Whatever Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Come on, dayne and lyanna again? I'd like that, but there is no possibility Rhaegar was around playing poker with gerord hightower while his best friend was having fun with the girl whose "kidnapping" caused that huge mess. No way! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarl Snow Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Come on, dayne and lyanna again? I'd like that, but there is no possibility Rhaegar was around playing poker with gerord hightower while his best friend was having fun with the girl whose "kidnapping" caused that huge mess. No way! :DC'mon, you have to admit it fits. =P Lancelot, Guinevere, Arthur, Excalibur, Joyous Gard.. Ser Arthur Dayne, Lyanna, Rhaegar, Dawn, Tower of Joy.It's interesting to note that Prince Lewyn had a paramour. Jaime had Cersei... hmm, they were three at ToJ, the dragon has three heads? =POh lord, that book had better not be delayed, my brain is making up it's own stories now. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Clegg Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Dayne is dead. Would GRRM have gone to all the trouble to create so much back-story if he wasn't going to have a pay-off at some point? Arthur Dayne could well be dead, but it seems kind of a waste if he was. Isn't it one of the golden rules of good writing, that if you introduce a gun in the first half of a story, it's sure to be fired in the second half? Well GRRM has set up plenty of guns, and we know that we are half-way through the series, so saying something isn't in "the spirit of the series" is pure baloney, seeing as we haven't got to the end yet. GRRM knows his craft, so he probably left some red herrings there as well, but Arthur Dayne coming back would be a great WTF moment =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitscralt Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Would GRRM have gone to all the trouble to create so much back-story if he wasn't going to have a pay-off at some point? Arthur Dayne could well be dead, but it seems kind of a waste if he was. No, it would seem like a waste if he wasn't dead. He and two other KG died as an exact opposite to Jaime Lannister. Even when all was lost they tried carrying out one last mission (most likely going into exile with the baby and eventually trying to put it on the throne rightfully). Outnumbered and against Lyanna's own brother, they still fought to the death.It would totally kill the entire scene if he did not die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 The detail about Dayne is there because he's an important figure in the past of both Eddard and Jaime, and he's the sort of figure who helps establish a sense of romantic mythology to the past -- his name is imbued with legendary overtones, thanks to the Matter of Britain, and the general way he's spoken of merely emphasizes the sense that There Was a Golden Age Once. That's all the point it serves. That, and introducing us to Dawn and the office of Sword of the Morning. Which is important, because Dawn was once the Red Sword of Heroes, also known as Lightbringer.It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ealasaid Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I thought it was common knowledge Moore is alive. I mean, I think it's pretty obvious that Syrio helped him swim away, where he hopped on a ship to the Free Cities, where Arthur Dayne was guarding Aegon (Egg, not Rhaegar's son) and also Gerold Hightower was there guarding Aegon (Rhaegar's son, not Egg). I mean, how could you NOT get that from the books?I thought Syrio waterdanced over to him and pulled him out of the water, swimming in armor is impossible. They are in the bottom rung of the Houce of Black and White, at first waiting for Arya to understand that she is not "no one" and will never be (Nymeria won't stand for it). Now they must wait for Arya to get her sight back. She has do do penance for killing Dareon by waiting on a courtesan for a fortnight.From the tip in ASoS, I undersood they would find Dany, explain to her that it isn't necessary to ride the dragons into battle. She just needs to send them into the battle to create havoc and get everyone's attention.Further, someone has to get Selmy going in helping Dany understand that her father was a tryant, that the Usurper was right in being ticked off Rhaeger filched his honey. Otherwise, Dany is going to have the dragons fry all Baratheon bastards and the remaining Starks.Then Jaime can revamp the KG, as he has been planning all along.Just so, and Syrio will click his teeth at Arya when she weds Gendry.I cannot wait for July.....Ran, Dawn was once the Red Swords of Heroes, also known as Lightbringer. It is known?Is it written? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I don't know if it's written, but it is known! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I don't know if it's written, but it is known!I've read a little about your theory on this issue and I was wondering:Do you think Azor Ahai will have to stab his/her beloved in the heart again in order to make the sword red once more? In other words, does the sword have to be "activated" again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermore Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 As I said before the wording is so that 2 of the 7 rode away and says nothing about the 3. Eddard doesn´t see them dead. The flashback ends when the fighting begins. We do not know what happened at the Tower of Joy.And then about GRRM not doing fake deaths:Bran and Rickon are dead. Theon took their heads as we all surely know. Oh wait!Ramsay Bolton is dead. His servant surrendered. What?You better hope Sandor Glegane never shows up again as we all know the hound is dead as well.Those all are against the spirit and tone of the books?just to be fair i would like to say that the sword cuts both ways, that passage doesn't say 2 out of 7, just says 2 which could include all of them (which is what i believe).though i do think maybe Reeds could've poisoned him with non lethal poison and knocked him out with it, so the 2 rides away thing is honoured but Dayne could still be alive. Also Dayne could be taking a false identity and has been towards the downfall of the houses and been pulling the strings (a lot of a stretch this part, but keep your suspension of disbelief). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitscralt Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 just to be fair i would like to say that the sword cuts both ways, that passage doesn't say 2 out of 7, just says 2 which could include all of them (which is what i believe).though i do think maybe Reeds could've poisoned him with non lethal poison and knocked him out with it, so the 2 rides away thing is honoured but Dayne could still be alive. Also Dayne could be taking a false identity and has been towards the downfall of the houses and been pulling the strings (a lot of a stretch this part, but keep your suspension of disbelief).Non-lethal poison that acted immediately enough to stop Eddard from being killed?I can't suspend my disbelief for any aspect of the Dayne character being alive at all, let alone being behind any plots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleLitke Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Ridiculous. His death is actually one of the key points of Jaime's character development, a critical part of Eddard's past, and is not only supported by Ned's recollections, but by EVERYTHING DEALING WITH THE CHARACTER EVER WRITTEN.Dayne is dead. GRRM doesn't do 'fake deaths' if you hadn't noticed. These "Tywin is alive," "Aegon is alive," "Aemon is alive," "Robert is alive," threads are completely against the spirit and tone of the books and not supported by anything that's been written so far.Well, I totally do not think Dayne is alive, but he does do some manner of "fake deaths" (we've seen multiple characters die and come back, Beric and Catelyn specifically, Bran and Rickon were declared dead by an unreliable source and they weren't, Ramsay Bolton faked his death, Sandor Clegane is likely not dead...), and also, I don't think Aegon fits at all. I agree the others are ridiculous, as they are "you saw this character die or were informed by a reliable source (in Dayne's case) that he is dead". Aegon doesn't really fit because we are merely told he died because Gregor and Lorch said he did (it was Lorch, right?), not exactly reliable sources, not PoV characters, AND it happened long before the series. Dayne is thought to have died by Ned, a PoV character whose thoughts we are seeing where he clearly remembers digging 8 graves (remember, Lyanna's body came north). Plus in what world would Arthur Dayne run away? And you can't say to defend Viserys, because aside from him never going to him, he already knew Viserys was headed overseas and didn't leave the Tower. As for Tywin, Aemon, and Robert we clearly witnessed their deaths.I'm not saying Aegon is alive, by the way, I really have no opinion on the matter, I assume he's dead and GRRM was just messing with people in his comments, but I could see a theoretical scenario where he was smuggled out. It's not the same as the other ones mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Strong Belwas is Arthur Dayne. It is known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Alleluia,I lean towards a sacrifice being necessary, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermore Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Non-lethal poison that acted immediately enough to stop Eddard from being killed?I can't suspend my disbelief for any aspect of the Dayne character being alive at all, let alone being behind any plots.it's possible maybe the crannogmen have a supply of Baslisk breath, lets not forget this is fantasy, and also assuming that the dude just wanted to knock him out for a while maybe he called ahead to tell Dayne of this plan and Dayne just laid on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Alleluia,I lean towards a sacrifice being necessary, yeah.Is this sacrifice named Jon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think I tend to imagine that the name is Viserion, Rhaegal, or Drogon, or possibly Shireen... This is all complete speculation, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I suppose the dragons would make sense . . . but Shireen? I thought one of the distinguishing aspects of the legend of Lightbringer is that Azor Ahai had to sacrifice his beloved to bring it to life. If Daenerys were to sacrifice her "children" I could see how that would correspond but, once again, Shireen? Daenerys has no connection with her, at least not yet, beyond being somewhat distantly related through blood -- unless there is something I'm not seeing about this all . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogo Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! I just had a fucking wiiiild thought. What if Arthur and Rhaegar changed places? Arthur was a Dayne and don't they sort of look like Targs? I know that Rhaegar and Arthur were like best friends. Maybe it was a common joke that Arthur and Rhaegar could be twins if it were only for such and such. So Rhaegar stays back with his new bride and son while Dayne tries to win the war. Too bad Robert wins.Ned comes down finds em everyone dies cept for ned reed and rhaegar who is near death leads them inside to lyanna who is also dying. they die holding one another pleading for jons life.BOOOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 lol. i like it, :thumbsup: but my robb-is-alive-theory is more BOOOM :fencing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitscralt Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 but my robb-is-alive-theory is more BOOOM :fencing:And if he's not... he will be soon! Wolf-headed berserker teamed up with Lady Stoneheart for the win.....in my dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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