Is Robb still alive?

[MountainThatRides]

Yes, it is probably Tyrion. It must have been mentioned in one of his chapters. It might mean that they simply threw the body in the river, with no particular intent to mock Catelyn. Which in turn might imply that other corpses were also thrown in, including Robb's (keeping the head for the spikes on their walls).

I got the impression that these things were mainly rumors, though, the wolf-head etc. Something like "Word had drifted in from the Red Wedding.." Meaning, of course, that it might be exaggerated or wrong.

I don't think so. I thought it was fairly clear that the Freys disposed of Catelyn's body in a way that poked fun at how the Tullys use the river in their burial rites, i.e. the earlier funeral of Lord Hoster.

[Yarl Snow]

I don't think so. I thought it was fairly clear that the Freys disposed of Catelyn's body in a way that poked fun at how the Tullys use the river in their burial rites, i.e. the earlier funeral of Lord Hoster.

Yes, but how is it clear? As Peter pointed out, word of the Red Wedding started coming in, probably from people who were at the wedding. Otherwise, we've had no source of that.

[A Redeemed Hound]

Robb's dead, baby. Robb's dead.

[MountainThatRides]

It's clear because we know for a fact that Catelyn was thrown in a river before she washed up on the shore and was resurrected as Lady Stoneheart. Whether the Freys disposed of her that way to further humiliate her or not becomes immaterial; it's still a vicious mockery of their burial traditions, whether the Freys meant it as such or it's Tyrion's own perception.

I'm inclined to agree with the former. We have no reason to doubt that the Freys gave themselves over entirely to the Lannister cause. Walder Frey was trying to curry favor with Lord Tywin, so he sent him word of their disposal of Robb and Catelyn; being the architect of the murders and subsequent indignities, I'd say Lord Frey is a primary source. Of course there's a possibility that he lied about Catelyn, or about sewing Grey Wind's head onto Robb's corpse, but why would he? He's in the position to become the most powerful lord in the Riverlands, and he never had much love for the Tullys.

[Jons_Ghost]

Hoster Tully was given a boat to sink in with a fire arrow.... Cat was just slung in. That's what was meant as 'mockery', as far as i could see it.

[Whatever]

I got the impression that these things were mainly rumors, though, the wolf-head etc. Something like "Word had drifted in from the Red Wedding.." Meaning, of course, that it might be exaggerated or wrong.

Ok, new theory. What about UnRobb, member of the BWB? He's dead and brought back to life, and he's walking around with a wolf's head :D

[Yarl Snow]

Ok, new theory. What about UnRobb, member of the BWB? He's dead and brought back to life, and he's walking around with a wolf's head :D

Bonus points for style. However, then lady Stoneheart would probably be somewhat less vengeful.

[Whatever]

Bonus points for style. However, then lady Stoneheart would probably be somewhat less vengeful.

No, b/c robb is de facto dead: his head was cut away and now grey wind is using his body ;D

[The faceless others]

So, if UnCat needs to cover her throat to speak, how would UnRob do it? :D

Anyway, if Rob's death is confirmed and believed through hearsay, is it safe to assume that Davos is dead?

[Whatever]

So, if UnCat needs to cover her throat to speak, how would UnRob do it? :D

Awesome :D

Anyway, if Rob's death is confirmed and believed through hearsay, is it safe to assume that Davos is dead?

Okay, actually cat saw robb die, or at least being stabbed (according to crazy my theroy, robb wasn't stabbed in the heart, but cat though so); but i don't think davos is dead, it's just an hearsay (reported by a freaking frey!!). BTW, we'll have some davos POV, so we'll be sure soon (or later ;D)

[cravenravenkeeper]

The key factor is the intent used when throwing the body in the river. If they did it deliberately to mock the Tully funeral customs then it is mockingly. If they simply tossed a body in the river then its not.

To argue that Robb is alive you should follow up with a reason that the Freys and Boltons would want him to be alive. There is literally no good reason for them to have allowed Robb to live.

No reason Robb fans would like* anyway. I am a Robb fan, but I can't imagine any GRRM story where Robb is both alive and in a situation I would like.

[tybeechris]

Yup and then we find out that Reek is actually Robb ...

Man we got too much time on our hands ... if he doesn't finish Dance soon we'll be having theories explaining how King Robert didn't actually die at all and is just pretending the whole realm is at war when actually its just an elaborate mummers farce meant to make dany think the 7 kingdoms are ripe for the taking so he can lure her into striking before her dragons are ready and he can finally kill her.

'How true, way, way, way too much time on our hands. Martin spelled backwards is Nitram - where is he in the books?

[Manarius]

As much as I liked Robb, I'm fairly certain he's dead, and I really hope he stays that way.

On the other hand, I'm going to be pissed if Davos is actually dead.

[Jons_Ghost]

Davos won't be dead, George would want to shock us and have it happen in his POV.... to just hear about it doesn't feel right, and he is at White Harbour, who are Stark loyalists. So my theory is they're saying they killed him to please the Freys, Lannisters, whoever, and are secretly in league with Stannis and are infact about to hold a reunion party with Davos, Rickon and the Blackfish.

[A Redeemed Hound]

Robb is alive and will ride the Winterfell Dragon with Hodor and Ghost.

[Rodgex]

Davos won't be dead, George would want to shock us and have it happen in his POV.... to just hear about it doesn't feel right, and he is at White Harbour, who are Stark loyalists. So my theory is they're saying they killed him to please the Freys, Lannisters, whoever, and are secretly in league with Stannis and are infact about to hold a reunion party with Davos, Rickon and the Blackfish.

Well it is very unlikely that Stannis was actually killed, George R R Martin would definitely have written more about his death if he did die.

As for Robb still being alive, he lost his head which was thrown into a river, more drastic than Un-Cat who just had her throat cut open...

[Yarl Snow]

Well it is very unlikely that Stannis was actually killed, George R R Martin would definitely have written more about his death if he did die.

Last time I checked, Stannis was alive and well at the wall.. ;) Although he is half a ghost now, I grant you. Davos won't be dead either, I bet.

[Whatever]

No reason Robb fans would like* anyway. I am a Robb fan, but I can't imagine any GRRM story where Robb is both alive and in a situation I would like.

Ok, i'm not robb fan at all.

What kind of situation are you thinkin about? :evil smile:

[Swordfish]

Do you think that this might be the end of the series? The eventual replacement of every major character with zombie versions of themselves, bound by spells from before living memory to mechanistically carry out their last desires over and over in a morbid ritual for all eternity?

I wish.......

In case it hasn't been mentioned already, it's worth noting that GRRM prefers characters who are apparently dead to stay dead:

Except for all the exceptions in the book of corpses coming to life, and people who appear to be dead actually being alive(reek, maybe Davos), you're absolutely right.

So, if UnCat needs to cover her throat to speak, how would UnRob do it? :D

Sign language?

[Noroldis]

Except for all the exceptions in the book of corpses coming to life, and people who appear to be dead actually being alive(reek, maybe Davos), you're absolutely right.

The wights, Catelyn and Beric and the other "undead" are very much changed, and in many ways diminished, compared to their former selves. Contrast that with characters who return to life in other fantasy series or in comics - either they're virtually the same physically and mentally as they were when they died, at most needing a readjustment period, or they return improved like Gandalf. Reek died and was his identity was usurped by Ramsay, a very GRRM-like turn of event.

As for Davos... I'm unsure as to why you mention him. In Clash we last see him being swept toward the burning ships. His situation is certainly dire, but in that book we don't see him die, which is enough to entertain the notion that he could have survived until Storm confirms it. In Feast, we only have a report from former Stark bannerman that he's been executed. Color me skeptic. I put more faith in Aurane Waters' report that Loras Tyrell has been gravely wounded, another event we don't witness firsthand (and even then, I wouldn't be surprised to discover that Loras's wounds are much less severe than reported).