[BOOK SPOILERS] EP101 Discussion, Mark II

[The Anti-Targ]

How nerdy is it for me to want to watch this every night until episode 2, And then do the same with episode 2 until episode 3, and so on?

Announce season 2 already damnit!!

[jefe91]

Did anyone else notice that ghost had red eyes, thought that was cool

[silkymoonshine]

I think having Robert diddle a serving wench in front of the whole room is part of the directors' efforts at showing that, while he may be a sympathetic character and a "good guy", he does have some major flaws - which go a long way toward giving Cersei reason to feel the way she does about him.

Can't wait to see him "honor" her when he visits broken-legged Ned. That'll go even further.

I agree that it's probably why it was done, but it bothered me. :dunno: There's a difference between him doing and everyone including Cersei knowing and him doing it front of her and everyone else. More than that, I don't see Cersei letting him do that to him. Someone in the book vs tv show said much better than I could why she wouldn't let him.

Eponine, so far, I like the characters as much I liked them in this point of the series (except for Jaime). I only started liking Jon when he got more involved in the Night's Watch and not so sullen and 'woe is me, I'm a bastard' and I thought Sansa was annoying and boring in the first book. I think Sansa is being portrayed just like in the book, if a little bit more boy crazy. Was it me or did she give Jaime an appraising look? Maybe he was in the same direction as Joffrey, but I think she did it and I LOLed. Can't wait to see her reaction to Ser Loras.

[DemiNymph]

Managed to procure it. *ahem*

Peter Dinklage is so going to get an Emmy for this show. Love his Tyrion. He'd better get nominated and win!

I don't have much complaints about the show except for where they let the casual viewer have the impression that The Other let Will live. That doesn't make sense at all.

And Catelyn. No offence but I thought she'd be younger and better looking. This actress look too haggard, more like post disaster Bran Catelyn after she'd had her mental breakdown. It's no big deal thou, that's only for the first episode, she can look like this for the rest of the episodes and it will look right. But the kid who plays Arya does look like her. While Sansa doesn't. Oh well, I shan't quibble.

Bran is just stellar. Sean Bean is his usual self, great acting. He should shampoo his hair and not try to do an impression of Professor Snape. I suppose it is too late now.

Loving Robert, Cersei and Jamie.

Not so sure about Jon for now, kinda dislike his stupid curly hair.

Dany's bedding scene is just brutal even when I know it turned out for the best. For a modern woman, it is just hard to watch this sort of thing happening. Drogo is hot.

[ZombieWife]

- The music. Obviously a matter of opinion (i.e., some people didn't like it at all). The main theme is rousing and atmospheric without being over the top. The bit at the end as Bran made his climb was very well done. But what really got me was the bombastic piece that accompanied Robert's entourage into Winterfell. Wow! That got the juices flowing.

- The opening titles. Put me firmly on the side that found the credits brilliantly executed and fascinating to watch. I was mesmerized.

As a music AND opening titles NERD, I am in full agreement with you. I loved Carnivale's opening theme. Loved Rome's. Loved this. (Think they're done by the same artistic team.)

The music was really spectacular, imho. I want the soundtrack NOW.

[thorny throne]

I was watching with my 16 years old brother (I'm 29) and my dad, and at some point, I realized that dissecting Jaime and Cercei's fucking with them was a bit odd.

Anyway, we were all in agreement that it was a bit too much fucking, and bit too less desperate love-making as I've envisioned it. I think it is highly important to show how desperately in love they were in one another, and right now - you really don't get why they sleep together. Their union is maybe the driving force of the first book, everything that happened - Bran, Robert's death, Ned's death - happened because of that. This need to be important enough for them to risk everything for, I didn't get that yet, nor did Jaime convey his sick love and devotion for Cercei yet. Hopefully that would change.

[The Anti-Targ]

Managed to procure it. *ahem*

Peter Dinklage is so going to get an Emmy for this show. Love his Tyrion. He'd better get nominated and win!

I don't have much complaints about the show except for where they let the casual viewer have the impression that The Other let Will live. That doesn't make sense at all.

And Catelyn. No offence but I thought she'd be younger and better looking. This actress look too haggard, more like post disaster Bran Catelyn after she'd had her mental breakdown. It's no big deal thou, that's only for the first episode, she can look like this for the rest of the episodes and it will look right. But the kid who plays Arya does look like her. While Sansa doesn't. Oh well, I shan't quibble.

Bran is just stellar. Sean Bean is his usual self, great acting. He should shampoo his hair and not try to do an impression of Professor Snape. I suppose it is too late now.

Loving Robert, Cersei and Jamie.

Not so sure about Jon for now, kinda dislike his stupid curly hair.

Dany's bedding scene is just brutal even when I know it turned out for the best. For a modern woman, it is just hard to watch this sort of thing happening. Drogo is hot.

Catelyn is an attractive woman who is of an age with Ned. They didn't have plastic surgery back then so I guess people have forgotten what real women look like in their late 40's / early 50's; especially post 5 kids and having to live with your husband's bastard child. She works for me.

Will's desertion would be totally unbelievable if he hadn't seen a White Walker with his own eyes. And for him to be able to claim to have seen a white walker he'd need to be close enough that the only way he could realistically escape would be for them to let him go. It's the arrogance of an enemy who believes they are unstoppable, they don't care if their presence is known to the whole world, in fact they like it better that way. It also shows the White Walkers aren't mindless zombies, they are capable of thinking strategically and tactically. So the threat beyond the wall isn't just some generic zombie horror thing.

[Eponine]

I think it is highly important to show how desperately in love they were in one another, and right now - you really don't get why they sleep together. Their union is maybe the driving force of the first book, everything that happened - Bran, Robert's death, Ned's death - happened because of that. This need to be important enough for them to risk everything for, I didn't get that yet, nor did Jaime convey his sick love and devotion for Cercei yet. Hopefully that would change.

Totally agree with this. Didn't like how Jaime/Cersei sex was portrayed as rather impersonal, although I understand the reasons for filming it the way they did.

[Ser_Pounce]

Well I loved it. Sure, after watching the first episode three times there are things I could criticize such as the dry-humping and "three stooges" style fighting of the Dothraki wedding, but I'm unconvinced that there's any show that would hold up to that kind of scrutiny. The acting and set/costume design was amazing; the structure of the storytelling is really hard to judge given that I know the books quite well, but it seemed effective.

I'm also extremely optimistic that it's just going to get better. ASOIAF is ultimately a character drama, and all the major actors have nailed their parts. Some unconvincing extras aren't going to impact the experience for the vast majority of viewers who will be focusing on the dialog between the main characters.

I do understand what some people have said about it feeling more like an extravagant piece of fan art than a new experience. One can only get so "pulled into the story" when you already know what's going to happen. I think later episodes will be a bit more engaging in this regard as the actors start to explore and develop the characters. We know *what* is going to happen, but the emotional journey of the characters can still be new and exciting. The same way I can still greatly enjoy a good production of MacBeth despite having both read and seen many times.

[edit] One character in particular I'm really looking forward to seeing develop is Tyrion. Dinklage really seems to be both nailing the character of Tyrion and at the same time doing his own Tyrion. Should be exciting and fun stuff to watch!

[Lord Godric]

I thought I should write a formal review of this. So I shall:

I am never the person to judge a book against it's film/tv adaptation because I just have accepted the fact that the film/show is NOT the book and can never be. So minor changes do not bother me in the slightest. I am not looking for the books exact, if I was I'd just read the books or listen to the audiobooks. With that said, even though I am this type of viewer, I found very little wrong with the first episode. I thought it set the stage fantastically for the rest of the season, and now that the informative episode is out of the way, I look forward to the action and intrigue ones.

The things I loved:

- The Stark children (with the exception of Sansa) all were exactly how I imagined them and the actors really seem to understand their characters. Arya and Bran particularly were fantastic.

- Harry Lloyd as Viserys was the unexpected star for me. He portrayed Viserys to near perfection. The creepy incestuous relationship as well as the desperate deposed king willing to sell his own flesh and blood for his throne. He effectively portrayed that character, and I think many people will cheer when he is killed.

- Speaking of cheering at character deaths, Joffrey has said nothing yet, but he certainly looks like the smug little prat that Joffrey is supposed to be. I can't wait to cheer at his death too.

- Tyrion and Jaime Lannister's characters were fantastic. I expected to like Peter Dinklage as Tyrion and he did not let me down. And I find myself liking Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Jaime. He definitely captures the flippant, careless aspect of Jaime. Lets hope he can pull off badass fighting Jaime too. The "things I do for love" scene was amazing. I loved Cersei's panic and Jaime just be chill about it saying "I heard you the first time" and judging the situation and then just carelessly pushing Bran out the window without looking.

The only thing I didn't like:

- Sansa. Watching her scenes were a little painful. The scene with her, Cersei and Catelyn was probably my least favorite of the show. I hope Sophie Turner does a better job with Sansa in the later episode.

[Ser Greguh]

Totally agree with this. Didn't like how Jaime/Cersei sex was portrayed as rather impersonal, although I understand the reasons for filming it the way they did.

I actually thought it was entirely appropriate for what that particular sex was supposed to be, a stolen quickie in an unfamiliar, semi-dangerous setting. It's probably not the best way to communicate that the two are actually quite intimate and in many ways see each other as their one-and-only, but that's information that can be imparted later, and isn't contradicted by the scene (many loving couples will of course very often have sex that approximates impersonality). The mechanics of what position they were in, I have to personally say, don't particularly concern me.

[TheEvilKing]

And I find myself liking Nikolaj Coster-Waldau as Jaime. He definitely captures the flippant, careless aspect of Jaime. Lets hope he can pull off badass fighting Jaime too. The "things I do for love" scene was amazing. I loved Cersei's panic and Jaime just be chill about it saying "I heard you the first time" and judging the situation and then just carelessly pushing Bran out the window without looking.

I'm not completely sold on NCW yet. He has the arrogance and carelessness down, and you can tell he's lethal, but he just doesn't seem as charismatic as Jaime. Nor did I like his delivery of that infamous line.

Also, Bran's fall looked so fake. I was thinking they'd show him lying on the ground, his legs twisted at some kinda fucked up angles, Summer howling. The ending was really abrupt.

[Jon of the Wall]

I think what many of the race-baiters on this board are missing with regard to the Dothraki is that, while there may be a certain overall look to a Dothraki, they absorb the races of the people they conquer. If I recall, any of the women that they do not kill are taken in as slaves. This would lead to a lot of different colored people running around.

I really don't think it is a case of "any darkie will do".

[DemonKing]

Saw a great comment from a non-reader on another forum that had me LOLing:

So what I gathered plot wise: Sean Bean is busy being cold blooded cool in the north. Has a few kids. Some bro is killed by incestuous brother and sister (who is married to some guy) they go up to ask Sean Bean about being their right hand man. Meanwhile, two grown up kids from Village of the Damned get fucked by a large Mortal Kombat character in order to attack some kingdom.

Is this right?

Overall, I thought they did a good job - although how the hell that Black Brother from the intro managed to get away from the Others to be beheaded by Ned Stark I'll never know.

Also, I always envisaged the tower Bran was thrown from being a bit higher up than it was.

[kn32]

Saw a great comment from a non-reader on another forum that had me LOLing:

So what I gathered plot wise: Sean Bean is busy being cold blooded cool in the north. Has a few kids. Some bro is killed by incestuous brother and sister (who is married to some guy) they go up to ask Sean Bean about being their right hand man. Meanwhile, two grown up kids from Village of the Damned get fucked by a large Mortal Kombat character in order to attack some kingdom.

Is this right?

Overall, I thought they did a good job - although how the hell that Black Brother from the intro managed to get away from the Others to be beheaded by Ned Stark I'll never know.

Also, I always envisaged the tower Bran was thrown from being a bit higher up than it was.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Can we start a movement to get that stuck on the back cover of all new editions of GoT, please? I think I could die happy if that happens.

+ Viserys stands out more and more as the most impressive character on screen with each additional viewing. If the Khal had different sexual tastes, then Viserys could be the one getting fucked by a large mortal kombat character and play a larger role.

[Joy Angels]

Hi there.

I loved it. Wonderful adaptation, almost perfect, amazing experience. The little differences don't bother me - for example the Targaryen's eyes, Jon's curly hair, even the overaged Catelyn. I think everything was just fine but the Dothraki line - I feel them like a really big disappointment. I've expected to see some kind of Mongol-Tatar horde, but saw an authentic Zulu tribe. There are enough races in the book - the people in the Summer Islands are black, those in Westeros are white, the Dothraki are like Mongols/Tatars/Native Americans, those in Penthos and in Dorn have to be mediterranean type... And Khal Drogo didn't rape his young wife after the wedding. Quite disturbing, I think. :/

[kn32]

Hi there.

I loved it. Wonderful adaptation, almost perfect, amazing experience. The little differences don't bother me - for example the Targaryen's eyes, Jon's curly hair, even the overaged Catelyn. I think everything was just fine but the Dothraki line - I feel them like a really big disappointment. I've expected to see some kind of Mongol-Tatar horde, but saw an authentic Zulu tribe. There are enough races in the book - the people in the Summer Islands are black, those in Westeros are white, the Dothraki are like Mongols/Tatars/Native Americans, those in Penthos and in Dorn have to be mediterranean type... And Khal Drogo didn't rape his young wife after the wedding. Quite disturbing, I think. :/

You're definitely not alone with your listed disappointments, especially the dany/drogo consummation scene. It's been the most hotly debated change, so much so that it needed its own thread.

Personally, I didn't mind the change. He wasn't exactly brutal with her, you could see attempts on his part to soothe and comfort her. So he wasn't the utter monster you could imagine a man of his type and position being, but he did force his way with her in the end.

I don't think the audience, especially the females, will ever warm up much to the Khal, but I can definitely see reasons why Dany will, despite the rape.

Welcome to the board, btw. Hope you stick around and continue sharing :)

[CloudFlare]

I just rewatched the ep for the third time. I liked it way better and there were some awesome details I didn't notice at first. For example, when the Others are chasing our two rangers in the woods, the whole time you can hear the sound of ice cracking and popping (not that I imagine the Others would be carrying on a conversation, but associating the ice cracking with them at the start was a neat detail). Also, I loved that the Silent Sisters had halos made of the seven-sided star, and their incense burners were in the shape of the seven sided star, too. Coolness.

I think the cracking sounds were the Others talking or yelling to each other as they hunt down Will and Gared. In the books Will describes their voices as something like harsh breaking or cracking ice and glass.

"Yo, Bob! Which one should we decapitate and which one should we let go south?"

ETA: I want to be pillow slave to Emilia Clarke and Lena Heady.

[kn32]

I think the cracking sounds were the Others talking or yelling to each other as they hunt down Will and Gared. In the books Will describes their voices as something like harsh breaking or cracking ice and glass.

"Yo, Bob! Which one should we decapitate and which one should we let go south?"

If you look closely, you can also see that the Other has a crystal sword. That's one detail about them that got through from the books. Best shot to see it is when Gared is decapitated.

[Sir Thursday]

Hmm, I really shouldn't have done all the feverish anticipation I've been doing for the last year and a half - definitely felt a bit of a let down watching this. Perhaps it was that I had already seen so much of the pilot through the preview clips and such that there wasn't very much new stuff to see, but this didn't feel quite as gripping as I'd hoped. I still enjoyed it, I guess, but not as much as I was expecting. Specifically, my gripes are these:

1) The opening sequence was too long. We had what, 7-8 minutes of beyond the Wall stuff? Now, I appreciate that with the lack of action in this episode there was a need for something like this to kick things off, but this first episode needed to be as introductory as it possibly could. Would have preferred them to cut a couple of minutes off it if it would have given them more time to spend on fleshing out the characters a bit more. That time could have been better spent giving us a chance to meet Joffrey/The Hound, for example. They might have been able to squeeze in the duelling scene (although I'm not sure whether that would still work given how they've aged up the actors...).

2) NCW can't do a British accent properly. Throughout, there was an obvious (to my ear, anyway) Danish twang to it that prevented me from enjoying his scenes all that much. It also felt like he mis-delivered some pretty critical lines - "or is it the other way round?" was mumbled slightly, so that it didn't have the humourous effect it could have had, and I'm pretty sure they could have done "the things I do for love" better. There was no wist or wonder or regret or surprise or any emotion, really. And without that, the line doesn't make any sense. I always read it as Jaime having a mixture of surprise and resignation as he realised just how far he was willing to go for Cersei, but none of that was conveyed by NCW's delivery.

3) The Hound doesn't really get shown as a proper character. They had that nice little conversation between Sandor and Tyrion before the hunting party leaves, but there was no way to link that conversation with the guy in the awesome suit of armour, because we never really got a close up of him in either scene. Until someone else mentioned it on the 'net afterwards, I didn't even realise who it was telling Tyrion his conquests didn't count. I think that's a bit of a shame - by not linking the two together (and unless a non-reader was watching this with someone who had read the books, I don't see how any of them would realise), people will not remember him from this ep. Just look at the recaps - none of them talk about him! And they could have been.

4) They didn't explain who Theon was properly. Would have saved a lot of confusion for new viewers if they'd said something about him being a ward somewhere.

5) A couple of Bran's climbing shots looked a bit too fake. For the most part I was satisfied with the CGI, but Bran's climbing antics after spotting the King's arrival broke my suspension of disbelief.

6) Benjen's introduction felt too sudden and extraneous. Benjen suddenly appears out of the night and has a couple of nice scenes with Jon and Ned. But he comes in after we'd got through the "Introduction Phase" of the pilot. It felt jarring to be introduced to another character this late in the episode without some kind of establishing statement/shot. They could have either (a) dropped some dialogue to the effect of "Your uncle Benjen should be coming down from the wall for this." or (B) shown him in Castle Black before the rangers go through the wall in the prologue scene. Then, the character would have had his introduction and it would have fitted to have him show up when he did.

Anyway, enough of the gripes. On to things I liked:

1) Good locational continuity. I was expecting more jumps between locations, but I thought that the episode did a good job of spending a fair amount of contiguous time in Pentos, which helped introduce the location very well.

2) Managed to introduce a lot of the characters without too much infodumping. It's always difficult having to introduce a lot of characters at once, something compounded by the fact that the setting is somewhat alien as well. But in a lot of circumstances the actors did a great job of selling their characters and relationships without too much dialogue. We see Cat's longing to have a highborn lady of similar stature to talk to in the way that she tries to be welcoming to Cersei, and Cersei's coldness in the way she ignores her. We see Arya's michievousness, Joffrey's smugness, Daenarys' innocence and lack of control through similar techniques, and come to think of it, Ned doesn't really say all that much either, despite being in a lot of conversations. The fact that the acting performances are good enough to pull this off saves a lot of time that otherwise would have been spent tediously explaining things.

There are a lot fewer likes than dislikes, but that's because I was already spoiled on many of the potential likes already - I knew the locations were going to be individual and interesting, I knew the credit sequence was going to be a bit different, I knew the plot so the twist at the end didn't have any shock value. Hopefully subsequent episodes will be more balanced.

ST