UK Politics VIII

[MinDonner]

the causes (high population growth, lack of space, demographic shifts, concentration of employment opportunities)

???

Did you forget "housing bubble wilfully inflated by easy credit and the subsequent rise of BTL investors, now propped up indefinitely by governments lest the wrath of the Daily Express destroy us all"?

[Zoë Sumra]

Nevertheless I suppose one shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we have something of a housing crisis which causes the high rents in the first place. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like the government can do anything about it.

Yes, it can.

1) Reimpose rent controls. Unpopular with landlords, who'd lose part of their income stream.

2) Drastically alter the planning system to make it easier to build lots more houses. Unpopular with homeowners, as increasing supply would be likely to decrease prices.

That's just two simple measures - simple, but politically difficult - that I can think of off the top of my head.

[MinDonner]

Higher taxes on second home owners?

[Hereward]

Higher taxes on second home owners?

I am an enthusiastic supporter of that one.

[mormont]

I think it's fair to say that there are many things that the government could do about the housing crisis, but absolutely none that any of the mainstream political parties is willing to do or even to talk about. Housing is one of the most serious issues in the country at the moment, but trying to get a party frontbencher even to mention it during the election campaign was like getting blood from a stone.

[Eurytus]

Higher taxes on second home owners?

Yeah lets punish people for having saved hard.

[Hereward]

We already do that. This is punishing people who currently get tax breaks for leaving houses empty, destroying village life, and, most importantly, contributing greatly to the closure of pubs. Personally, I think hanging's too good for them.

[Eurytus]

We already do that. This is punishing people who currently get tax breaks for leaving houses empty, destroying village life, and, most importantly, contributing greatly to the closure of pubs. Personally, I think hanging's too good for them.

So everyone who buys a second property buys them in villages and leaves them empty huh?

[VarysTheSpider]

Did you forget "housing bubble wilfully inflated by easy credit and the subsequent rise of BTL investors, now propped up indefinitely by governments lest the wrath of the Daily Express destroy us all"?

I was kind of thinking of things that make it a particular problem for London.

That's just two simple measures - simple, but politically difficult - that I can think of off the top of my head.

I don't know, bringing in a new regulatory framework and overhauling an existing one sound quite complicated to me. Not to mention risky and expensive.

ETA - I say risky because I think rent controls could easily make the supply worse by leading to a reduced number of houses available and in a more delapidated state.

[MinDonner]

So everyone who buys a second property buys them in villages and leaves them empty huh?

No, some of them rent them out to the younger generation at the now-inflated "market value", while getting their mortgage interest paid for by the taxpayers, meaning that no-one else gets a chance to save either. *nods*

[Eurytus]

No, some of them rent them out to the younger generation at the now-inflated "market value", while getting their mortgage interest paid for by the taxpayers, meaning that no-one else gets a chance to save either. *nods*

Ah so its collective punishment you want huh?

Nice.

The politics of envy.

I'm just about ready to buy my second property now. The first one I made a LOT of sacrifices to pay off that mortgage early. All of which I did whilst living in the property. Why the hell should I be taxed more because I chose to invest my money into my property rather than fritter it away on luxuries?

[ljkeane]

Why the hell should I be taxed more because I chose to invest my money into my property rather than fritter it away on luxuries?

Because you purchasing a second property is of less value to society than frittering it away on luxuries.

[mormont]

Ah so its collective punishment you want huh?

Nice.

The politics of envy.

I'm just about ready to buy my second property now. The first one I made a LOT of sacrifices to pay off that mortgage early.

World's smallest violin, this is your cue.

[Eurytus]

World's smallest violin, this is your cue.

Not my problem if the people with no common sense can't afford to buy their own houses. Of course its easy for them to play the poor little match girl card by blaming their inability to manage their finances on "big bad private landlords". A common failing for those who are unable to overcome the problems that are of their own making.

Still, quite the response I would expect from a left winger, who are never so happy as when they are spending other people's money.

[Eurytus]

Because you purchasing a second property is of less value to society than frittering it away on luxuries.

Yes, its a shame that Britain sold its soul to become a service based economy with the result that the government bends over backwards to reward the people who can't manage their money. Because big spenders, even when its not their own money, are what greases the wheels of Britain's economy.

[Zoë Sumra]

Not my problem if the people with no common sense can't afford to buy their own houses.

... do you know the extent of the mismatch between pay and housing costs that's grown in the UK over the past fifteen years?

[Eurytus]

... do you know the extent of the mismatch between pay and housing costs that's grown in the UK over the past fifteen years?

If a house is priced too high it won't sell.

[ljkeane]

Yes, its a shame that Britain sold its soul to become a service based economy with the result that the government bends over backwards to reward the people who can't manage their money. Because big spenders, even when its not their own money, are what greases the wheels of Britain's economy.

Consumption is what greases the wheels of every economy, the owning of second homes on the other hand is of very little value.

[mormont]

Not my problem if the people with no common sense can't afford to buy their own houses.

Plainly, it is. At least if they then choose to tax the hell out of you for owning two. This is called 'society'. It's a concept we have where people all coexist, instead of trying to pretend that what they do has no impact on others.

It's very nice that you make a lot of money. However, please don't bother to go around trying to play the sympathy card (or any of the other silliness you're flinging around, like the 'politics of envy' barrel-scraping BS) because someone suggested that perhaps they might want to dissuade you from spending it in a way that worsens a very serious social problem. Nobody's going to buy a bar of that.

[Eurytus]

Consumption is what greases the wheels of every economy, the owning of second homes on the other hand is of very little value.

I think you'll find that its of value to the person who lives in it.