrestled a man who weighed over 250lbs? Arms with muscle on them take energy to move. He was a refs decision (that half of the UFC refs would have made) away from the undisputed heavyweight championship. He's hardly a fucking joke.

There was barely any wrestling in the first round, it was mostly Carwin kneeling on Lesnar and punching his face in. Which is also tiring, so I take back the 'fucking joke' comment to some extent, but I still find it laughable that a supposed top fighter should gas after one round of dominance.

The saving grace for Carwin is the fact that he's never been out of the first round, so I'll just put it down to inexperience for now.

It was definitely an amazing card btw, had a lot of fun.

[Renasko]

Yeah, don't hate on Carwin. Dude took it to Lesnar something awful, which takes balls. Lots of energy/emotion spent in that first round. Unfortunate Lesnar got him to tap, but he'll come back and have another go at it, I hope.

I didn't see all of the matches on card last night, so I'm playing catch-up today. :box:

[Ken Stone]

Typical fucking MMA fans, you get an amazingly entertaining card with every single fighter going balls out for a win and you still fucking moan! Lesnar is still shit. Carwin has no gas. Leben is sloppy. Go fuck yourselves. Get punched in the face just once and see how good your gas tank is and how crisp your jits remains.

Really? You're going there? If I'm not a fighter I'm not allowed to criticize a fighter? I agree it was an entertaining card, but that doesn't mean we aren't allowed to discuss sloppy stuff that happened. Hell, sometimes sloppy stuff is more entertaining. It's still sloppy and open for discussion.

Get punched in the face just once and see how good your gas tank is and how crisp your jits remains.

I feel like I've seen plenty of fighters get punched in the face and retain their skills and gas. When you talk about a fighter having no gas it isn't in comparison to me. It's in comparison to other fighters.

[Ser Barry]

If the jist of the posts had been that it was a good card with the fighters making some mistakes then maybe you would be coming from somewhere stable. The posts were just people bitching. Again. It is boring, insulting to the fighters and ignorant. My point was serious, if anyone is unable to grasp why Leben was 'sloppy' after thirteen minutes of frenetic fighting then the quickest way to educate yourself is to go and get punched in the face. Even better get punched in the face twenty times and then try and tie your laces. That should be easy right? Then try and do it with someone else trying to stop you tying them. Taking a thirty second segment out of a fight that vicious and moaning about it is idiocy and shows that the person making the comment has zero understanding of the sport. If course the Internet was invented to allow people to advertise their ignorance but I equally reserve my right to call them out on it.

Here's another scenario. Take something that you want. Really badly want. Something you have truly dedicated your whole life to achieving for years. Let's throw in that you haven't seen your family for the last two months because you have been trying to get this thing and also that you regularly give up two months of time with your kids in pursuit of this goal. Then say you are so close to this goal that all you have to do is hit a man in the head as hard as you can (a big strong man who is trying to stop you) just once and it is yours. So you hit him. Not quite right. So you hit him as hard as you can again. Let's say you are one punch away for four minutes all the time trying as hard as you possibly can to get it right. Reckon you might be have a right to be tired after all that? Reckon anyone would be? I will liken it to an Olympics 10000m race as that is around 25 minutes. Now we will make it a knockout format. If anyone gets 50m ahead of everyone else then they automatically get gold at any point in the race. If you fall 50m behind then you are out. How bouncy do you reckon those folks will be after 2000m of constantly covering sprints from the bunch? Carwin went for broke, he sprinted from the blocks and gave it a shot. Maybe he would do it differently next time but I praise him for giving it a go.

To see a fighter who wad still thinking and able to pull off a sub after the intensity of the Leben fight and to see Carwin give it everything to achieve his dream was inspirational. To see them criticised for it makes me pity the so called fans who are doing so.

[Ken Stone]

If the jist of the posts had been that it was a good card with the fighters making some mistakes then maybe you would be coming from somewhere stable. The posts were just people bitching. Again. It is boring, insulting to the fighters and ignorant. My point was serious, if anyone is unable to grasp why Leben was 'sloppy' after thirteen minutes of frenetic fighting then the quickest way to educate yourself is to go and get punched in the face. Even better get punched in the face twenty times and then try and tie your laces. That should be easy right? Then try and do it with someone else trying to stop you tying them. Taking a thirty second segment out of a fight that vicious and moaning about it is idiocy and shows that the person making the comment has zero understanding of the sport. If course the Internet was invented to allow people to advertise their ignorance but I equally reserve my right to call them out on it.

Here's another scenario. Take something that you want. Really badly want. Something you have truly dedicated your whole life to achieving for years. Let's throw in that you haven't seen your family for the last two months because you have been trying to get this thing and also that you regularly give up two months of time with your kids in pursuit of this goal. Then say you are so close to this goal that all you have to do is hit a man in the head as hard as you can (a big strong man who is trying to stop you) just once and it is yours. So you hit him. Not quite right. So you hit him as hard as you can again. Let's say you are one punch away for four minutes all the time trying as hard as you possibly can to get it right. Reckon you might be have a right to be tired after all that? Reckon anyone would be? I will liken it to an Olympics 10000m race as that is around 25 minutes. Now we will make it a knockout format. If anyone gets 50m ahead of everyone else then they automatically get gold at any point in the race. If you fall 50m behind then you are out. How bouncy do you reckon those folks will be after 2000m of constantly covering sprints from the bunch? Carwin went for broke, he sprinted from the blocks and gave it a shot. Maybe he would do it differently next time but I praise him for giving it a go.

To see a fighter who wad still thinking and able to pull off a sub after the intensity of the Leben fight and to see Carwin give it everything to achieve his dream was inspirational. To see them criticised for it makes me pity the so called fans who are doing so.

Once again you make the mistake of confusing me with a pro fighter. Could I pull off a slick sub after getting punched in the face bunch of times? Of course not. That's why I write software for a living, instead of getting punched in the face and pulling off subs afterwards, like a pro fighter. Get it? Here's the deal. It may be difficult to pull a sub while getting punched, but I know it's possible. You know how I know that? BECAUSE IT HAPPENS MULTIPLE TIMES EVERY FIGHT CARD!!!!

It wasn't just Lebans triangle that was sloppy. He went for multiple armbars that looked good as locked up, and sort of gave up on them for no apparent reason. To be fair Leban went from being the guy on the Ultimate Fighter who bitched about Kos laying on him, to having an almost servicable grappling game. That's a huge improvement and possibly bodes well for him.

As for Carwin, the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get. When was the last time you saw a fighter in a Championship fight take a 10-8 round, and then give up? If you watch the fight with no context then it is easy to say "Well he blew all his energy, of course he gave up, completely understandable". If you watch it in the context of other fighters in other Championship fights being able to take a 10-8 round and keep fighting, it becomes less forgivable.

[Stego]

As for Carwin, the more I think about it, the more disappointed I get. When was the last time you saw a fighter in a Championship fight take a 10-8 round, and then give up? If you watch the fight with no context then it is easy to say "Well he blew all his energy, of course he gave up, completely understandable". If you watch it in the context of other fighters in other Championship fights being able to take a 10-8 round and keep fighting, it becomes less forgivable.

This is way too judgmental, man. You have no idea what was going on in his body. He says he was not gassed; that he had an adrenaline dump. Based on what we saw, it's absurd not to believe him.

What this is is a surge of both dopamine and norepinephrine simultaneously. Your coordination is decreased. Your bronchial tubes dilate. (If you have bronchitis like Carwin apparently has, this is not a good thing.) Some people lose the physical ability to even pull a trigger in combat.

After this sort of dump, your mind is foggy. Your brain activity is decreased. Your motor skills are gone.

[Ken Stone]

This is way too judgmental, man. You have no idea what was going on in his body. He says he was not gassed; that he had an adrenaline dump. Based on what we saw, it's absurd not to believe him.

What this is is a surge of both dopamine and norepinephrine simultaneously. Your coordination is decreased. Your bronchial tubes dilate. (If you have bronchitis like Carwin apparently has, this is not a good thing.) Some people lose the physical ability to even pull a trigger in combat.

After this sort of dump, your mind is foggy. Your brain activity is decreased. Your motor skills are gone.

I hadn't heard that Carwin had bronchitis. If that's the case then it is surprising he did as well as he did.

[Ser Barry]

Ken I am not confusing you for a fighter. I also couldn't possibly confuse you for anyone who knows shit about fighting. You know that retard who talks loudly and incorrectly all the way during a sports match? That is you right now.

[Ken Stone]

Ken I am not confusing you for a fighter. I also couldn't possibly confuse you for anyone who knows shit about fighting. You know that retard who talks loudly and incorrectly all the way during a sports match? That is you right now.

okay tough guy.

[Stego]

Ken I am not confusing you for a fighter. I also couldn't possibly confuse you for anyone who knows shit about fighting. You know that retard who talks loudly and incorrectly all the way during a sports match? That is you right now.

You're going too far.

[Commodore]

.

You have to admit Stego, there's something endearing about such an unaccomplished, delusional fighter talking so much shit, so well. It will make the fall that much more entertaining.

[Stego]

This is what I remember of Sonnen. Him crying like a bitch.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

I think Sonnen is just hyping the fight though, I have no problem with that. This is his big break, the more people he can get interested in his fight the better for him financially. He's getting subbed anyway.

On the talking shit about fighters issue, discussing weaknesses in their game doesn't = disrespect, nor do you have to be part of the fight game itself to enter into discussion. That said, always bow to the opinion of someone who has fought. My knowledge of wrestling and BJJ is very poor, the only aspect I feel comfortable discussing is stand up, since I have spent time at a boxing gym and its something I'm really interested in technically. Thats why I was critical of guys like Lesnar and Carwin (I guess Leben was also pretty sloppy but he's always been like that, so it doesn't need to be said), the holes in their game stick out like a sore thumb, at least to me.

[Ser Barry]

David Haye reckons that after five minutes grappling training his boxing turns to shit. I have no idea why stand up is generally technically poor in MMA but I respect his opinion on it.

To clear up, I have no problem with criticising fighters. I was amazed that from that card all people commented on were negatives. It contained great fighting performances all around. MMA is not an art, it is dirty, bloody, sweaty and hard. Aesthetics rarely come in to it. I appreciate athletes who come to fight. We had a hatful of them on Saturday.

I am sorry Ken.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Agreed mate, that card was definitely all heart imo.

[Ken Stone]

David Haye reckons that after five minutes grappling training his boxing turns to shit. I have no idea why stand up is generally technically poor in MMA but I respect his opinion on it.

To clear up, I have no problem with criticising fighters. I was amazed that from that card all people commented on were negatives. It contained great fighting performances all around. MMA is not an art, it is dirty, bloody, sweaty and hard. Aesthetics rarely come in to it. I appreciate athletes who come to fight. We had a hatful of them on Saturday.

I am sorry Ken.

No problem. What I like about this forum, as opposed to others that discuss MMA, is that it general remains civil (except when GSP and Penn fight). You ever meet me face to face and want to call me a retard, then do it. It's bad form to do it over the internet.

And I agree that it was (surprisingly) an exceptional card all around. While the main event was exciting as all get out, if you were pulling for a Carwin victory, it wasn't the size of Lesnars nuts that you walked away marveling over. Instead you left marveling over how an elite athlete could take a solid 10-8 round, then give up the fight. It's like watching your favorite baseball team get up by 10 runs in the first inning, and then give up 11 in the ninth to lose the game.

[Analu]

I had money on Lesnar (-140 odds were too good to pass up), but I admit I was going crazy when Carwin caught him with that uppercut and had Brock literally running away from him as fast as he could. It was awesome. What's funny about that fight is one of my cousins kept going on and on about how Carwin wouldn't gas out cuz he trains in Colorado in that high altitude. The look on his face in R2 was priceless.

Leben actually has a pretty good ground game, he just never uses it and chooses to stand and bang. Kinda like Wanderlei. Seeing him pull that submission was crazy. I know some guys who train at his school and while they say he's a great teacher, they also say he's not very good to have as your cornerman, cuz all he ever does is tell them "Just go right at them and knock em out!" lol

As for getting in the gym and doing some sparring, whether it's boxing or grappling or whatever, I had kinda assumed that every MMA fan did something or the other at some point in time. If you haven't, you really should. It's a good workout (way more fun than running mindlessly on a treadmill or whatever) and you'll get a much better appreciation of the fights when you watch them. Anyways, just my two cents on that.

Damn good card, overall. Them throwing in that Grove vs Reljic fight at the end was nice. That was one of the greatest upkicks I've ever seen.

[Renasko]

I had money on Lesnar (-140 odds were too good to pass up), but I admit I was going crazy when Carwin caught him with that uppercut and had Brock literally running away from him as fast as he could. It was awesome. What's funny about that fight is one of my cousins kept going on and on about how Carwin wouldn't gas out cuz he trains in Colorado in that high altitude. The look on his face in R2 was priceless.

:lol: Damn, Carwin must've spent more time staring at the mountains and sitting on his ass than working out.

(I kid)

I know some guys who train at his school and while they say he's a great teacher, they also say he's not very good to have as your cornerman, cuz all he ever does is tell them "Just go right at them and knock em out!" lol

What age level is this? If it's just kids, I'd say it's good advice. Simplicity.

As for getting in the gym and doing some sparring, whether it's boxing or grappling or whatever, I had kinda assumed that every MMA fan did something or the other at some point in time. If you haven't, you really should. It's a good workout (way more fun than running mindlessly on a treadmill or whatever) and you'll get a much better appreciation of the fights when you watch them. Anyways, just my two cents on that.

I've considered doing some MMA training myself (ignoring the reaction my girl gets every time I mention it), but would consider hitting the treadmill and the like for a good month or so, first, to raise my cardio levels primarily. Surely it'd be best to be at a high energy peak before taking on such onerous training?

Damn good card, overall. Them throwing in that Grove vs Reljic fight at the end was nice. That was one of the greatest upkicks I've ever seen.

True dat.

[Ken Stone]

As for getting in the gym and doing some sparring, whether it's boxing or grappling or whatever, I had kinda assumed that every MMA fan did something or the other at some point in time. If you haven't, you really should. It's a good workout (way more fun than running mindlessly on a treadmill or whatever) and you'll get a much better appreciation of the fights when you watch them. Anyways, just my two cents on that.

I did Judo for a couple years in college so I always get a bit giddy when guys break out some high level hip throws and trips. Unfortunately since Judo is evolved with a gi the vast majority of techniques don't translate very well to MMA.