[Book Spoilers] EP102 Discussion

[Lady Nerevar]

Anyone catch how Cersei described her dead baby as "a bird without feathers"? Probably not intended that way, but I thought it was a nice reference of sorts to the 3 eyed crow and Bran not being able to fly (not having feathers).

[Tyrion Lannister]

I can't remember if this was dialogue from the book, but the Jaime/Tyrion scene where Jaime is talking about cripples is somewhat foreshadowing.

Yeah, I snickered when he said that. My friend gave me a funny look, but I wasn't about to explain it to him.

[ingsve]

I know that is how the actors were saying it but I thought it was going to be dubbed over, it certainly was when Robert asked Arya's name in the first episode. And the second problem was the Catelyn/Cersei scene. Not because they are setting Cersei up to be sympathetic, because I think they definitely made her unlikeable when she insisted on Lady's execution, but because of the whole "fever took my first son" thing. Unless Cersei was lying to Catelyn, but she didn't seem like it. We all know *checks to see that this is the book spoiler thread* that Cersei was supposed to kill the actual children of Robert's. So I'm not sure how this fits in.

I think the main reason for that scene is to mention that the kid that died looked just like Robert to set up for the future that Joff and the other kids don't look like Robert at all.

[DragonAge93]

Wow. So much emotion in this week's episode. I, literally, was almost crying at the Ned/Jon farewell. Sean Bean is such an amazing actor, and I'll piss on the Emmys if he doesn't get nominated and win Best Actor in a Drama show. The saddest part was how he said "when we see each other again", which, as all us book-readers know, will never happen. I wanted to cry because I hate Ned dying, he's my favorite in the whole series, and knowing that he won't be able to tell Jon about his mother is just too sad.

And Summer attacking the assassin scene was pure epic. How Summer ripped his throat out, just how I imagined it when I read the book. Kinda gruesome, but makes the show all the more realistic. And the ending.... Now, I may be a guy, but I DID cry. Just how painful it looked for Ned to do it.... And the yelp....

Next week can't come quicker. Although I do hate how it's on Sundays, because Sundays are the days I usually dread, due to that "tomorrow's Monday" feeling. But now they are the days I look forward to the most. I guess ASoIaF has the power to cure sad Sunday feelings.

[Bronn Stone]

Some stuff was a little different than I expected but I thought the stuff with Joffrey was SPOT ON. I absolutely 100% buy Jack Gleeson as Joffrey, I wasn't 100% sure in episode 1 but I totally retract any questions there. Exactly as I pictured him in the books.

Jack is too short. But that is a quibble of the least sort and he is otherwise spot on. It does seem weird to me that Joffrey is shorter than Sansa. Especially since his being taller than Robb was a sticking point for Robb in AGOT.

I don't agree that GRRM set Sansa up to be hated. He set her up to be a 'typical' teen-aged girl. The kind that would like Britney or Miley or Bieber or somesuch if she were alive today. But she also has her virtues - her social graces, her Ran-esque knowledge of Westerosi Heraldry.

I mean, it seems innocent enough for dramatic purposes right now, but consider this show from the perspective of a new viewer, who never read the books. Here we get a Dire Wolf whom has some connection to the Stark children dies, and just as this happens, one of the Stark children on the edge of death wakes up.

Now, fast-forward to the season finale, where a major theme is a life to pay for a life, and it's not too hard to imagine new viewers looking back on this and thinking that Lady dying is what brought Bran back, and possibly even extrapolating it to there being some sort of blood magic going on among the Starks/Wolves, while in the book this connection really doesn't exist.

Bran DID become sensitive to the other wolves in the books. At one point he finds Ghost and sees through his eyes. He and Rickon know Ned is dead, mostly because Nymeria knows through Arya.

I didn't make the 'life for a life' connection. It is a nice catch (though unintended by the Producers), but I'd be surprised if even 100 fans who don't read this will do so as well.

[KyleLitke]

Jack is too short. But that is a quibble of the least sort and he is otherwise spot on. It does seem weird to me that Joffrey is shorter than Sansa. Especially since his being taller than Robb was a sticking point for Robb in AGOT.

I don't agree that GRRM set Sansa up to be hated. He set her up to be a 'typical' teen-aged girl. The kind that would like Britney or Miley or Bieber or somesuch if she were alive today. But she also has her virtues - her social graces, her Ran-esque knowledge of Westerosi Heraldry.

Yeah, I thought I was making that same point re: Sansa. My apologies if I didn't get it across well.

And yes, he's short, but other than that I think he nailed Joffrey. So I'm fine with a height difference. It doesn't actually matter for anything anyway.

[FlipFantastic]

Yeah, I snickered when he said that. My friend gave me a funny look, but I wasn't about to explain it to him.

Yes! I loved this little line, excellent foreshadowing. I dug up my old password to log in and make this point, and am glad someone else noticed it.

[The Sand Snake]

I thought the show tonight was even better than last week. It went so fast, but I still felt like they got most of the important stuff in there for people who havent read the books

What I liked

1. When Summer saved bran. That scene was the most epic scene of the two shows so far. It was awesome.

2. How the wall looked from the south

3. The fight with the kids. Theyve all been really good so far

4. The hounds line. "He ran. Not fast enough." It was perfect

What I didnt like

1. CSI winterfell was lame.. the hair was blonde so it had to be the Lannisters?

2. Cersei making up her kid. Never happened in the books. Nothing even close happened. I think it will confuse people in the future. That was the only thing that resally annoyed me.

Other than that, cant wait for next sunday

[Seerow]

Bran DID become sensitive to the other wolves in the books. At one point he finds Ghost and sees through his eyes. He and Rickon know Ned is dead, mostly because Nymeria knows through Arya.

I didn't make the 'life for a life' connection. It is a nice catch (though unintended by the Producers), but I'd be surprised if even 100 fans who don't read this will do so as well.

I know Bran became sensitive to the other wolves, that's the whole warging thing, I was more referring to the blood magic aspect of it.

Maybe you're right and most people won't make that connection. But I'm trying to think from the perspective of someone who has never read the books, and from that perspective we see: A wolf dies, a boy wakes up. Later on we see a witch, a mindless guy, and a baby die, and 3 dragons wake up. It's a pretty big parallel, and while it's unintended, I don't think it's a stretch to say someone just watching the show wouldn't draw it.

On the other hand, the real question is how many people watching the show have the obsessive type of personality that leads them to analyze things like that, and either haven't read the books before, or are restraining themselves from reading the books for spoilers? I doubt there's many, but they may exist.

[BLU-RAY]

I don't know if I can watch this series, though. it is PAINFUL seeing these people and knowing what is in store for their characters. :bawl:

Exactly this, again. Last 10 minutes were brutal.

[Lord Godric]

What I didnt like

1. CSI winterfell was lame.. the hair was blonde so it had to be the Lannisters?

Well the tower was supposed to be deserted, so finding any hair along with the clearing the dirt was suspicious. And as Catelyn said they already had means to question the Lannister's loyalty to Robert. Along with the fact that it was no accident an assassin was sent to Bran's room with a Valyrian steel dagger. I think just putting 2+2+2 together clicked for her.

[Dragonfish]

I really enjoyed this episode. Felt much less packed to the brim than the first one, and like others said it was so nice to hear so many lines of dialogue taken directly from the book.

One thing I didn't really like, though, was Cersei's scene with Catelyn. I get why they included it. It establishes the Robert/black hair connection, among other reasons. But what I don't like is that it doesn't make any sense at all that Cersei would make a point of mentioning how black the child's hair was and how much he looked like Robert. I mean, why would she risk drawing attention to the fact that her current children don't look a thing like Robert?

[The Sand Snake]

Well the tower was supposed to be deserted, so finding any hair along with the clearing the dirt was suspicious. And as Catelyn said they already had means to question the Lannister's loyalty to Robert. Along with the fact that it was no accident an assassin was sent to Bran's room with a Valyrian steel dagger. I think just putting 2+2+2 together clicked for her.

Ehh I guess. I still don't see it. I didn't like the fact that they had her find a blonde hair. Wasn't really needed, espeically since it was Cerseis hair. I doubt she'd think Cersei threw him from a window

[Wolfheart]

the Baratheon banners are on better display in this episode.

Yeah you would have thought that the Baratheon banners would have been predominant in the Arrival scene. We see FAR more Lannister and Stark. I didnt see any Baratheon banners as the king entered Winterfell.

[A Song of Hound and Wolves]

In interviews GRRM has explicitly told D&D how the series will turn out (in very broad strokes). Partly this is in case something ever happens to GRRM, but mostly it's because there are things that have to be shown on screen (the scenes are you mention above are excellent examples) that require the producers to know where the series is heading.

I didn't know that, and am greatly relieved to learn it. I seem to remember GRRM stating some time ago, that should he die before ASoIaF ends (God forbid), all his notes and unfinished work would be destroyed, and frankly, I lay in bed at night worrying I'll never know if my guesses were correct, my hopes fulfilled, my patience rewarded. :uhoh:

Sometimes I feel like little Fred Savage:

Kid: Grandpa! Grandpa! Wait, wait. What did Fezzik mean, 'He's dead.' I mean, he didn't mean 'dead'? Westley is only faking, right?

Grandfather: Do you want me to read this or not?

Kid: Who gets Humperdinck!

Grandfather: I don't understand?

Kid: [annoyed] Who kills Prince Humperdinck? At the end, someone's got to do it! Is it Inigo? Who?!

Grandfather: Nobody. Nobody kills him. He lives.

Kid: You mean he wins? Jesus, Grandpa! What did you read me this thing for?

Only insert any bearer of bad newsfor "Fezzik", "Ned/Robb/Grey Wind/Catelyn/Sandor/Brienne/Davos/etc" for "Westley", , "Cersei/Bolton/Gregor/House Greyjoy/House Frey/Littlefinger" for "Prince Humperdinck" and "Arya/Jon/Jaime/Tyrion/Nymeria etc" for "Inigo". Obviously, "Grandpa" is GRRM. ;)

[Jaimelan]

Hell yeah. They certainly are horrible creatures. I am glad that is coming across very very clear.

I totally agree, Sansa sealed her fate right then and there, but there is some excuse for Sansa, regardless of what the TV show says, she is 11 and badly taught by Starksbane, they both believe in knights and songs and all that.. There is no excuse for Starksbane.

I hated the fact that they took "it should have been you" out.

[ingsve]

For those that know their 90s wrestling. Joffrey really reminds me of Lord Steven Regal from WCW in 1993-94.

[Faint]

I'm really happy Lena Headey has gone for understated deviousness and hasn't slipped into shrieking queen mode. Maybe Cersei gets there eventually but certainly not before Jaime is captured.

[ZombieWife]

I watched with my friend, who has never read the books, and Lady's death definitely made an impact on him. Probably more than Bran's tumble.

My husband hasn't read the books and he was really mad at what happened to Lady. He said, "the queen was evil, the king was stupid and that girl (Sansa) made her own bed. It sucks the wolf had to die!"

He is glad Nymeria got away, though, and he was able to differentiate through dialogue and such the two.

So far, his favorite characters are Bran and Ned and Jon Snow.

[ZombieWife]

Anyone catch how Cersei described her dead baby as "a bird without feathers"? Probably not intended that way, but I thought it was a nice reference of sorts to the 3 eyed crow and Bran not being able to fly (not having feathers).

I was so creeped out by that scene. I kept thinking, "She killed her own baby!" I had no sympathy for her at all. She was so cold and unfeeling, imho (and well-acted).