MMA 11 - Beatdown after the BELL!

[childe roland]

i would never refer to silva as a can. i don't however believe he beats cain or dos santos. Hate too say it but most of the strike force guys in that tournament probably beat brock except maybe arlovski who is just a shell of a fighter at this point

[Stego]

Hate too say it but most of the strike force guys in that tournament probably beat brock

I doubt any can. In fact, I think Mir would win that tournament easily.

[lessthanluke]

I doubt any can. In fact, I think Mir would win that tournament easily.

No. Just no.

[Ser Barry]

I doubt any can. In fact, I think Mir would win that tournament easily.

Mir is not favourite against Overeem, Barnett or Werdum. Kharitanov would have a decent chance against him. Silva would be a good fight. He mauls Rogers.

Sad to see Fedor step down from the podium but what a career.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I doubt any can. In fact, I think Mir would win that tournament easily.

http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/files/2009/09/doublefacepalm.jpg

This is just wrong on so many levels. As for your doubts than "any" can beat Brock, I seem to also remember you doubting that Cain could. How'd that work out again?

Mir is not favourite against Overeem, Barnett or Werdum. Kharitanov would have a decent chance against him. Silva would be a good fight. He mauls Rogers.

Sad to see Fedor step down from the podium but what a career.

I think Silva dummies Mir on the ground. Mir is not a top-position grappler at all, which is strange for a grappler of his size. He fights primarily off his back bc he doesn't have great takedowns, so he rarely dictates how a fight gets to the ground and against a fellow BJJ guy of Silva's size and skill, he'll likely spend the whole thing on his back. On the feet he gives up reach to Bigfoot. Alot. It's not a favorable matchup for Mir, it will look alot like the Lesnar fight only Silva will probably try to finish with an arm triangle or a north/south choke. He may or may not get one, but it will be enough to win a decision and carve up Mir's weaknesses.

As for Fedor, I always thought that he could lose to Silva, just not like it went down. Ironically I had picked Overeem to win this tourny and I felt that he would be the one to beat Fedor in just this manner. In fact I didn't think that Overeem would let it out of the first round. Now it looks like a fight with Silva might be a bit tougher for the Reem. But Overeem still punks him on the feet and won't be taken down and held easily at all. Silva's chances of stopping 'Reem on the ground aren't as good as 'Reem's is of stopping it with knees and punches. I'm jumping the gun a bit but I am psyched for this matchup. SF has to hope that 'Reem takes it all the way bc he's the last marketable commodity they have.

Breen hit it on the head again last night, SF makes money, they aren't even close to going out of business. What they are struggling at is moving to that next level, breaking into the ppv biz and becoming a true competitor to the UFC. Even TNA gets on ppv. At least I assume that they do.

[childe roland]

I doubt any can. In fact, I think Mir would win that tournament easily.

until brock learns how to react to get hit i don't consider him a favorite against silva or reem maybe even barnett but will admit not as familiar with him

[Stego]

Overeem is overrated. Silva is just not very good at all. He got destroyed in his last fight by Mike Kyle and barely pulled out the win. Barnett is a joke. He's got 3 losses to Cro Cop. Sean Sherk calls him a steroid abuser.

And the lack of respect for Mir is just silly to me.

I genuinely believe there are 5 heavyweights in the UFC that are superior to everyone in that tournament. Cain, Dos Santos, Brock, Mir, and Carwin. Nogueira has to be considered too.

With Fedor out so quick, this tournament is just a who's who of has-beens and never-weres.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Overeem is overrated. Silva is just not very good at all. He got destroyed in his last fight by Mike Kyle and barely pulled out the win. Barnett is a joke. He's got 3 losses to Cro Cop. Sean Sherk calls him a steroid abuser.

And the lack of respect for Mir is just silly to me.

I genuinely believe there are 5 heavyweights in the UFC that are superior to everyone in that tournament. Cain, Dos Santos, Brock, Mir, and Carwin. Nogueira has to be considered too.

With Fedor out so quick, this tournament is just a who's who of has-beens and never-weres.

Your judgement on heavyweights is flawed then. I'll leave it at that. I'll pick this entire argument apart in detail when I've had some sleep.

[Stego]

Your judgement on heavyweights is flawed then.

Nope. The standard judgment of most folks is. I hope the winner of this tournament gets to fight in the men's division at some point so I can be proven right.

(Hate Dana or love him, he has collected the best heavyweight division the sport has ever seen.)

[BigFatCoward]

how can you think brock (hates getting punched in the face as much as any fighter i have ever seen) could live with overeem?

i think because you are a big man you like to think size is the be all and end all, but time and time again this has proved to be untrue.

[Commodore]

Nope. The standard judgment of most folks is. I hope the winner of this tournament gets to fight in the men's division at some point so I can be proven right.

(Hate Dana or love him, he has collected the best heavyweight division the sport has ever seen.)

Horus, I think you're lacking a bit of understanding in the difference in strength levels. Cain is a strong guy by normal standards, I suppose. I know he's quick and has good punching power.

That said, he's not strong enough. He will get tossed about. There is a bigger advantage for Brock over Cain than there is for GSP over BJ, if BJ fought at his normal fighting weight. 22lbs of muscle, at least.

That's more than the difference between 185 and 205. It's ridiculous. Cain has a punchers chance of knocking him out, but that is absolutely it. Folks need to understand that these weights are not all fat like they were back in the day. Brock is genuinely beastly. He does 100 dead hang pullups at 270lbs. As a 260lb man who works out in the gym every day, I can't possibly express to you how many pullups that would be for a 190lb man. A thousand? A trillion? I have no fucking idea. He's deadly strong.

Clearly it wasn't a "puncher's chance" knockout that won it for Cain. He overpowered Brock into a stoppage.

Anyone who thinks they know how Brock would do against Overeem is blowing smoke imo, at the highest level you just don't know until they get into the ring.

Lots of experts had Belfort.

[Ken Stone]

If Strikeforce ever gains some traction UFC better watch out. None of those fights went to decision. Not sure what the SF guys are doing but the fighters get after it.

'Reem vs Lesnar would be a fun fight, but I don't see Lesnar making it out of the first round. Lesnar's big ol' melon would just be to big a target when he changed levels for a double leg.

[Stego]

Lots of experts had Belfort.

No expert worth listening to would bet against Silva.

ETA: also, I agree with you, Ken. The second fight of the night was one of the best fights I've seen in a long time.

[Grayscale]

If Strikeforce ever gains some traction UFC better watch out. None of those fights went to decision. Not sure what the SF guys are doing but the fighters get after it.

The reason for that is poor matchmaking. You get alot more mismatches in SF thus leading to more finishes. Compare the betting lines for a SF card vs a UFC card, you'll notice the spread is much closer with the UFC's more balanced matching.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Clearly it wasn't a "puncher's chance" knockout that won it for Cain. He overpowered Brock into a stoppage.

Anyone who thinks they know how Brock would do against Overeem is blowing smoke imo, at the highest level you just don't know until they get into the ring.

Lots of experts had Belfort.

I have to agree with Stego on the point about Belfort. Truthfully, however, most experts (at least around 75-80%) still went with Silva. If there were any waverers, it was bc of the Sonnen fight, and if that was what threw them, then they probably thought that Belfort was going to channel his Pride self and become once-again the quasi-wrestler that he was there and just go for double-legs constantly bc that is the only way that he could have won. Anyone who thinks that Silva can be realistically outstruck, without breaking it up with some good gnp, is kidding themselves.

However, I can very easily pick Overeem over Brock, bc I still think Reem is way too experienced and well-rounded and has comparable physical attributes. Brock simply has too many holes. Stego is just absurdly wrong when it comes to talking about HWs. You were wrong about Lesnar and you're wrong about this too.

Best HW division ever? Perhaps for them. HW MMA has never been great. It's hard to find great athletes that are that heavy, usually you just find a bunch of really strong guys who are somewhat coordinated. HWs now are better than ever, I agree with that, but it's not just the UFC. On both sides I like Junior, Cain, Reem and Silva. Those are the guys who have shown multiple dimensions to their skills, dynamic athleticism and stamina, and all have bright futures. Everyone else is either past thier primes, or way too one-dimensional to be relevant. In general, HWs are garbage. There's a reason why Overeem was able to put on muscle, stop cutting weight and instantly become one of the most versatile athletes in the division. LHWs are much more talented. Tim Sylvia was once a champ for Christ's sake.

I like you, you're a cool cat,... but you're just wrong.

[Mme Erzulie]

So how does one go about watching old fights? Are they available somewhere legally? (I live in the UK, by the way)

[GSP]

"if you retire after 2 losses u are a pussy. sry to break it to u about 12 hours ago via web"

Twitters the tough man who's never been in even an amateur MMA bout, win, lose, or draw. Pull your head out of your ass Dana. There has been talk of Fedor moving on to other things for years now, for long before he lost to Werdun. A couple of losses later, he decides he's just not into trying to make a big dominant run again. What's so 'pussy' about that? A guy can retire any time he wants. There was nothing pussy about Fedor in any of his fights, wins or losses. Everyone would probably have rather seen Lidell retire after two losses when his dominant run came to an end. Instead we got to see him asleep on the canvas again, and again, and again .....

[Stego]

I have all the respect in the world for Fedor. He is one of the best fighters the sport has ever seen, and also one of the best characters. I have boundless respect for how tough the man is.

That said, you can't really blame Dana for being overjoyed that he's out of the sport. You can't blame him for being thrilled that M1 is done. Is he being a douche? Yeah. But Strikeforce had two claims to fame over the UFC: Gina Carano's sexy ass and Fedor. Carano got demolished and Fedor retired. Cyborg and Big Foot will never be the same sort of draws.

[HP Loveshaft]

"if you retire after 2 losses u are a pussy. sry to break it to u about 12 hours ago via web"

Twitters the tough man who's never been in even an amateur MMA bout, win, lose, or draw. Pull your head out of your ass Dana. There has been talk of Fedor moving on to other things for years now, for long before he lost to Werdun. A couple of losses later, he decides he's just not into trying to make a big dominant run again. What's so 'pussy' about that? A guy can retire any time he wants. There was nothing pussy about Fedor in any of his fights, wins or losses. Everyone would probably have rather seen Lidell retire after two losses when his dominant run came to an end. Instead we got to see him asleep on the canvas again, and again, and again .....

I think that was Brett Rogers actually.

http://twitter.com/thegrimrogers/status/36674736184360960

[Horus Ex Machina]

Testosterone doesn't make you get bigger, food does.

QFT. I missed this earlier. :thumbsup: