ENikolai Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I highlighted the part that seemed completely contrary to everything we know about Jon Snow.1.) I don't think that's unbelievable, just the part I highlighted.2.) It's pretty widespread on this forum (not that I've seen an actual poll), but that isn't representative of all readers or Mr. Martin. Even if he is the bastard son of Rhaegar instead of Ned Stark, he was brought up by Ned Stark in Winterfell, always hurt by being a bastard. He was offered legitimacy and the position of Lord of Winterfell, which has far more personal meaning to him than the Iron Throne. He struggled for a bit, but ultimately refused, to be a man of the Night's Watch, holding his vows to be sacred, pledging not to break them again. Now he is Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Possibly being told that he's a long-dead prince's son instead of the father he always knew likely won't change all of that; he likely wouldn't even change his name to Jon Waters. What's fundamentally wrong with this is that it goes completely against his character; it was a defining moment that he turned down what he had always wanted (to be Ned Stark's legitimate son) and Winterfell which he always thought he could never have and had loved as his home for his duty as a man of the Night's Watch. Compared to all of that, being told he's the son of some guy he was always told raped his aunt (apparently mother now) won't do much to radically shift his priorities and throw the Iron Throne above both Winterfell and his post as Lord Commander. It just seems ridiculous.Catelyn killing him, however, seems more possible.Fair enough, I see what you're saying. Jon's circumstances might radically change, though. If the Wall falls and the Others are defeated in the final book, and there is some form of reconciliation with the wildlings, there might not even be a Night's Watch any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asarlai Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Fair enough, I see what you're saying. Jon's circumstances might radically change, though. If the Wall falls and the Others are defeated in the final book, there might not even be a Night's Watch any longer.Eh; the risk of that would be too great. They were defeated last time, and no one knows how sure they were of a final defeat, yet the Night's Watch stood for 8000 years, and now the Others came again. Plus, if there is a "Great Other," godslaying can be hard. Anyway, the Night's Watch has been quite useful even without the Others. But maybe it would be disbanded, if they were certain somehow and reconciled with the Wildlings.New Crackpot Theory:The Iron Throne is a misnomer; it's really the Valyrian Steel Throne. The story about the Targ-enemies' swords is a lie. Iron won't remain that sharp for 300 years, so it's the explanation for why the throne can still cut modern kings and displays no signs of rust. The Valyrian Steel Throne will be instrumental in defeating the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 New Crackpot Theory:The Iron Throne is a misnomer; it's really the Valyrian Steel Throne. The story about the Targ-enemies' swords is a lie. Iron won't remain that sharp for 300 years, so it's the explanation for why the throne can still cut modern kings and displays no signs of rust. The Valyrian Steel Throne will be instrumental in defeating the Others.Or, perhaps, the dragonfire had an effect on the steel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asarlai Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Or, perhaps, the dragonfire had an effect on the steel...And turned it into Valyrian Steel? Or "dragonsteel" as it were? So I will slightly alter the theory.The Iron Throne is a misnomer; it's really the Valyrian Steel Throne. Either the story about the Targ-enemies' swords is a lie, or the dragonfire turned the swords into "dragonsteel." Iron won't remain that sharp for 300 years, so it's the explanation for why the throne can still cut modern kings and displays no signs of rust.The Valyrian Steel Throne will be instrumental in defeating the Others.Forgot to reply to this earlier:Who is The Great Other?The Great Other is Death. Light is Life. The opposite is Death.Who worships Death?The Faceless Men of Braavos worship Death, calling Him The God of Many Faces.What is Braavos? Braavos is the historical hidden refuge of the oppressed and enslaved of Old Valyria. Who are the Faceless Men of Braavos?The Faceless Men of Braavos are the original rebels against the Dragon Lords of Valyria. The Faceless Men facilitated the Doom of Valyria. Why did the Faceless Men bring the Doom to Valyria?Valyria was a threat to their God, The Great Other, whose White Walkers (I like that name better than "Others") are vulnerable only to weapons from Valyria - dragonfire, dragonsteel, and dragonglass. To prepare for His eventual return from beyond the veil of Always Winter, The Great Other needed to destroy Valyria and it's weapons. He did this via his earthly servants and worshippers, the Faceless Men. Was Arya stark deliberately recruited by the Faceless Men of Braavos? Yes, she was recruited to become a catspaw of The Great Other. Why did The Great Other need Arya? He needed a catspaw that could eventually get close to and kill an otherwise well-protected potential danger, the powerful living son of the dragonlords, Jon Snow. Will Arya kill Jon Snow? No, in the end she will choose not to be the dark "no one". She will be Arya Stark of Winterfell.Why are the Faceless Men of Braavos trying to infiltrate the Citadel? The Citadel is a known enemy of magic and dragons. The Faceless Men of Braavos seek to steal its secrets and weapons to combat dragons, now controlled by Daenarys, a dangerous foe and great potential danger to The Great Other. All makes sense, doesn't it? :)Uh... Yes, actually, it kind of does. :stunned: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Isle of Faces Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Syrio never was Jaqen H'ghar, neither is the new Pate at the Citadel. Jaqen H'ghar never was Jaqen H'ghar and Hodor is actually a faceless man, making sure Bran will see through it to the end that the long winter never comes; therefore enabling The Faceless Men to continue for years to come.lol jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 And turned it into Valyrian Steel? Or "dragonsteel" as it were? So I will slightly alter the theory.Bingo!However, i'm pretty sure that iron/steel will stay sharp indefinitely if it's not used, or kept in a safe place. At least this is a common trope in fantasy. In HP:CoS, Harry didn't need to sharpen Godric Griffindor's sword right before killing the basilisk, and the shards of Narsil remained sharp for 1000s of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asarlai Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Bingo!However, i'm pretty sure that iron/steel will stay sharp indefinitely if it's not used, or kept in a safe place. At least this is a common trope in fantasy. In HP:CoS, Harry didn't need to sharpen Godric Griffindor's sword right before killing the basilisk, and the shards of Narsil remained sharp for 1000s of years.Well, are those other examples of magical weapons in very magical worlds? These are allegedly just regular swords, all melted together and stuck in a throne room. Look at what happened to the swords in the Tombs of Winterfell. Isn't the sword of the last King of the North all rusted away? That sword is roughly contemporary with the Iron Throne. Even the sword of Ned's grandfather that Hodor took is old and dull and spotted with rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatCatOberyn Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Well, are those other examples of magical weapons in very magical worlds? These are allegedly just regular swords, all melted together and stuck in a throne room. Look at what happened to the swords in the Tombs of Winterfell. Isn't the sword of the last King of the North all rusted away? That sword is roughly contemporary with the Iron Throne. Even the sword of Ned's grandfather that Hodor took is old and dull and spotted with rust.My guess would be that the throne is better maintained than a statue's sword in a dark, damp crypt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asarlai Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 My guess would be that the throne is better maintained than a statue's sword in a dark, damp crypt?Constant polishing and cleaning to prevent rust? Perhaps.Constant sharpening so it can keep cutting the king? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Well, are those other examples of magical weapons in very magical worlds?Westeros is just as magical as Hogwarts or Middle-EarthThe other swords have nothing magical about them besides their history. Well, they were forged by Dwarves, so maybe that counts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asarlai Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Westeros is just as magical as Hogwarts or Middle-EarthNot as overtly magical. Wizards aren't prancing about, the average person knows little of actual magic, and there's not much to suggest that the iron of Aegon's enemies was special.The other swords have nothing magical about them besides their history. Well, they were forged by Dwarves, so maybe that counts?Maybe the equivalent to special Valyrian steel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Not as overtly magical. Wizards aren't prancing about, the average person knows little of actual magic, and there's not much to suggest that the iron of Aegon's enemies was special.The Orcs/Uruks fought with regular swordsMaybe the equivalent to special Valyrian steel?I'll buy that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillWork4NinjaPowers Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Probably mentioned, but Syrio is alive and is a faceless man, sent by Stannis. He kills/becomes Trant, that's why it is never mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Constant sharpening so it can keep cutting the king? I doubt it.I now have this image of a conspiracy of royal throne polishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDubya Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 ok, here's one that I came up with to completely invert my normal expectations.Dany will eventually arrive on Westeros with her dragons and starts a massive war. The Others will break the wall and sweep down through the north. But, it will turn out that the Starks are the "inheritors" of the Others, and are able to rule them - Jon Snow takes control of the Others, and takes them south to defeat and kill Dany and her dragons. As a Stark-Targaryen, Jon is able to use the Horn of Euron's to take control of one of Dany's dragons, and with the help of (grown) Bran, Arya and Sansa, are able to destroy the Targaryens and force the south into submission. The Others populate the north, and the surviving humans populate the south.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Cat was Walder Frey in disguise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDubya Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Let's say you're the oldest brother and Lord of a minor house. Your younger brother is a knight of unparalleled ability, your younger sister is beautiful and kind and loving. She falls in love with a man from the north.And then this northman comes along and kills your younger brother. And tells your younger sister that he can't marry her, because he's already married someone else. So she leaps to her death from a tower.Ok, so here's the crackpot theory: A few years later, you name your first child (and the heir to your house) after the man who killed your brother, and drove your sister to suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I didn't know that there was an Eddard Dayne, my mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daena the Defiant Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I didn't know that there was an Eddard Dayne, my mistake.People sometimes assume that Edric Dayne, who goes by Ned, was named for Eddard Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen M Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 People sometimes assume that Edric Dayne, who goes by Ned, was named for Eddard Stark.I know, was just pointing out the names were slightly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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