U.S. Politics, 9 trillion

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

When the candidates are Jeffery Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, voting only makes you complicit. You haven't prevented any evil from taking place.

[alguien]

When the candidates are Jeffery Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, voting only makes you complicit. You haven't prevented any evil from taking place.

Good thing I wrote in Greg Stillson and his running mate Cletus Kasady then.

[The Progressive]

Good thing I wrote in Greg Stillson and his running mate Cletus Kasady then.

Good thing I also voted against the proposition to increase sales tax in the same ballot.

But Tormund likes higher sales tax cuz he's cool like that.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Good thing I also voted against the proposition to increase sales tax in the same ballot.

I'm pretty sure what I said was "stop voting for democrats and republicans".

[The Progressive]

I'm pretty sure what I said was "stop voting for democrats and republicans".

You must be living in that one magical area in the US where write-in candidates are forbidden.

[Shryke]

When the candidates are Jeffery Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy, voting only makes you complicit. You haven't prevented any evil from taking place.

This is a bullshit analogy.

One of the viable candidates will be better for you then the other. Even if they all suck, one is going to suck slightly less. And, the key point here, one of them is going to get elected. Do your best to make sure it's the one that sucks the least in your opinion.

And complicity is the stupidest, most asinine way to talk about the democratic process. Not voting makes you just as complicit in the election of the winner as they people who voted for him. And that's assuming "complicity" is even relevant. (fyi - it's not)

In the end, one of the candidates is going to get elected. Your "lack of complicity" is irrelevant to this and just a way to make yourself feel better about your own laziness and apathy. "No one gets elected" is not an option.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

You must be living in that one magical area in the US where write-in candidates are forbidden.

What the hell are you talking about? All I said was "stop voting for democrats and republicans". Thats all. I'm not sure why this would preclude you from writing in, unless you are only allowed to write in democrats or republicans.

This is a bullshit analogy.

One of the viable candidates will be better for you then the other. Even if they all suck, one is going to suck slightly less. And, the key point here, one of them is going to get elected. Do your best to make sure it's the one that sucks the least in your opinion.

Dahmer killed 17 people. Gacy killed 33. If one of them is totally going to win, by this logic you better vote for Jeffery Dahmer.

Voting is the use of political force. By voting you are exercising force against everyone else in the election. If you use force to install Jeffery Dahmer, you are complicit.

Your opinion that a democrat or a republican is going to win so you better vote for one is crap. Especially seeing as you've never voted for either.

[Smashing Young Man]

Here’s a Post-it note for ObamaCare supporters and opponents: Over the weekend 3M (MMM), the maker of the ubiquitous sticky message pads, along with electronics, optics and more, decided to end its retirees’ access to its health care plan beginning in 2013. According to the Wall Street Journal:

Or, as opponents of ObamaCare predicted, they’re finding it cheaper to dump their retirees onto the exchange.

That comes on the heels of a report Thursday that McDonald’s was considering dropping its “mini-med” plan for its employees because those plans may run afoul of the forthcoming medical-loss ratio regulations.

Also on Thursday, the Principal Financial Group (PFG) announced it would stop selling health insurance, which means 840,000 employees who receive Principal coverage through their employers will have to look elsewhere. Just the day before, President Obama said, “So there’s nothing in the bill that says you have to change the health insurance that you’ve got right now.” And he’s right: the bill doesn’t say it; it just causes it.

Indeed, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care was giving the lie to Obama’s statement as he was making it. Harvard Pilgrim announced that it would end its Medicare Advantage plans at the end of the year, leaving its 22,000 Advantage customers scrambling for coverage.

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/2108-the-emerging-obamacare-massacre

[The Progressive]

What the hell are you talking about? All I said was "stop voting for democrats and republicans". Thats all. I'm not sure why this would preclude you from writing in, unless you are only allowed to write in democrats or republicans.

Are you seriously that dense, Tormund? If you're dissatisfied with the names of Democratic or Republican candidates, you have the option of writing in the names of other third or fourth or fifth parties candidates. Seriously, is that so hard to comprehend?

Voting is the use of political force. By voting you are exercising force against everyone else in the election. If you use force to install Jeffery Dahmer, you are complicit.

Ohhhhhhhhhkay, I can see that you have went off the deep end and further discussion on this topic with you is quite pointless.

[alguien]

Dahmer killed 17 people. Gacy killed 33. If one of them is totally going to win, by this logic you better vote for Jeffery Dahmer.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

[Shryke]

Dahmer killed 17 people. Gacy killed 33. If one of them is totally going to win, by this logic you better vote for Jeffery Dahmer.

Voting is the use of political force. By voting you are exercising force against everyone else in the election. If you use force to install Jeffery Dahmer, you are complicit.

Your opinion that a democrat or a republican is going to win so you better vote for one is crap. Especially seeing as you've never voted for either.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. You just refuse to acknowledge it because doing so pokes a whole in your self-righteous bullshit balloon.

Seriously Tormund, give me another option that will occur in a Presidential election? What's option C here? Or hell, let's generalize, option C is "A third party candidate wins". What's option D?

Someone is going to be President, no matter how much you might wish it didn't happen. There is no other outcome. Wishing for fantasy scenarios is childish.

So the only question is are you going to attempt to steer the governments that effect you towards whatever outcome you desire most or are you going to pout like a 2 year old and pretend that not voting is gonna make the whole government go away?

[Swordfish]

Stop participating in partisan politics. Refuse to vote for republicans or democrats. There's your first step.

Yep.

http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesting/2108-the-emerging-obamacare-massacre

“Let me be exactly clear about what health care reform means to you,” the president told residents of the Garden State. “First of all, if you’ve got health insurance, you like your doctors, you like your plan, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.”

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Are you seriously that dense, Tormund? If you're dissatisfied with the names of Democratic or Republican candidates, you have the option of writing in the names of other third or fourth or fifth parties candidates. Seriously, is that so hard to comprehend?

Are you that dense? Point out to me where I said not to do this, where I said it was a bad idea, where I discouraged it in any way. Why is it so hard to comprehend that you are arguing against a point that no one made?

Seriously Tormund, give me another option that will occur in a Presidential election? What's option C here? Or hell, let's generalize, option C is "A third party candidate wins". What's option D?

Someone is going to be President, no matter how much you might wish it didn't happen. There is no other outcome. Wishing for fantasy scenarios is childish.

So the only question is are you going to attempt to steer the governments that effect you towards whatever outcome you desire most or are you going to pout like a 2 year old and pretend that not voting is gonna make the whole government go away?

So the moral of the story is, the bad guys won? Cuddle up next to the bad guy who treats you less-bad than the other and maybe someday he'll say he loves you after he's finished? Don't bother trying to find a good guy because the bad guys will win anyway? Is that what you are saying here?

[TerraPrime]

So the moral of the story is, the bad guys won? Cuddle up next to the bad guy who treats you less-bad than the other and maybe someday he'll say he loves you after he's finished? Don't bother trying to find a good guy because the bad guys will win anyway? Is that what you are saying here?

Yes.

People are corrupt, selfish, mean-spirited animals. Once you accept that, things become easier, because it ceases to be about finding good things, but about controlling damage.

In other words: There are no good guys in this story.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Yes.

People are corrupt, selfish, mean-spirited animals. Once you accept that, things become easier, because it ceases to be about finding good things, but about controlling damage.

In other words: There are no good guys in this story.

Well, I refuse to accept that outcome. Viva la revolucion :commie:

[TerraPrime]

Well, I refuse to accept that outcome. Viva la revolucion :commie:

You can sit in the corner with the Flat-Earthers, then. :P

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

You can sit in the corner with the Flat-Earthers, then. :P

And Thomas Jefferson, and Che Guevara, and Robespierre, and Ghandi, and Judas Maccabeus, and Spartacus.

Meanwhile you get the August company of Karl Rove and Rahm Emmanuel. :P

[Alcibiades]

I hope everyone saw the new Christine O'Donnell ad:

Does anyone else find this ad creepy? I know there's a tendency to project onto politicians ideas or positions that they don't necessarily agree with, and politicians like to leave things vague to facilitate this sometimes. But I'm not sure I've seen anything like this, where a pol says "I'll go to washington and do what you'd do."

The lighting and and effects in that ad make it seem almost video-gamey to me.

[Shryke]

So the moral of the story is, the bad guys won? Cuddle up next to the bad guy who treats you less-bad than the other and maybe someday he'll say he loves you after he's finished? Don't bother trying to find a good guy because the bad guys will win anyway? Is that what you are saying here?

Huh? Bad guys? What Bad guys? What the hell are you talking about?

The moral of the story is that elections take place and these elections elect people. Your lack of participation has no effect in this process, other then the abdication of your chance at influencing it's outcome. Again, someone is getting elected. That's a simple hard fact. The only question here is, which of the candidates would you rather it be. There is no "None of the Above" here. Someone is winning the election.

You not voting does not send a message of any sort. In large part because it's indistinguishable from the people too lazy to vote or "too busy that day" to vote or whatever other excuse they have. No one is listening because by not voting, you are not saying anything. You aren't even opening your mouth.

[Shryke]

I hope everyone saw the new Christine O'Donnell ad:

Does anyone else find this ad creepy? I know there's a tendency to project onto politicians ideas or positions that they don't necessarily agree with, and politicians like to leave things vague to facilitate this sometimes. But I'm not sure I've seen anything like this, where a pol says "I'll go to washington and do what you'd do."

The lighting and and effects in that ad make it seem almost video-gamey to me.

The fact that she has to start it off with "I'm not a Witch" meas it's pretty much a complete failure.