Logen Ninefingers aka The Bloody Nine

[bw-]

Not dead! You can't kill an idea, mannnnn!

[Gertrude]

I'm on the side of possession. It just fits too neatly in my mind with his spirit ability and I think I might be disappointed if it's spelled out that the Bloody Nine isn't a spirit. I don't need a confirmation that it is, just don't want a confirmation that it isn't.

[The Pita]

Actually, I'm having a bit of trouble reconciling the timeline between the books.

I recall it being said in Best Served Cold that it was five years since Jezal ascended to the throne, AKA close to the end of Last Argument of Kings. Cosca says that it was ten years since he lost the Thousand Swords to Murcatto's treachery. But in The First Law, he clearly still has The Thousand Swords, and he hasn't yet become as completely useless as Best Served Cold implies. The Heroes confuses this timeline even more by having it being four years between the book and the events in Sipani from BSC, but eight years between the book and the last time Logen was seen. It's not entirely irreconcilable, but it's problematic.

On topic: I'm 99% sure it's got something to do with Logen's spirit talking. Whether it's an unhappy side effect or a spirit possessing him, I dunno.

ETA- I'm a dumb fuck. apologies to those who were confused.

[TheDanish]

Actually, I'm having a bit of trouble reconciling the timeline between the books.

I recall it being said in Best Served Cold that it was five years since Jezal ascended to the throne, AKA close to the end of Last Argument of Kings. Cosca says that it was ten years since he lost the Thousand Swords to Murcatto's treachery. But in The First Law, he clearly still has The First Law, and he hasn't yet become as completely useless as Best Served Cold implies. The Heroes confuses this timeline even more by having it being four years between the book and the events in Sipani from BSC, but eight years between the book and the last time Logen was seen. It's not entirely irreconcilable, but it's problematic.

On topic: I'm 99% sure it's got something to do with Logen's spirit talking. Whether it's an unhappy side effect or a spirit possessing him, I dunno.

I think it's stated in Heroes that it's been eight or nine years since the Contest Jezal won. Let's say 9. That gives a year between the Contest and the end of the series (when Logen goes missing), which is correct. Then four years between TFL and BSC, which also sounds right. Then four years between BSC and Heroes, right again.

But in The First Law, he clearly still has The First Law, and he hasn't yet become as completely useless as Best Served Cold implies.

Did you mean "he clearly still has the Thousand Swords"? I don't think he does. That's why he's in Dagoska: Murcatto took everything from him.

EDIT: expanded

[craBebe]

I was under the impression that less time had elapsed between The Last Argument of Kings and Best Served Cold. I don't think it ever gave a specific timeline but I thought that after Shivers decided not to kill the Bloody-Nine he basically set off for Styria to start over. If that's the case then 4 years seems like a pretty long time for him to go from being in the north to stepping off that boat.

And I do know that Best Served Cold takes place over the course of 1 year, basically from Monza's betrayal to her being crowned pretty much a year had passed, plus some change before she starts to show being pregnant and basically telling Bayaz to piss off. So that'd be like a year and a couple months mixed in there after the events of the third book and before the fifth.

[Selmy]

I seriously doubt he's dead.

I always just thought Logen was a berserker, or like a super-berserker. I never really considered the possibility that there could be a supernatural connection with the spirits, but I suppose it's possible. Interesting theory at least.

I remember reading some thing that there was some ancient viking berserker that held a little bridge alone against a much larger force and killed like 70 guys before he was ultimately killed. That's how I always pictured Logen, crazy, but still just a man.

[Knight Of The North]

Bit of thread Necromancy here, but I thought I'd stick my oar in;

I have two opinions on this. The first is that there's a pretty big chance that yep; The Bloody Nine is dead and gone. Surviving a fall off a cliff is pretty damn unlikely once, near enough to impossible twice. And also, it just seems like Abercrombie's style; maybe he did survive the fall, but got knifed by a passing fisherman who took his boots as he was recovering on the riverbank. That sort of unheroic, but realistic, pain seems to fit in with the man's writing style.

On the other hand...Come on, it's Logen Ninefingers. His next novel is called 'RED Country'. What colour did you associate with Logen, besides shit-brown, than red? He's covered in it through most of the novel. It's horrifically unprecise, but I just don't think Joe would miss the opportunity to drop that hint. I've actually e-mailed Joe on this (if there's one thing that actually convinces me he's a decent guy, is that he replies to the fainmail of a teenaged reader), and he avoids the subject. Always. So it's either he's alive, or his death is going to be a big reveal, or he was just fucking with me.

I remember reading some thing that there was some ancient viking berserker that held a little bridge alone against a much larger force and killed like 70 guys before he was ultimately killed. That's how I always pictured Logen, crazy, but still just a man.

That would be the Battle of Stamford Bridge credited by some as the end of the Viking Era. The Saxons floated a barrel downstream and stabbed him in the genitals, because they simply couldn't kill him head on.

[Patchface12]

He reminds me of Cuchulainn.

I think he's possessed by something (allowing him to talk to spirits) but it could just be an adrenaline rush/alter ego.

[Patchface12]

I seriously doubt he's dead.

I always just thought Logen was a berserker, or like a super-berserker. I never really considered the possibility that there could be a supernatural connection with the spirits, but I suppose it's possible. Interesting theory at least.

I remember reading some thing that there was some ancient viking berserker that held a little bridge alone against a much larger force and killed like 70 guys before he was ultimately killed. That's how I always pictured Logen, crazy, but still just a man.

That viking sounds like Hurin at Nirnaeth Arnoediad.

[The Pita]

I don't think he does. That's why he's in Dagoska: Murcatto took everything from him.

He mentions "That Mercatto bitch" (either a misspelling in my e-book version, a mistake by Joe, or Cosca is unlucky enough to be betrayed by two women with an almost identical name), but he still has a sellsword company numbering a thousand, which is called the Thousand Swords. I think it's called the Thousand Swords.

[Trebla]

I'm doing a re-read right now and while I don't think he's dead I almost wish he was. It's not that I dislike the character, very far from it in fact. I think he's a wonderful character but damn has he suffered. He belongs with Frodo and Roland Deschain in the Grey Havens.

I do also agree he becomes possessed . "Does the devil know he is a devil?" Good call on the Bloody Nine leaving during the Battle of Adua. I had forgotten that.

I think he's hiding in the North somewhere trying to do what he advised Luthar to do: find a piece of land and grow things. But the theme of the series that you can't change means he'll fail somehow, probably with death and war coming to him.

[shabot shabazz]

One interesting point is what Logan shared at the fire with the group around the fire in the old world. He said he spent one whole winter as the bloody nine more often than not. That's a long time to be simple rage. The caves and shadows and laughing with him also points at least to mental illness, if not possession. But again, that whole winter is a long time to be having a psychotic episode. Also, it usually happens to him when he's desperate, but that one time with Ferro in the tunnels under the old senate meeting builkding, he went into an episode from anger. All he could smell was shanka, and he was thinking of everything they'd taken from him. As far as his personality besides the killer: he seems decent. Thoughtful, smart, compassionate, and even cowardly. He isn't a coward. He fought some skirmishes without running or hiding. But he does have cowardly moments. That's realistic, and interesting. I don't think he's dead... He has a habit, appearently, of running. Like at the beginning and end of the series.

[memmorio]

I really hope he isn't dead. A big fan of his character. I understand the brilliance behind an author killing off a good character. (We have all read at least A Game of Thrones). This is a case where he has created a great character that has plenty of life left in it. I love his writing and want him to keep it up. For me that will require him to bring back Logen at some point. The conflict in that character is just so brilliant.

[Ross Malyon]

My gut feeling was he had something from the other side in him.

Its why he was given the box for the seed and why he turns into a killer when in danger.

I like an author that does not do the obvious but for me the end of the book really just set the scene for the 2nd Law Trilogy (assuming there is one)

I'd like it to be 3-5 years after 1st law and go back and see how everyone is getting on. I know Joe does not want to make people tired of his characters but this isnt Raymond E Fiest using Pug for the 18th book in a row. This is the bloody nine, one guy who played a part in 3 books..

I for one hope the 2nd Law Trilogy starts off with an ugly wet guy muttering, still alive.... still alive. But then i am a romantic and i hope JoeA does not just be gritty for the sake of it, im not asking for B9 and Ferro to fall in love and have a demon/beserker kid who goes on a mighty quest to save the world. But i do want more of the same, Glokta, jez, B9, Dogman, Dow, Shivers etc

[red snow]

You probably need to check some of the updates on Joe's blog and the "red country" threads on this board. There are a lot of answers for your speculations to be found. For example the next trilogy is set around 18 years after the end of Last argument and Joe's current plan is not to have any of the cast from the original trilogy as main parts and wants them (the ones still alive or involved in events) to be on the sidelines as the "establishment".

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Yeah, also (Logen spoilers in case you don't want to know):

...is confirmed as a character in Red Country, living in the Old Empire.

[11th Heaven]

Yeah, also (Logen spoilers in case you don't want to know):

...is confirmed as a character in Red Country, living in the Old Empire.

Yeah,

I'm not sure how I feel about that. At the same time I'm excited (who wouldn't be?) yet a little apprehensive. I thought he had excellent closure in LAOK, with just the right amount of ambiguity over his eventual fate. I'd rather have him exit the series as an awesome character than have him hang around to become old and stale. Kind of how I feel about Sandor Clegane - he was a fun character, but he's served his purpose and has had appropriate closure.

[Ninefingers]

I think Logen is alive, but that we've seen the last of the bloody nine.

[Honey Badger]

Just a fair warning that Joe Abercrombie has spoilers on his site. So just google for the release date of the next book and don't dig further.

[red snow]

I think Logen is alive, but that we've seen the last of the bloody nine.

I'd agree. B9 may be living in Shivers now - although it was hard to see whether that was the case in "the heroes" as we never had a POV. It didn't seem like he ever got into a blood rage, although his actions at the end of the book were a little reminiscnet of what Logen did when he was working for Bethod.