Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Xray the Enforcer

[BOOK SPOILERS] EP101 Discussion, Mark II

Recommended Posts

Someone in the last thread said they thought it weird that Sansa wouldn't have had her period yet at 13, which of all the nitpicks this surprised me the most. Sure, some girls get earlier than 13, but it's hardly unheard of I thought for a girl to still be 13 and not have it yet. Yeesh, some people will complain about anything.

One of my girlfriends back in the day didn't get hers until she was 17. 13 is the average age for getting it but there's nothing abnormal about getting it later.

And honestly, Jaime coming off as a knob? He is a knob. This is a guy who at 7 dove off a cliff. Who routinely challenges anyone to a fight and goes looking for it. Who fucks his sister. He is not the most calculating of people, and in his POV he points out that Cersei told him over and over again that he fucked up. Cersei tells that to Tyrion as well. The books in no way support the notion that Jaime was 'pushed' into pushing Bran. That's just apologist bullshit.

:agree:

Cersei was pretty horrified by what Jaime did. Jaime in no way, shape, or form blames her for his decision to murder Bran at any point that I can recall. He even brags about it to Catelyn and tells her that her seven year old child is no innocent. Jaime is solidly to blame for throwing Bran, the books spell out that it was not Cersei decision and she was not pleased by it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was great.

Harry Lloyd was surprisingly good as Viserys.

No problem with the Dany/Drogo changes.

Nudity was fine.

I always pictured Jaime cavalier about pushing Bran out the window - just like they portrayed it.

In the big picture (just like I did with Lord of the Rings) I view the series as it's own animal and try not to compare it to the books and just enjoy it on its own merit.

It says here I have only 1 post. I'm thinking dozens and dozens of brilliant posts (circa 2005) have been lost to the internet wilderness forever...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

This is my first post here so I apologize if this is not the good thread or if it was already discussed.

So here it goes: the ones we see in the prologue are not actually the Others/ the White Walkers. They are the dismembered bodies we saw in the first scenes. So I suppose they are wildlings killed by the Others and subsequently animated into wights (sorry for the spelling). And besides, if I recall correctly from the books, the wights have blue eyes, like in the episode.

what do you think ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought he was fine as I remember his earliest bits as being calm but threatening and Dany's memories telling us that he had a temper. I'm quite sure the 'waking the dragon' part will be explained with time (I don't think you have to immediately explain everything as soon as you use it) and from the previews we know that he'll have his real freak out moments.

This ties into the only thing that really bugged me about the episode. Since there wasn't too much discussiong about the Targs, it wasn't presented that dragons and Targs are linked in anway. Knowing that the Targs sigil is a dragon, and that they used to ride them adds a bit more meaning to why Viserys uses the 'wake the dragon' line, and the meaning of the dragon eggs gift. I'm pretty sure that, in the book, at least by the wedding it was established that dragons had actually existed and had been used by Targs.

In regards to the nudity, I was a bit surprised about how much there was, but thinking back to the books only the Tryion/whorehouse seen was really new. The dothraki wedding was described as a wild affair in the books, but it felt more background to what was going on with Dany than front and center like in the show. As for the twincest scene, I was a bit surprised by doggy-style at first (since in the books I remember the talk being that the dothraki style was barbaric...made me think missionary was the norm in Westeros), but I'm fine with ascribing that to artistic license to briefly hide who Jaime is with.

Overall I liked it a lot. In the short bits I was able to get a good feel for what each character's basic personality is. Given the number of characters introduced, this was an effective pilot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of things I've remebered.

The music was fucking awesome. From the preview I was a little worried it would be too quiet.

I was looking forward to the scene where Dany rides her horse and we get to see her first show of happiness and the confidence that her relationship with Drogo will give her. Shame to cut that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

This is my first post here so I apologize if this is not the good thread or if it was already discussed.

So here it goes: the ones we see in the prologue are not actually the Others/ the White Walkers. They are the dismembered bodies we saw in the first scenes. So I suppose they are wildlings killed by the Others and subsequently animated into wights (sorry for the spelling). And besides, if I recall correctly from the books, the wights have blue eyes, like in the episode.

what do you think ?

I think that what we saw killing the rangers was HBO's version of a White Walker. It moved quickly and it was smart. The Wight was that little girl resurrected. There is obviously a difference between the two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that what we saw killing the rangers was HBO's version of a White Walker. It moved quickly and it was smart. The Wight was that little girl resurrected. There is obviously a difference between the two.

It also spoke in a voice like creaking and cracking ice. Pretty sure it was their version of an Other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my post earlier I said I didn't like Harry Lloyds Viserys which wasn't really the right thing to say. What I meant was that I found it the most jarring when compared with what I already know about the character. Especially since everything else was there or there abouts what I expected.

It will probably allow for some very interesting character development since we will now hopefully get to see is rage build as the series goes on, rather than the permanently whiney boring character we got in the books

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved it - with the exception of some of the wigs. Seriously, Catelyn made such a big deal about the boys looking pretty (even Theon and Jon!), she couldn't have asked Ned to wash his hair? Ned's and Benjen's hair was so greasy in their scene together. Much, much worse than Dany's and Visery's.

Someone elsewhere mentioned that Jaime looks exactly like Prince Charming from Shrek - he does! Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is incredibly charming, I was blown away.

I was also pleasantly surpried by Emilia Clarke's performance, I thought she might be a weak link, but I thought she was incredible. I do think they managed to pull off the almost not-human Targaryen beauty with her.

So far, I'm only worried about Kit Harrington. He's gorgeous and good enough, but I'm not sure he has enough gravitas to pull off Jon's storyline. We'll see, I guess.

Question: did Robert fool around with other women in front of Cersei? I know he never tried to hide his whoring or his bastards from her, but it's quite a different thing to do it in front of her. I dunno, I don't remember him doing that in the books and it bothered me. Not that it's too out there, but it's so disrespectful, like it or not, she's his Queen (even if she fucked Jaime at least once right next to Robert, I think it was her way of getting some revenge from years of abuse and neglect).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And more things that I didn't pick up before:

  • The White Walker who beheads Gared is wielding a huge icicle as a sword. It's most visible in the brief shot where he grabs the top of Gared's head. After he beheads him you can see the entire length of the sword, but the closeup is very well done.
  • Other people have mentioned it, but the sun/compass/orrery in the introduction depicts the Targaryens arriving, the stag/lion/direwolf rebelling, and then the stag ruling.
  • Also noted by others, the names in the title sequence have icons associating them with their Houses. However, I don't think anyone's pointed this out yet -- they put Dany, Sansa and Jorah in the wrong houses! They've got the direwolf icon next to Sean Bean, the stag next to Mark Addy, the lion for NCW, the direwolf for Michelle Fairley, and so on, until Emilia Clarke shows up as a Lannister, Iain Glen also as a Lannister, and Sophie Turner is labeled as a Targaryen, same as Harry Lloyd.

In episode 2F09, when Itchy plays Scratchy's skeleton like a xylophone, he strikes the same rib twice in succession, yet he produces two clearly different tones. I mean, what are we to believe, that this is some sort of a magic xylophone or something? Boy, I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question: did Robert fool around with other women in front of Cersei? I know he never tried to hide his whoring or his bastards from her, but it's quite a different thing to do it in front of her. I dunno, I don't remember him doing that in the books and it bothered me.

This is the guy who screwed a girl in his brother's wedding bed on his brother's wedding night before his brother and his brother's bride had the opportunity to use it. I don't remember offhand if Robert was actually fooling with women in front of Cersei's face in the books, but it seems to completely jive with his characterization.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people are giving Cersei much to much credit in her later anger at Jaime for tossing Bran. My take on it was at that moment she was 100 percent on board with his attempt to kill him. Only later, after Bran lives does she fault Jaime. This is classic Cersei. It's exactly how she has controlled Jaime thru-out their life. By being the "smart" one. Her later accusations ring hollow. There was no way she was going to "scare" Bran into silence. She was going to leave Winterfell shortly anyway. I don't really believe she would have scared him into being silent even for the remainder of her stay.

The proposition that her word would have been taken over that of a 7/10 yr old is based on what ? A child describing a sex act he really had never seen between people before. He's making it up ? Every titled male in Winterfell is at the hunt, but Jaime ?

What Cersei knows they have to fear is even the accusation. She knows Jaime's impulse to kill Bran was what she wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm not mistaken, girls have been getting their periods earlier and earlier in the past century, so I believe Sansa being 13 and not having had it yet wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for a medieval-era girl.

Of course it's a fictional world regardless, so maybe menstrual cycles are delayed in Westeros!

The irony of course is that in the books Sansa gets her moon blood at the age of...13!

I don't really think it was necessary to bring the whole first blood thing into the TV show. It's enough for "tradition" to dictate that marrigae doesn't happen until the age of 15 or 16 as reason enough for Sansa and Joff to have a long engagement. Then coming into marriagable age after she's cast aside still allows for the dread of her impending nuptial to weigh heavily on her, and for the impatience to get her wedded and bound to the Lannister house to occupy Tywin's mind a little.

Wights don't use swords, they're zombies. So anything with fluoro blue eyes beyond the wall that uses a sword is an Other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Viserys was too nice and not crazy enough, compared to the book but well played anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think people are giving Cersei much to much credit in her later anger at Jaime for tossing Bran. My take on it was at that moment she was 100 percent on board with his attempt to kill him. Only later, after Bran lives does she fault Jaime. This is classic Cersei. It's exactly how she has controlled Jaime thru-out their life. By being the "smart" one. Her later accusations ring hollow...

What Cersei knows they have to fear is even the accusation. She knows Jaime's impulse to kill Bran was what she wanted.

This :agree:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really think it was necessary to bring the whole first blood thing into the TV show. It's enough for "tradition" to dictate that marrigae doesn't happen until the age of 15 or 16 as reason enough for Sansa and Joff to have a long engagement.

But it can be put to good use later in her horror of discovering that she's started her period because it means she can be married off. I think that's more effective than having her be dreading her 15th birthday. Also ties in with how rushed the marriage is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd seen probably half the episode from teasers, so I was already on board, but a few things popped out at me:

- Kit Harington. It's hard to do a character like Jon Snow without coming off as whiny or petulant (I'm looking at you, Hayden Christensen!), but I think he does it deftly and believably. He's got to carry a lot of plot and I think he's more than up for it.

- "The things I do for love." I liked NCW for most of the episode, basically up until that line. I'm not particularly nitpicky about the rest, but I felt his delivery there was dead wrong. I think even Jaime would treat the situation with a bit more levity. He might even look a little rueful while defenestrating Bran. But his attitude was more along the lines of, "Heh, one moment, gotta push a kid out the window." The act itself is pretty hateful, but with that attitude, I think it's going to be difficult to ever make Jaime a likeable character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Only later, after Bran lives does she fault Jaime.
I believe that Jaime remarks she criticizes him as soon as it happens. There's not a whole lot of time for them to talk about it, anyway. Between Winterfell and KL, and that's about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I really appreciated was this - the Michael Komarck art of Ned at the Godswood.

Him at the Godswood was the single most striking image for me last night, and one of the reasons was that they, as far as I can tell, completely used Komarck's work as the inspiration for it. It was great seeing him polish the sword in this peaceful area, and I felt like I got more from Sean Bean on who Ned is right then than almost any other time.

Plus it looked great.

Funny, my husband (who never read the novels or is aware of the artworks)- thought that the Godswood scene was a bit fan fantasy cartoonish (his words). I loved it but can see his point, but he thought it looked like an obvious set.

Someone that I feel deserves praise, but hasn't quite gotten enough, is Sophie Turner as Sansa. I think she is just spot on with her character.

Agreed, I never liked the Sansa character but think Sophie already brought out much more than expected. The moment when Cersei asks if she got her period yet, the look on Sophie's/Sansa's face was priceless. She has a hard character to portray, so she probably wont be getting the adulation that Maise Williams or Issac Hempstead Wright may get.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved this! It was mostly as awesome as I expected it to be. Can't wait for the next episode!

Some random observations:

  • Loved the opening credits. Very creative and informative for those viewers not familiar with the geography of this world. I understand they will be different for each episode, travelling to the parts shown in that particular episode.
  • Sean Bean is Eddard Stark. I'm not that sold on Michelle Fairley as Catelyn. Not to sound crass, but I imagined she would be more beautiful.
  • Emilia Clarke as Dany! Yowza! I sure didn't mind the nudity, it showed her vulnerability (as well as her bum). Stunning girl! Heck, even Sansa was quite pretty, and now I feel like a dirty middle-aged man...
  • All the Stark kid actors were good, even if we didn't see much of them all yet. Especially Bran stood out. I think Arya will be great too.
  • I do wonder how they'll do the direwolves when they grow up. The CGI might look hokey. Or they can use clever camera angles with ordinary dogs, like they did in LotR. There is a promo pic with Sansa and Lady where her direwolf is plainly an ordinary sized dog. And how will Dany's CGI dragons look?
  • Peter Dinklage's Tyrion was also very good, even if I like him better when he's being clever and not just whoring around.
  • Somehow I had imagined Winterfell to be bigger and not so primitive with dirt floors and stuff.
  • I was not completely sold on the Dothraki scenes, which didn't feel as impressive as I had imagined.
  • They obviously took some liberties with the story, like the Jaime/Cersei scene in King's Landing or the Tyrion/Jaime/whores scene.
  • I wonder how newbies will feel about all the new information being dumped here. Will they feel excited about this new world and its history or will they be just confused?
  • The snow in the beginning didn't look quite real to me.
  • There was a problem with not naming some of the characters, like Theon Greyjoy or Rodrik Cassel, although sometimes when they did it felt forced (albeit necessary for new viewers).
  • The last scene; Somehow I never pictured them doing it doggy style!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×