Bay Area students wear Stars-&-Stripes to class

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

So let me get this straight, urinators. You're trying to tell me that a bunch of white students in a border state with the largest Hispanic population of any state dressing up in American flag attire on Cinco de Mayo in the middle of the largest and most contentious debate over Mexican immigration in living memory was either:

a] Coincidence

b] A spontaneous celebration of American patriotism

c] Nothing at all to do with the fact that right now this country is in the middle of the largest and most contentious debate over Mexican immigration in living memory, at a time when many white Americans are feeling anxious that "their" America is being taken away by the rising tides of blacks and browns and yellows?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've stated pretty clearly that I think those students were definitely making an intentional statement on Cinco de Mayo, and that it wasn't just coincidence. But anyone who thinks this is something that is a new issue that is occuring now just because of the Arizona law is fooling themselves.

What I don't accept is the idea that such a statement is inherently racist rather than anti-irridentist. Read the link above about the Mexican-American girl who was screamed at because she brought an American flag to a rally. Was she racist too?

[Paddy]

What we have here are five teens acting out to thumb their noses at authority. Teens have been doing this forever, probably. To accuse them of being racist just diminshes an already terribly watered down charge

Would you agree that there's a racial element to what they did? If not, then in what way are they thumbing their noses at authority?

[Namorath]

one of the students was half mexican so i doubt he was being racist

cinco de mayo is a celebration of mexican culture in america and thats fine but it is and always will be the united states of america where free speech and pride in oneself for any reason should be allowed (even if it can be deemed offensive)

if you want the right to celebrate your heritage, you cant restrict someone else's freedom to do the same thing no matter what day it is

also showing pride in where you came from and showing pride on where you are now is not mutually exclusive, both can and should be celebrated ... i never forgotten my german/irish roots even though im a proud canadian

[Tempra]

one of the students was half mexican so i doubt he was being racist

cinco de mayo is a celebration of mexican culture in america and thats fine but it is and always will be the united states of america where free speech and pride in oneself for any reason should be allowed (even if it can be deemed offensive)

if you want the right to celebrate your heritage, you cant restrict someone else's freedom to do the same thing no matter what day it is

also showing pride in where you came from and showing pride on where you are now is not mutually exclusive, both can and should be celebrated ... i never forgotten my german/irish roots even though im a proud canadian

What a poor soul. The oppressive majority culture has taught him to hate the country of his ancestors. :rofl:

[TheKassi]

I am sorry, but this is getting silly. In what way is wearing a symbol of your government thumbing your nose at authority? The hyperbole is getting thick enough to cut. These boys didn't yell racial slurs. These boys didn't tell Mexican Americans to go back home. They didn't get in anyone's face. They didn't wear anything provocative. Wearing a symbol of the government on government land that flies that very symbol in front is about as far from provocative as one can get.

It is closer to conformist.

These boys were busted sitting at a table on government land eating brunch and wearing a symbol of their government. One might as well claim that drinking skim milk is a form of hate speech targeting the obese.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I am sorry, but this is getting silly. In what way is wearing a symbol of your government thumbing your nose at authority? The hyperbole is getting thick enough to cut. These boys didn't yell racial slurs. These boys didn't tell Mexican Americans to go back home. They didn't get in anyone's face. They didn't wear anything provocative. Wearing a symbol of the government on government land that flies that very symbol in front is about as far from provocative as one can get.

If an action something like that does end up provoking a negative response, the real problem is the people overreacting, not the person wearing the shirt.

[TerraPrime]

Obtuseness.

This thread has it.

[mcbigski]

Would you agree that there's a racial element to what they did? If not, then in what way are they thumbing their noses at authority?

No element of racial animus. Both Mexico and the US are racially diverse political entities, they just have different proportions of Euro, Afro, and Native American populations. There are plenty of white Mexicans, and plenty of brown Americans. It's entirely possible to note they are different political entities without assuming racism.

Publicly educated US teenagers have been indoctrinated to show 'sensitivity' and deference to minorities. The five in question are subverting authority by using a symbol that is entirely non objectionable in and of itself, (and that probably exists dozens and dozens of times over in the school itself,) to reject the premise that one group needs to be held in special recognition above another. If they had been going on about lettuce picking or drug running or some sort of thing derogatory to Mexicans, then I'd agree that they were being improperly provocative, but no one has claimed they actually were doing anything besides eating a snack on their break and (pointedly) refusing to go along with the multicutural party line.

[Shryke]

About half this thread is people peeing on me and trying to convince me that it's raining.

So let me get this straight, urinators. You're trying to tell me that a bunch of white students in a border state with the largest Hispanic population of any state dressing up in American flag attire on Cinco de Mayo in the middle of the largest and most contentious debate over Mexican immigration in living memory was either:

a] Coincidence

b] A spontaneous celebration of American patriotism

c] Nothing at all to do with the fact that right now this country is in the middle of the largest and most contentious debate over Mexican immigration in living memory, at a time when many white Americans are feeling anxious that "their" America is being taken away by the rising tides of blacks and browns and yellows?

Seriously. It's not raining. Stop pissing on my leg. Nobody is buying it.

And if they were, so what?

It's a stupid thing to get offended about and the offended just need to learn to live with it. Like we all live with stuff that offends us.

[The_BlauerDragon]

I agree. I also would have no problems with a Mexican national in the United States wearing a shirt with a Mexican flag on it on the 4th of July.

I have actually encountered large groups of people having 4th of July parties in public parks with several large Mexican flags decorating the area. They seemed to be cool about things, so no one really gave them any guff over it.

I have to ask a question though. Why don't we celebrate the Holidays of any other hostile (or slightly less than friendly at least) foreign nations that we've previously gone to war with?

[Gold Storm]

You know if some students were kicked out of school for wearing flag shirts from other countries it would be a huge deal. Were these students trying to start something, probably; was it racist, no; should they have been kicked out of school, no. This was an over reaction on the schools part.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

You know if some students were kicked out of school for wearing flag shirts from other countries it would be a huge deal. Were these students trying to start something, probably; was it racist, no; should they have been kicked out of school, no. This was an over reaction on the schools part.

Love the sig line. Anyway....

The good part is that the district agreed, and said that the school administration got it wrong. I think the school adminstrators need some discretion to forestall issues that may detract from the educational environment, but in this case, they just got it wrong because they ended up causing a much bigger problem as a result. First the local reaction, which was not good. Then yesterday, 200 Mexican-American students walked out of class in protest demanding the the t-shirted students be suspended.

The problem is deeper than just some kids wearing t-shirts.

[TerraPrime]

You know if some students were kicked out of school for wearing flag shirts from other countries it would be a huge deal. Were these students trying to start something, probably; was it racist, no; should they have been kicked out of school, no. This was an over reaction on the schools part.

The students had not been "kicked out of school."

They were asked to go home for the day. I have not heard of any additional sanctions against them.

[Swordfish]

Context is important. These boys wore those shirts for no other reason than to be offensive. I'm not saying they should have been made to remove them, what I am saying is that we should not allow them to hide their racism behind false patriotism.

You have no way of knowing that.

Assumes many facts not in evidence, and displays more about your own bias than it does about the teenagers in question.

Throwing around the race card like this is what gets legitimate concerns about racism dismissed as overtly PC bullshit.

Wearing t-shirts is a non-violent form of protest.

Is that no longer acceptable?

It absolutely should be.

Supporting freedom of expression is important, even if you disagree with what is being expressed.

And there's no reason from what i've seen to assume racism in this case.

I don't think the issue is that they find American flag to be offensive, in general.

Rather, they probably find the attempt of the 5 boys to make a political statement using the American Flag to be offensive.

Tough shit.

This is not a freedom of speech issue. This is a school. I can't be arrested for telling my neighbor to go fuck himself,

Sure you can.

[Tempra]

The students had not been "kicked out of school."

They were asked to go home for the day. I have not heard of any additional sanctions against them.

Why hello, Mr. Obtuse.

"Remove your shirts or your suspended." Sounds about right to me.

[Gold Storm]

The students had not been "kicked out of school."

They were asked to go home for the day. I have not heard of any additional sanctions against them.

Sent home kicked out whatever, it was the wrong thing to do. From what I have read, these students wore these shirts before without any problems.

[Swordfish]

And the authorities have beens lapping them down since forever. So what's the issue?

Primarily, the issue seems to be with the assumption that they are racists based on scant evidence to support such an assumption.

Would you agree that there's a racial element to what they did?

I think there is obviously a NATIONALIST element. Whether or not there is a racial element is an unknown.

[TerraPrime]

Why hello, Mr. Obtuse.

"Remove your shirts or your suspended." Sounds about right to me.

"Kicked out of school" can mean not being allowed to continue attending that school, yes? That was the distinction I was drawing.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I think there is obviously a NATIONALIST element. Whether or not there is a racial element is an unknown.

Some people think that the racial component is inherent/self-evident. I don't understand that POV given that there are Mexican-Americans who share that point of view, but that's what they think.

[Yagathai]

Some people think that the racial component is inherent/self-evident. I don't understand that POV given that there are Mexican-Americans who share that point of view, but that's what they think.

Jeff (that is you, isn't it?), you cannot seriously tell me that you don't think that there is a better than average chance that obnoxious, deliberately provocative ultra-nationalist yahoos do not conflate Mexican with Hispanic/Latino/brown and vice-versa.