U.S. Politics, 9 trillion

[TrackerNeil]

This bill has massive implications that supporters just prefer to pooh-pooh and hope that the unintended consequences will just go away.

If you're referring to the Affordable Care Act, it's not a bill; it's the law.

[lokisnow]

just regarding the Mcdonalds story. I find it interesting that it costs them $14 a week to get a plan that is capped at $2000 a year.

When I worked in fast food, every restaurant was notorious for never allowing employees to work more than 30 hours. you were scheduled for about 25 and rarely had more than 29. Every single person I knew at every fast food restaurant in our town had the same experience. The only people who got forty hours were managers and assistant managers.

So why does that matter? $14 a week is just a hair under 10% of the minimum wage I earned for thirty hours a week. Minimum wage was 5.15, I'm not sure what it is now, but wow, can you imagine paying 10% of your take home pay to get health insurance that's capped at 2000?

[Shryke]

Altherion,

Didn't a support of the bill when asked if this was a "Trojan Horse" to get single payer say, "No, the puropose is right out in the open."

It is right out in the open Scot. Health Insurance must have an over-head below X%. If they do that, they are fine.

The purpose of the law is, among other things, to make insurance companies lower their overhead. It's all right out in the open.

[Lord O' Bones]

Are you sure the consequences are unintended? The fewer employers provide coverage, the more appealing certain alternatives become...

The more I see and read about corporations and insurance companies trying to figure out loopholes the more I like this bill. This very well may bring about what we as a country need.

This has occurred to me as well. And fuckin' A! if it works.

My understanding is that the law says that the volume of the commercial can be no louder than the average volume of the show that it airs with. Praise Allah.

Praise everydamnbody in heaven. Was there any more symbolic parallel to The Matrix than our subjection to that blatant abuse by the corporate machine?

(Probably, but I'm stoked.)

just regarding the Mcdonalds story. I find it interesting that it costs them $14 a week to get a plan that is capped at $2000 a year.

When I worked in fast food, every restaurant was notorious for never allowing employees to work more than 30 hours. you were scheduled for about 25 and rarely had more than 29. Every single person I knew at every fast food restaurant in our town had the same experience. The only people who got forty hours were managers and assistant managers.

So why does that matter? $14 a week is just a hair under 10% of the minimum wage I earned for thirty hours a week. Minimum wage was 5.15, I'm not sure what it is now, but wow, can you imagine paying 10% of your take home pay to get health insurance that's capped at 2000?

You worked for the chain, not the corporation. Advertising, contractors, administration of the global branding need to be taken into account; not just the typically teenage/immigrant/retired workforce you see in the actual Micky D's.

[Swordfish]

Of course they're calling the story "completely false". Richard Nixon also said that he was "not a crook". I don't think either of those statements are believable.

Trust me, I work in the industry. This *is* being seriously discussed. It would be a "bad PR move" if it leaked out now, but in a few years, when all the competitors have done the same thing (dropped employee health coverage) and McD's is denied a waiver...then they'll report all sad-faced that it just couldn't be done. And if you want a burger that's been cooked by someone with health insurance...you'll be cooking it youself, if you're insured.

As far as moving employees to part-time, the main cost is turnover and re-training. And uniforms. Not PR, as in the Pier 1 example. :)

And I wouldn't be surprised if a high percentage of McDonalds employees are already part time.

Not all insurance is equal. Losing the sort of insurance they have (where a lot of it simply goes to pay administrative costs and the maximum amount paid out is so small that they may very well be better off paying out of pocket) is no great loss. Losing insurance which will actually pay either all or a large fraction of a medical bill in case of a catastrophe has the potential to be catastrophic.

Well, oik. What are you basing this conclusion on? Is it just the '80%' number?

Because if so, I'm not going to bother even pointing out the problems with your logic, but if there is other info you're basing this on I'd love to see it.

[Lord O' Bones]

And I wouldn't be surprised if a high percentage of McDonalds employees are already part time.

What is a high percentage? Because...

Advertising, contractors, administration of the global branding need to be taken into account; not just the typically teenage/immigrant/retired workforce you see in the actual Micky D's.

[Swordfish]

What is a high percentage? Because...

Well, something above an average percentage I suppose. I recognize that the corporation has a lot of business units, but I'd be surprised if they even approach the number of front line franchise workers.

Are the types of jobs you mentioned included in the coverage plans we're talking about here anyway?

If you're referring to the Affordable Care Act, it's not a bill; it's the law.

Pedantics FTW!!

[Lord O' Bones]

Are the types of jobs you mentioned included in the coverage plans we're talking about here anyway?

I honestly don't know. But I'd be very surprised if they didn't make up the majority of full-time employees of McDonalds Corp. compared to the franchise workers, non-management. Unless something has drastically changed since the last time I paid much attention to that job market.

ETA: I mean, it is a business model designed to employ part time workers on the front lines. With no benefits. And while it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that immigrant fry cooks may not get benefits, it works very well as far as the teenagers/retirees IMO.

[ThinkerX]

Ok...so collectively or one by one, most or all of the major corporations in the US choose to 'pay the fee' rather than offer health insurance to their workers. This, of course, doesn't take into account all the small businesses out there who, despite the lies out of washington to the contrary, simply never had the money to offer such insurance in the first place.

So...this leaves a *lot* of people in the US - possibly a majority - with no insurance that they can afford, and who in fact are getting gouged by the Infernal Revenue Service precisely because they cannot afford insurance. The choice between taking a really unaffordable hit (remember, this recession thing with low pay and few jobs is here for several more years, minimum) and a barely affordable hit.

All of which means that the funding for this so called 'Affordable Health Care' deal takes a really catastrophic hit (like the money the infernal revenue service collected from the uninsured is actually going to go towards health care coverage. Believe that, and there's some public monuments out there I'll sell you.

So...what happens then? You have a system purportedly intended to make health care affordable which instead is ripping people off big time while actual medical costs continue to sky-rocket. Not only that, the next step (which will pass with barely a murmer) will be to heavily restrict or ban low cost alternatives for many medical treatments (no profit in it for the big guys).

I'd say this whole Affordable Health Care thing is doomed to catastrophic failure in the next few years. Really, really catastrophic.

[Lord O' Bones]

I'd say this whole Affordable Health Care thing is doomed to catastrophic failure in the next few years. Really, really catastrophic.

Or doomed to systemic modification, to make it work as the potholes are found?

Like our socialist interstate highway system?

[Shryke]

Or doomed to systemic modification, to make it work as the potholes are found?

Like our socialist interstate highway system?

Or every single other US government program like ... ever.

[Commodore]

Rush on Family Guy sunday, looks good

McDonalds is just the beginning, not only is so much power given to regulators to make rules, they also have the power to grant waivers to the rules they make. The very nature of the law ensures corruption.

[ThinkerX]

Or doomed to systemic modification, to make it work as the potholes are found?

Like our socialist interstate highway system?

Some success story that is. Along with the rest of the natures infrastructure, it is dire immediate need of massive rebuilding - but that ain't gunna happen because *everybody* is broke. So we'll get a few patches and work-arounds for the absolute worst bits, even as the rest crumbles away.

True for *BOTH* 'Affordable' Health Care and the Highway system.

[Lord O' Bones]

Or every single other US government program like ... ever.

If that were true we would be Canada. With better weather. In some places.

Dammnit.

Rush on Family Guy sunday, looks good

Just noticed that. It does look good.

McDonalds is just the beginning, not only is so much power given to regulators to make rules, they also have the power to grant waivers to the rules they make. The very nature of the law ensures corruption.

You need to either lower or raise your dosage. I mean ask you doctor first, but ask.

[Lord O' Bones]

Highway system.

Interstate (federally dealt with) Highway system.

All good in broke-ass California.

Maybe Sarah Palin fucked up where you're at, but the fed did not fuck up any Interstate I've been on in the last 20 years. And I do drive.

[awesome possum]

Some success story that is. Along with the rest of the natures infrastructure, it is dire immediate need of massive rebuilding - but that ain't gunna happen because *everybody* is broke. So we'll get a few patches and work-arounds for the absolute worst bits, even as the rest crumbles away.

True for *BOTH* 'Affordable' Health Care and the Highway system.

LoB covered it well. I've owned three cars in the last 15 years, driven about 125,000 miles all told. Never once had a car problem that was a result of a problem in the road I was driving on. Don't know how your highways are up in Alaska, but down it's pretty easy to get from just about any Point A to just about any Point B in a car.

[sologdin]

but that ain't gunna happen because *everybody* is broke.

well, more or less every major street in uptown and midcity new orleans is currently under construction. it's a real pain in the ass, but a good chunk of it is ARRA moneys.

[Lord O' Bones]

I mentioned a while ago that TARP was not only necessary, but perhaps even a big success. This idea is becoming a theme in the media lately. It's interesting because both parties are not mentioning it and it was arguably a success for both parties. I think that you can argue that it was George Bush's most important/successful action.

I wish you well in your quest to allow people on masse to consider reality. I'm afraid it may not work, even here.

[Swordfish]

I mentioned a while ago that TARP was not only necessary, but perhaps even a big success. This idea is becoming a theme in the media lately. It's interesting because both parties are not mentioning it and it was arguably a success for both parties. I think that you can argue that it was George Bush's most important/successful action.

Here's Joshua Green of The Atlantic

Here's Fareed Zakaria of Newsweek

Really take a look at the first two paragraphs which underscore how bad things actually got and how real the threat of Great Depression 2.0 actually was.

Here is David Frum of FrumForum on the Obama Admin's decision not to nationalize the banks.

I have been saying this all along. Even if it had almost no effect (which i don't think is true) it was a no brainer because there was almost zero risk involved.

People who are clamoring about TARP as a bailout for big banks simply don't understand what TARP was. A casualty of the backlash against BIG BAILOUT, which became, and still is to some degree, the knee jerk reaction of a lot of irrational people.

It could have been even a bigger win, but it was never going to be any kind of a major failure, even in the worst case scenerios.

*cue the moral hazard arguments*

[alguien]

Can someone please tell me how Eliot Spitzer scored his own show on CNN?!?