MMA 11 - Beatdown after the BELL!

[GSP]

I hereby promise myself to be in way better shape by the time I visit Thailand (I'm making good progress these days!)

I've always mixed feelings about Dana White. On the one hand, I appreciate all that he's done for his organization, and sometimes even the sport. It's beyond arguement that the UFC has been at the vanguard to legalize mma in more jurisdictions than I can remember, and certainly in my own (Bummed that I'll be way too broke to make that Toronto show even though it's a couple hours drive, but them's the brakes). On the other hand, he oftentimes comes off as a fuckin prick and just a little egocentric and I often find his strongarm business and promotional tactics deplorable.

But I think I just witnessed something that made me fall more towards the dislike side of the spectrum. I watched the lastest edition of "Ultimate Insider" over on the UFC's website, and at about the 8:10 mark DW answers a fan's question about what the most difficult part of his job is. He responds that it is educating people about the sport, particularly back in the early years, and I suppose that's fine. But I was just surprised that his response wasn't something to the affect of "Giving a guy who's fought his heart out his walking papers just because he's dropped a few, when in all honestly, the fights at this level are so well matched that it is almost a coin flip for who is going to win a given fight", or something like that. It seemed to me a no brainer that the worst part of the job for me, if I had DW's job, would be making and communicating the decision to a fighter that he's been cut. But then, I'm a human being, and it would be silly of me to expect such empathy from DW for the fighters.

[GSP]

And out of left field the UFC buys Strikeforce.

[Analu]

I hereby promise myself to be in way better shape by the time I visit Thailand (I'm making good progress these days!)

Well you don't have to be in great shape to train over there. We're farang paying to train there, not Thai kids who -have- to train twice a day, so you can skip workouts if you're not feeling up for it. I just got it into my stubborn head that I was going to make every workout no matter how sore I was feeling. Because hey, how many times do you get a chance to train at a legit Muay Thai camp?

Anyways, you should definitely go and let me know if you do. It was a blast and all the Thai trainers and fighters were unbelievably nice and friendly. I got to see a bunch of Thai kids from the gym fight at Raja and Lumpinee stadium, too.

And out of left field the UFC buys Strikeforce.

Wow. I've been avoiding combat sites all day so as not to be spoiled by the Martinez-Dzuwhatever and Cotto-Mayorga fights, so this is the first I've heard about this. Not sure how I feel about it yet. On one hand, I guess if they're going to cross-promote, that'd be great for fight fans. On the other hand, I liked the idea of Coker and company putting up the good fight against the UFC juggernaut. Maybe this means Fedor-Brock will really happen, though both have lost some luster.

[Horus Ex Machina]

And out of left field the UFC buys Strikeforce.

Unlike thier previous buyouts, this did come out of left field. Strikeforce was not in financial trouble as Pride, Affliction, WEC, or EliteXC were. They were making money. Ultimately I'm interested to see what this will mean for the future of the women's division which has been growing under Strikeforce's nurturing. We'll see how this works out in the end. Interesting that there will be no copromoted fights between the two organizations. And how long will SF continue to run as a separate organization? I like Strikeforce, I like their product and what they bring to the MMA scene. Hopefully that doesn't get snuffed out by this deal. It seemed to come just as they were getting alot of momentum. They appeared to really have just flat out sold out. Not surprising really. Blockbuster is kicking themselvses right now for not buying Netflix when they had the chance, and Zuffa doesn't like to take chances. Just when MMA was starting to get more interesting too.

However there did seem to be some signs of this in hindsight. For one thing Zuffa was getting alot less confrontational with them. Dan Henderson was on the Bruce Buffer show just this week. It seemed strange at the time for a Zuffa employee to host a rival promotion's champ. Curious stuff. Hope this will be good for MMA. I felt that the multitude of options was healthy for MMA fans and fighters. I really would like to see SF continue to grow, even under the Zuffa banner. But we'll see.

I remember when I first started the first MMA thread and it was right on the eve of the UFC purchase of Pride. There was so much excitement from fans of both promotions,... then Pride died. But Pride was already dying. It would have taken an effort from Zuffa to save it. However, now that Strikeforce is part of Zuffa, the likely plan will be to canabalize the promotion of it's stars. The fact that there won't be any cross-promotinal superfights lends credence to this theory. My only hope is that Zuffa won't kill the women's division. They deserve to fight and have thier efforts seen. And they've been putting up good fights.

[Stego]

Reports are saying that M1 is teh cause of Strikeforce needing more money, which led to the buyout.

It seems the unreasonableness of Fedor's demands have been proven to be factual and Dana White has been redeemed. Hate the guy all you want, but he was right about every aspect of Fedor.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Reports are saying that M1 is teh cause of Strikeforce needing more money, which led to the buyout.

It seems the unreasonableness of Fedor's demands have been proven to be factual and Dana White has been redeemed. Hate the guy all you want, but he was right about every aspect of Fedor.

What reports? The latest Fedor deal was negotiated with Showtime, it had nothing to do with this bc SF wasn't paying him. I've read that in literally none of the 20 or so articles I've read on this so far today. Bottom line, Coker's SVE partners had apparently been looking to sell. Pro Elite got involved and that attracted the interest of the UFC. That's pretty much the whole narrative. Anything else is probably speculation from internet board monkeys. Don't believe them. Fedor's losing probably had something to do with this though. It killed the potential Overeem vs. Fedor ppv.

[Stego]

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/309559/Meltzer-M-1-Global-caused-Strikeforces-demise/

[Oorag]

I hope White's just being coy about keeping the two organizations separate, and will fold Strikeforce into the UFC once all the contracts are up. I'd really like to see some of these fighters dumped into the UFC talent pool, especially Overeem and Diaz. White was talking about possibly making some changes to Strikeforce's presentation. I hope they bring in elbows on the ground and ditch the pyrotechnics.

[GSP]

Seems like the UFC gets an additional advantage: they get to contract with other parties that can't directly with ufc, either because Dana has been too ignorant, or contractual relations prohibit them. The Showtime contract as exhibit 1.

DW gets to save face and keep promises like "Paul Daley will never fight for the UFC again" but still own his services. He lets Scott Coker deal with Fedor and he keeps him too. He gets Dan Henderson back. He get's the services of Diaz, even if he doesn't "play the game, just a litte" and on and on. Also, they can experiment with freakshows if they want, and never sully the parent company brand image.

I've already seen Bellator making aggressive noises. Hope that means there will still be actual competition out there.

[Commodore]

Is it for sure that they will stay separate entities?

Overeem potentially entering the UFC heavyweight division is the most appealing thing about this merger.

[Horus Ex Machina]

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/309559/Meltzer-M-1-Global-caused-Strikeforces-demise/

I'd like to see more than a blurb. Until I see more folks like Josh Gross etc put some credibility to that rumor, I'm not convinced. If Meltzer felt so strong about this he should release more details on that story, plus there are plenty of guys at multiple MMA websites and blogs that would have been running the same story, since most of these guys have the same sources. I think he's just speculating otherwise he would have gone into more detail. We'll see, but there were numerous sources during the latest Fedor negotiations that said then that he was negotiating with Showtime, not Strikeforce. Fedor's ppl said as much yesterday. Until I see more detail and info from him as well as more MMA columnists back him on this, I'm thinking he's just throwing darts at the wall. Fedor was always going to be the red herring in this, but I think there's more to this. There always is.

Right now the UFC is waiting for the SF deal with Showtime to expire before they move dissolve the promotion. Clearly Showtime is going to be left holding the bag on this one bc they clearly liked the Strikeforce product, so I can't imagine that they're too happy right now. It's thier fault really, they were prepared to buy Elite XC until the Kimbo debacle, but they never even considered locking down Strikeforce when it was providing them with consistent ratings and subscribers. They were building a bit of brand rec for SF as well, the promotion was trending up Google. Now they're back at square one.

However, I'm wondering if Showtime doesn't just buy out the rest of Strikeforce's existing contract right now and either try to work a deal with the UFC or move on to another promotion right now. Because unless they can get Zuffa to extend the current Strikeforce deal beyond 2012 it seems pointless at this point to continue to build a product that seems destined to be folded as soon as the current deal runs out.

I am disappointed to see them sell out to Zuffa bc in the end it hurts the fighters to lose another option which was stable. Now there's only Bellator and they don't have the money to offer too many fighters a chance.

Here's a more accurate read on what 99.9% of MMA blogs and sites are reading into the situation.

http://insidefights.com/2011/03/13/what-strikeforce-failed-to-do-when-challenging-the-ufc/

Basically Silicon Valley Entertainment was never in for the national promotion idea and they owned 50% of the company. Most sites contend that Strikeforce wasn't truly losing money like Affliction and EliteXC were hence why this came out of nowhere, but SVE still wasn't interested in putting up the investment necessary to grow this long term. When Pro Elite (the former owners of EliteXC) looked to buy them out, Zuffa stepped in. So far that's all that's being reported at this point. Fedor's deal will likely be a lightning rod for MMA fans who aren't on the inside with details, but reporters aren't really running with that. We'll know more tommorrow when the real news cycle begins on this and more statements are released.

Here's another interesting breakdown on the announcement.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/13/2048146/ufc-buys-strikeforce-the-case-of-the-curious-announcement

I think that part of the reason that this went down so quietly was so that Showtime couldn't try to scuttle the process, which I imagine that they would have. It will be interesting to see what their take on this will be, but most major companies don't release statements on weekends, so we likely won't hear anything else on this until tomorrow. I expect news to come fast and furious around noon.

[Stego]

I'm thrilled at the possibility of Overeem joining the UFC's heavyweight division. I will get to see my theory that Mir, Lesnar, JDS, Cain, and Carwin would all whoop his ass with a quickness play out.

Not that he will even win this tourney. (If they choose to finish it.)

Best part about this is that I won't have to listen to Shamrock do any more color commentary.

[Stego]

I am disappointed to see them sell out to Zuffa bc in the end it hurts the fighters to lose another option which was stable. Now there's only Bellator and they don't have the money to offer too many fighters a chance.

NFL players make some decent cash without a competitive alternative.

[Horus Ex Machina]

NFL players make some decent cash without a competitive alternative.

That's a horrible comparison and I'll tell you right now why. The NFL is not a single entity corporation like Zuffa is. The NFL is a league. The UFC is not a league. When there are 32 separate franchises in the UFC all competing for talent like you have in the NFL then I'll accept that statement. They have a central organization with a commissioner who represents all of the owners at the table and negotiates tv deals, etc, but at the end of the day each individual owner runs their own franchise and competes for talent allowing an open market within the league. Are there 32 billionaires competing for talent within the UFC? That's the reason why the NFL has an anti-trust exemption, because you have separate franchises under the same banner. No such situation exists in the UFC. It's as simple as that. That's why NFL players make decent cash. You have the Eagles competing for players with the Cowboys, Redskins, Giants, etc. Quit pretending that it's the same. This gets brought up over and over yet ppl refuse to call a dog a dog. The UFC is not a league.

[Stego]

That's a horrible comparison and I'll tell you right now why. The NFL is not a single entity corporation like Zuffa is. The NFL is a league. The UFC is not a league. When there are 32 separate franchises in the UFC all competing for talent like you have in the NFL then I'll accept that statement. They have a central organization with a commissioner who represents all of the owners at the table and negotiates tv deals, etc, but at the end of the day each individual owner runs their own franchise and competes for talent allowing an open market within the league. Are there 32 billionaires competing for talent within the UFC? That's the reason why the NFL has an anti-trust exemption, because you have separate franchises under the same banner. No such situation exists in the UFC. It's as simple as that. That's why NFL players make decent cash. You have the Eagles competing for players with the Cowboys, Redskins, Giants, etc. Quit pretending that it's the same. This gets brought up over and over yet ppl refuse to call a dog a dog. The UFC is not a league.

The owners in the NFL all collude. I think you are the one not calling a dog a dog.

[Analu]

I'm thrilled at the possibility of Overeem joining the UFC's heavyweight division. I will get to see my theory that Mir, Lesnar, JDS, Cain, and Carwin would all whoop his ass with a quickness play out.

Quoted because my memory is shit, but I hope I remember this when/if Overeem comes over to the UFC and starts wrecking some fools.

Conversely, you can quote me on this and rub it in my face if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. His standup is lightyears ahead of most UFC fighters, and his submission game (esp his guillotine) ain't too shabby either. We'll see.

ps. That's assuming he passes all his tests, of course.

[Stego]

ps. That's assuming he passes all his tests, of course.

If Lesnar and Mir and Carwin can pass, then so can he.

Regardless, he is going to shown the door in the UFC quickly. He'll be touring with the fifth rate companies and fighting boxers in local promotions like Tim Sylvia in two years. I'm pretty convinced Cheik Kongo would wreck his shit. Literally the only name on his 'beaten' list worth mentioning is Vitor Belfort and that was at a different weight class. Whenever he has fought a 'name' fighter other than Belfort, he has lost. He is going to get demolished, early and often.

I would love to see Barnett come into the UFC, too. I'd love to see third rate nobodies shut his overrated ass up.

[Horus Ex Machina]

If Lesnar and Mir and Carwin can pass, then so can he.

Regardless, he is going to shown the door in the UFC quickly. He'll be touring with the fifth rate companies and fighting boxers in local promotions like Tim Sylvia in two years. I'm pretty convinced Cheik Kongo would wreck his shit. Literally the only name on his 'beaten' list worth mentioning is Vitor Belfort and that was at a different weight class. Whenever he has fought a 'name' fighter other than Belfort, he has lost. He is going to get demolished, early and often.

I would love to see Barnett come into the UFC, too. I'd love to see third rate nobodies shut his overrated ass up.

Yeah, I stopped reading after that.

The owners in the NFL all collude. I think you are the one not calling a dog a dog.

Yeah okay... so I guess they just get together before the season and just decide which players will play where and who's going to be in the Superbowl too. So they would really be shelling out 8 figure a year contracts for QBs if they didn't have to compete for contracts right? I'm officially pushing the troll alert button on that bs you just typed. You want to sit here and act like it's an apples to apples comparison, it's your right, but just like I won't waste my time explaining that 2+2=4 or how the sky is blue, I'm not going to sit here and argue with you on that point. Hey the worlds gonna end in 2012 too. Believe what you wanna believe.

[Ken Stone]

Best part about this is that I won't have to listen to Shamrock do any more color commentary.

I was happy about this too. Unfortunately though Announcing team to remain unchanged..

[Oorag]

I was happy about this too. Unfortunately though Announcing team to remain unchanged..

Yeah, I figured that the announcing team would stay on until at least their contracts expired. Hopefully they'll get Shamrock and Mauro out of there. I like Miletich and have no opinion on Gus Johnson. I'd like to see Stephen Quadros as a play-by-play. I've enjoyed listening to him and Bas in the old Pride fights. I'm pretty sure Bas is too linked into the HDNet stuff, but what's Quadros doing lately?