Bay Area students wear Stars-&-Stripes to class

[El-ahrairah]

Context is important. These boys wore those shirts for no other reason than to be offensive. I'm not saying they should have been made to remove them, what I am saying is that we should not allow them to hide their racism behind false patriotism.

Cinco de Mayo is a holiday of one particular ethnic group in the U.S. - and one not even celebrated in Mexico, I believe. What earthly reason have Mexicans, or anyone else, to demand that because of their day all other nations must stick their noses under a rock and pretend they don't exist? Should the American flag also be banned on St. George's Day, St. Patrick's Day, or May Day? Should we ban the "Union Flag" on Lee's Birthday because it's offensive towards Confederates?

I simply cannot believe anyone is seriously offended by this.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Are the kids genuinely being patriotic? Do they wear these shirts on a regular basis? Why did they pick this day to do so? Did they wear them on the day before Thanksgiving? How about St. Patrick's Day? Why the anniversary of a Pueblan holiday? Cinco de Mayo has limited recognition nationwide in Mexico, as I understand it, but it's celebrated in the US as "a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride". Is that enough reason?

Can the kids wear the shirts as a protest? Sure, though I'd still ask a protest of -what-? A celebration of heritage?

[Arbor Gold]

but it's celebrated in the US as "a celebration of Mexican heritage and pride".

Mostly it's just a day for white people to drink tequila.

[BLU-RAY]

Cinco de Mayo is a holiday of one particular ethnic group in the U.S. - and one not even celebrated in Mexico, I believe. What earthly reason have Mexicans, or anyone else, to demand that because of their day all other nations must stick their noses under a rock and pretend they don't exist? Should the American flag also be banned on St. George's Day, St. Patrick's Day, or May Day? Should we ban the "Union Flag" on Lee's Birthday because it's offensive towards Confederates?

I simply cannot believe anyone is seriously offended by this.

This is a lot more like you or RhaegarTar wearing orange on St. Patrick's day, so, surprise, surprise, you can't believe anyone's offended.

The school shouldn't have punished the kids, that's asinine, but I do hope they receive the scorn of their peers.

[Myshkin]

Another loss for freedom of speech.

Major fail on freedom of speech. As somebody else said, they're Mexican Americans, the American flag shouldn't be offensive to them.

This is not a freedom of speech issue. This is a school. I can't be arrested for telling my neighbor to go fuck himself, but a kid at school can damn well be suspended for telling his teacher to go fuck himself.

Wearing t-shirts is a non-violent form of protest.

Is that no longer acceptable?

Again, this is a school, not a public rally. Schools have the right to suspend students for how the act or what they say. If you drop the n-bomb at work you're not gonna be arrested, but you may well get fired. It is NOT a freedom of speech issue.

I don't think the issue is that they find American flag to be offensive, in general.

Rather, they probably find the attempt of the 5 boys to make a political statement using the American Flag to be offensive.

This.

I don't even neccessarily think the students were being racists. They WERE being provocative douchebags though.

I do think they were being racist. Somehow I doubt these kids got together and decided to use the American flag to make this statement on St. Patrick's Day.

And this is a school. Freedom of Speech does not apply.

This.

[Rhaegon Targaryen]

I was in New York for St. Patricks day this year, lots of Irish Flags, green, shamrocks, etc and many, many American flags. Can't see how anyone in America, could feel disrespected by an American flag, no matter the day. The school should have just ignored this instead of making it an issue. Now it can only escalate.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

This is not a freedom of speech issue. This is a school. I can't be arrested for telling my neighbor to go fuck himself, but a kid at school can damn well be suspended for telling his teacher to go fuck himself.

The kid could be suspended for telling his teacher that every day. If those kids had all worn their t-shirts next friday, they would not have been in trouble. This is a deliberate attempt to appease a specific ethnic group by censoring a political opinion. This is not acceptable in any forum, school or otherwise.

[Myshkin]

Cinco de Mayo is a holiday of one particular ethnic group in the U.S. - and one not even celebrated in Mexico, I believe. What earthly reason have Mexicans, or anyone else, to demand that because of their day all other nations must stick their noses under a rock and pretend they don't exist? Should the American flag also be banned on St. George's Day, St. Patrick's Day, or May Day? Should we ban the "Union Flag" on Lee's Birthday because it's offensive towards Confederates?

I simply cannot believe anyone is seriously offended by this.

First of all Cinco de Mayo is indeed celebrated in Mexico (I grew up in Mexico, so I have seen the proof). It is not a large holiday, nor is Mexican independence day as many people believe, but it is celebrated. Secondly, Cinco de Mayo has taken on more meaning for people of Mexican heritage living outside of Mexico. As has been pointed out it has become a day to celebrate Mexican heritage. Is it wrong for Americans of Mexican descent to celebrate their heritage? If so, then I suppose it is wrong for Americans of Irish descent to celebrate their Irish heritage on St. Patrick's Day. Furthemore, nobody is saying the American flag is offensive or should be banned on Cinco de Mayo; what we are saying is that if you use the American flag to make a racist statement expect to get called out for it. Again, I doubt these kids decided to make this same statement on St. Patrick's day. Ask yourself why that is.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

The kid could be suspended for telling his teacher that every day. If those kids had all worn their t-shirts next friday, they would not have been in trouble. This is a deliberate attempt to appease a specific ethnic group by censoring a political opinion. This is not acceptable in any forum, school or otherwise.

I suppose the possibility that the minority students didn't like being intimidated by the majority Mexicans wasn't considered when the school decided to endorse a holiday centered on ethnic solidarity.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

TP,

I don't think the issue is that they find American flag to be offensive, in general.

Rather, they probably find the attempt of the 5 boys to make a political statement using the American Flag to be offensive.

You do realize the 1st amendment is there primarily to protect political speech? Although I will freely acknowledge the Supreme Court has decided schools have a limited power to restrict political speech on their grounds.

[Galactus]

I do think they were being racist. Somehow I doubt these kids got together and decided to use the American flag to make this statement on St. Patrick's Day.

My point is that, kids being kids, chances are good they did it just to cause trouble/stir up a reaction.

[Lady Blackfish]

I don't think any action should have been taken on the school's part, honestly, even though I would bet my last dollar that they indeed were trying to be provocative. This kind of gives them just the reaction they wanted, and it's one of those things for which there just won't be any solid proof.

[baxus]

I think that'll depend on their policies on things like gang signs and hate speech, and then on whether the school board can successfully argue that these students have violated these policies.

i know that actions of american government have been questionable at times, but one could hardly call an american flag a gang sign :D

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

I suppose the possibility that the minority students didn't like being intimidated by the majority Mexicans wasn't considered when the school decided to endorse a holiday centered on ethnic solidarity.

Do you have citations for those demographics? I well realise that high school populations don't always reflect the city or area as a whole, but the Morgan Hill website says that the area is ~70% not Hispanic or Latino (est. 2008). Of the other ~30%, 82% are Mexican, making ~25% of the total population Mexican Hispanic/Latin@. To "confuse" things further, 36% of those Hispanic or Latin@ are White.

In any case, even if the population is majority Mexican, I'm not sure you can argue for -not- recognising this example of solidarity unless the school also doesn't recognise any other.

[Galactus]

i know that actions of american government have been questionable at times, but one could hardly call an american flag a gang sign :D

Five people wearing similar t-shirts and identical bandannas?

[Bronn Stone]

Students rights to free speech do NOT end just because they are on a school campus.

Limits can be applied if and only if they are reasonable and necessary in a school environment.

Morse v. Frederick Chief Justice Roberts'] Our cases make clear that students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School Dist., 393 U. S. 503, 506 (1969). At the same time, we have held that "the constitutional rights of students in public school are not automatically coextensive with the rights of adults in other settings," Bethel School Dist. No. 403 v. Fraser, 478 U. S. 675, 682 (1986), and that the rights of students "must be 'applied in light of the special characteristics of the school environment.' " Hazelwood School Dist. v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U. S. 260, 266 (1988). Consistent with these principles, we hold that schools may take steps to safeguard those entrusted to their care from speech that can reasonably be regarded as encouraging illegal drug use. We conclude that the school officials in this case did not violate the First Amendment by confiscating the pro-drug banner and suspending the student responsible for it.

Interesting aside - reading the opinion on Morse suggests that while a banner reading "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" was not protected, one reading "Legalize Marijuana For Teens" probably would be.

Back to Morgan Hill. One of the standards a school may use (which would not apply in the regular adult world) is that otherwise protected speech can be limited if it is likely to lead to fights. And in this case, it very well could have. The school district is not backing the decision, but it probably was not an unconstitutional deprivation of the rights of the students to wear the flag.

[Tempra]

If there is a reasonably predictable likelihood (not just a bare conjecture) that speech or expressive conduct will cause substantial disruption — which is not clear under these facts — then the school may legally restrict it without violating the First Amendment. That’s the holding of Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Community School Dist. (1969). (I speak here only of whether the district may legally do this, not whether it should.)

But California Education Code § 48950 deliberately gives students more protection than the First Amendment does. And the high school’s actions, if they were reported accurately, would violate that statute:

(a) School districts operating one or more high schools ... shall not make or enforce a rule subjecting a high school pupil to disciplinary sanctions solely on the basis of conduct that is speech or other communication that, when engaged in outside of the campus, is protected from governmental restriction by the First Amendment ....

(B) A pupil who is enrolled in a school at the time that the school has made or enforced a rule in violation of subdivision (a) may commence a civil action to obtain appropriate injunctive and declaratory relief as determined by the court. Upon motion, a court may award attorney’s fees to a prevailing plaintiff in a civil action pursuant to this section....

(d) This section does not prohibit the imposition of discipline for harassment, threats, or intimidation, unless constitutionally protected....

(f) The Legislature finds and declares that free speech rights are subject to reasonable time, place, and manner regulations.

The “time, place, and manner regulations” restriction doesn’t apply here, because the restriction here was justified with reference to the content of the expression (and the supposed harm that it might cause). Time, place, and manner regulations must be unrelated to content, and focused instead on matters such as noise, blockage of hallways, and other effects of speech that don’t stem from the message that the speech communicates.

This seems like an easy case to win...

http://volokh.com/2010/05/06/california-high-school-sends-kids-home-for-wearing-american-flag-on-cinco-de-mayo/

[TerraPrime]

Re: Ser Scot

You do realize the 1st amendment is there primarily to protect political speech? Although I will freely acknowledge the Supreme Court has decided schools have a limited power to restrict political speech on their grounds.

I do.

Maybe that's why I haven't endorsed the school's reaction? :idea:

My comment was directed at other people's comment on how the students who took offense to the actions of these 5 students "hate the American flag."

Re: Everyone

If you just "can't understand" why the Mexican-American students might find the action provocative and offensive, then perhaps you can imagine a gentile being invited to a Rosh Hashana celebration bringing a rack of BBQ ribs to the host's party? Or perhaps someone waving the Japanese colonial flag during a Chinese celebration of ending the WWII conflict?

It is insensitive, reactionary, and disrespectful, even if BBQ ribs and the Japanese flag are not, per se, offensive.

Let us not forget that this is not a case of genuine mistake, where the 5 students simply grabbed a t-shirt and it happened to have the American flag on it. It's a case where they wanted to make a statement (and few people here have really wanted to say what that statement is outright, other than mislabeling as patriotism).

[El-ahrairah]

First of all Cinco de Mayo is indeed celebrated in Mexico (I grew up in Mexico, so I have seen the proof). It is not a large holiday, nor is Mexican independence day as many people believe, but it is celebrated. Secondly, Cinco de Mayo has taken on more meaning for people of Mexican heritage living outside of Mexico. As has been pointed out it has become a day to celebrate Mexican heritage. Is it wrong for Americans of Mexican descent to celebrate their heritage? If so, then I suppose it is wrong for Americans of Irish descent to celebrate their Irish heritage on St. Patrick's Day. Furthemore, nobody is saying the American flag is offensive or should be banned on Cinco de Mayo; what we are saying is that if you use the American flag to make a racist statement expect to get called out for it. Again, I doubt these kids decided to make this same statement on St. Patrick's day. Ask yourself why that is.

Of course it's not wrong for them to celebrate their holiday. I wish them all the best. But I don't understand how wearing an American flag is a "racist statement".

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

In any case, even if the population is majority Mexican, I'm not sure you can argue for -not- recognising this example of solidarity unless the school also doesn't recognise any other.

I think its pretty clear that the students wearing the t-shirts were making a statement. As were the students celebrating Cinco de Mayo incidentally.

Whether they were trying to provoke something is a different question. And it really can't be argued that an American flag could normally be considered a provocation. They are commonly seen on St. Patrick's Day, Columbus Day, marches by African-Americans, and in rallies by Americans of Cuban heritage. Wearing or carrying an American flag at any of those wouldn't provoke any one.

If such a flag would be considered provocative to someone celebrating Cinco de Mayo, then I'd suggest there is something about Cinco de Mayo that is a bit different from more innocuous celebrations of ethnicity.