Cantabile Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I can't really think of any fantasy novels that would fit his criteria, now that I think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsputnik Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 My general response to these social conservative types is that they need to drink a tall glass of cement and harden the fuck up.I guess there are some out there who see the world in black and white and need their reading to reflect that. Fortunately, most of the rest of us are more sensible, discerning and intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep the Evicted Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I can't really think of any fantasy novels that would fit his criteria, now that I think of it.Wheel of Time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantabile Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Wheel of Time ?It'd qualify if it weren't for all the gratuitous spanking :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 Reading his comments, he seems to despise WoT, even though (as you say) it otherwise seems to fit what he wants at least to some degree. He's very strange. He promises to continue it, so I suppose we'll get a list of current authors he feels are appropriately respectful of traditional values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durckad Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Reading his comments, he seems to despise WoT, even though (as you say) it otherwise seems to fit what he wants at least to some degree. He's very strange. He promises to continue it, so I suppose we'll get a list of current authors he feel are appropriately respectful of traditional values.What are the chances Left Behind is on that list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 What, are Wheel of Time's heroes too flawed for him or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantabile Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I can't think of any other fantasy series that is more black and white than Wheel of Time, so if that doesn't do it for him I can't imagine what would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Really? You can't think of one?Wheel of Time certainly has pitch black ultimate evil, but the "good guys" are a rather desperate, contentious and not always cooperative or likable bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantabile Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It's not perfect black/whie, certainly, but what series do you think is more black/white?Also, I really hope the author of that article reads Bakker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Shannara, Sword of Truth, Eddings. That's just off the top of my head. You can probably pull out scads of shit generic fantasy that's way more black and white.Hell, I'd even say Tolkien is more black and white, though not by a ton and he puts his own particular spin on the whole thing to make it feel not generic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It's not perfect black/whie, certainly, but what series do you think is more black/white?Also, I really hope the author of that article reads Bakker.Harry Potter?Also I was just thinking the same thing about Bakker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 It's not perfect black/whie, certainly, but what series do you think is more black/white?The obvious one would be Narnia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 almost all of them college-educated liberalsThat one phrase both explains and completely invalidates Grin's whole line of argument.College education is evil and to be avoided at all costs because it breeds independant thought, and *gasp* belief in heresies like evolution and "science". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 One wonders if he's read The Hobbit recently? You know, the book in which the setup for the Battle of the Five Armies has a bunch of good people reverting to type over a pile of shiny things and this close to killing each other?nononono. this bit is perfectly black and white--it demonstrates that the role of evil races is to appear like deus ex machina so that the good races might commit genocide on the evil races instead of upon each other.the evil races are therefore the heroes of the story in offering themselves up on the sacrificial altar of the motiveless malignancy of the good races, so that the good races might live in harmony thereafter.it really reinforces traditional values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming Turkey Reborn Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 That one phrase both explains and completely invalidates Grin's whole line of argument.College education is evil and to be avoided at all costs because it breeds independant thought, and *gasp* belief in heresies like evolution and "science"."College-educated" is just another term for "communist." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spastic Plastic Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 These social conservatives are like small children. I don't know what this moron would put on his list of recommended authors, but I'll guess the whole list will consist of Tolkien, Howard and lots of Tairy Goodkind books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn is God Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Think of a Lord of the Rings where, after stringing you along for thousands of pages, all of the hobbits end up dying of cancer contracted by their proximity to the Ring, Aragorn is revealed to be a buffoonish puppet-king of no honor and false might, and Gandalf no sooner celebrates the defeat of Sauron than he executes a long-held plot to become the new Dark Lord of Middle-earth, and you have some idea of what to expect should you descend into Abercrombie’s jaded literary sewer.Holy crap, I cannot wait to read First Law trilogy!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkynJay Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Holy crap, I cannot wait to read First Law trilogy!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:You wont be sorry, i scream from Abercrombie like a 12 year old at a Justin Beiber concert. Is it dark? Yes, but i also find it to be some of the funniest writing out there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Steel Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Realism isn't a primary concern in great literature, anymore than it is in great movies like The Wizard of Oz, It's A Wonderful Life, or the best of the Leone spaghetti westerns. What matters is the qualities inherent in the authorial (or, in the case of movies, directorial) voice. Or to use another relevant example: Frank Frazetta's Conan paintings aren't realistic, either, but is that any reason to call him shallow or juvenile or somehow less compelling than an artist who paints realistic still-life stuff? Of course not -- Frazetta's work is friggin' magnificent, as good as art gets, achieving in the pictorial realm exactly what Howard accomplished in the literary realm. The guy is ignorant but he has one point that I agree with fantasy (or literature)doesn't have to be realistic to be good. I see a lot of people criticise characters or books on this website when they don't conform to their modern fantasy cliches of non black and white characters, realism and subversion. People will call one character a cliche or a Mary Sue and think that that is a valid criticism on its own, when it's not. Fantasy is fantasy. Mixing realism and fantasy works but it's not necessary. Take for example, German Expressionism, which used over the top lighting with sharp contrast between black and white colors in order to convey not only mood but themes as well. Over the top characters can be used just as aptly. Of course hating a book just because it subverts a genre is ignorant as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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