Raksha the Demon Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I think I also remember Hereward nominating Marc in each of the "Best Hero", "Best Villain" and "Best Antihero" threads. I think he does take on the role of Hero, Villain and Anti-hero at various points in the two series. The rebels in the second trilogy do have arguably a worthy cause despite some of their methods, so I wouldn't say they were simplistic villains, even though some of their actions are enough to make them the villains of the story. Admittedly, many of the negative aspects of the rebellion are largely Marc's fault. It's been a long time since I read them, but I did like May's series a lot. It isn't without a few flaws (I'm not a big fan of the ending of the last book) but at its best it was great and it did have a lot of memorable characters, including Marc Remillard and Aiken Drum who were mentioned earlier in the thread. I like the ambition of the series, May doesn't do thing by half measures in terms of concepts, managing to combine time travel to 2 million years BC, space opera, first contact with aliens, seven different alien races, a complex system of psychic powers, Celtic epic fantasy and the struggles involved in running a second-hand bookshop into one story. There are two linked series. The first features characters from the early 22nd century time travelling back to the Pliocene Era. The second group of four books cover the time period from the "present day" (since it was written in the mid-80s it almost works as alternate history now, since the first book didn't anticipate the Soviet Union was going to fall about a third of the way through the book's timeline) to the late 21st Century and are both a prequel and sequel to the other series. First book to read is The Many Coloured Land followed by The Golden Torc, The Nonborn King and The Adversary. Marc doesn't appear until the third book, incidentally.I absolutely adore Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile; it is one of my all-time favorite science fiction series. Complex, cast of hundreds, mixing several genres, including romance and adventure, etc. I did like the ending of The Adversary...Aiken Drum, a scrappy young trickster-hero type, and Marc Remillard, the handsome and charming and deadly psionic Rebel, are my favorite characters, but there are a lot of other characters I liked. Aiken, who is the title character of the third book (The Nonborn King) and Marc (title character of the fourth and last book, The Adversary) are definitely anti-heroes; especially Aiken. Aiken is such a smart, mischievous kid, that you can't help rooting for him; but he does have a dark streak. Marc is a very complex fellow, a disciple of both darkness and light, metaphorically speaking; someone who has done terrible things in the past and might want to do other terrible things in the present. Of course, in the Saga of Pliocene Exile, time travel is involved, so Marc's past is in Earth's future, and his present is in the Pliocene epoch...There's a prequel series that Julian May wrote after the Saga of Pliocene Exile - I can't remember all the titles, but it shows the rise of the Remillard family as they, and many other humans, gain psionic powers in the 20th and 21st family, seen from the point of view of Marc's great-uncle Rogi (actually the uncle of Marc Remillard's grandfather Denis), who is a charming narrator. Aliens come in and eventually Earth joins the "Galactic Milieu", a confederation of civilised worlds, most of whom have psychic powers - an event which has already happened before the Saga of Pliocene Exile begins. Marc will eventually rebel against the Milieu's restrictions; and is opposed by his psychic powerhouse brother Jack and Jack's wife 'Diamond Mask'; eventually, he and his cohorts flee via time-travel into the Pliocene, where we meet him in The Nonborn King...I wouldn't want to say any more; but anyone who enjoys space opera, psionic power dramas, action, romance, interesting characters, Celtic myth, peppered with humor and also some darkness, should read the Saga of Pliocene Exile. Note - I thought the series took off after the first book, but that might have been because the second book (The Golden Torc) was the first one I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The Frost Giant's Daughter is pretty much attempted rape. I;ve heard this said multiple times, and I think it's been brought up on the board, but I completely disagree. I'm actually bothered enough by this when it comes up I'm going to reread the story TONIGHT, but I'm pretty sure there is no attempted rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I absolutely adore Julian May's Saga of Pliocene Exile; it is one of my all-time favorite science fiction series. Complex, cast of hundreds, mixing several genres, including romance and adventure, etc. I did like the ending of The Adversary...Note - I thought the series took off after the first book, but that might have been because the second book (The Golden Torc) was the first one I read.Incidentally, when I said I didn't like the ending I was thinking of the final Galactic Milieu book, not The Adversary which had a better ending. I read The Golden Torc first as well, since it was the only book in the series in my school's library. It was a bit confusing at first due to beginning in the middle of the story. The Many Coloured Land is a bit slow to begin with, there's a lot of set-up introducing all the characters. Would Felise count? Poor Culuket.I'd say Felise is a villain rather than an anti-hero, albeit one we can be a bit sympathetic towards since she is clearly insane and had a horrific upbringing. Culuket on the other hand doesn't deserve any sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Culuket on the other hand doesn't deserve any sympathy.Now you've made me sad. For reasons I don't think I want to investigate, Culluket has always been one of my favourites. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I know, I've always had a soft spot for Cull, too, and I have no reason why. It might be spending eternity stuck in Felise's mind.oh dear god. fine - he's not an antihero, but he was cool enough for me to research and remodel the myth for a wargame years later...Nukelavee the Flayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The Frost Giant's Daughter is pretty much attempted rape. No, it's not. It's about a frost maiden who taunts Conan with her beauty and sexuality then leads him towards her brothers so they can kill him. I don't know where attempted rape fits into this. I here this all the time about this sotry, and it makes me want to shake people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I'm sorry, but I have to ask the next logical question: Does it also make you want to see your enemies driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women?It does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Valkyrie Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 There's a prequel series that Julian May wrote after the Saga of Pliocene Exile - I can't remember all the titles, but it shows the rise of the Remillard family as they, and many other humans, gain psionic powers in the 20th and 21st family, seen from the point of view of Marc's great-uncle Rogi (actually the uncle of Marc Remillard's grandfather Denis), who is a charming narrator. Aliens come in and eventually Earth joins the "Galactic Milieu", a confederation of civilised worlds, most of whom have psychic powers - an event which has already happened before the Saga of Pliocene Exile begins. Marc will eventually rebel against the Milieu's restrictions; and is opposed by his psychic powerhouse brother Jack and Jack's wife 'Diamond Mask'; eventually, he and his cohorts flee via time-travel into the Pliocene, where we meet him in The Nonborn King...Formally, there's the Saga (four books), Intervention (which was published as two PBs, and May labels as a 'Vinculum', a connecting), and then the Trilogy. It does loop around on itself very ingeniously. I enjoyed going back and re-reading the opening of Many-Colored Land, which gives you the setup for why all these characters would want to flee into the past, after having seen how the Milieu got to where it was.I think of Aiken as more of the Trickster than a full-blown anti-hero, even with his dark side, but his story is very obviously (and understood by himself to be) that of the Fool growing up and learning to become King. As May matched a lot of characters to Wagner's Ring, he's Loge. Marc is both Wotan and Alberich all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 No, it's not. It's about a frost maiden who taunts Conan with her beauty and sexuality then leads him towards her brothers so they can kill him. I don't know where attempted rape fits into this. I here this all the time about this sotry, and it makes me want to shake people.Look, Conan was trying to grab her because of sheer, naked lust. More specifically, he was chasing after her in order to grab her and have sex with her, regardless of any choice of her's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Look, Conan was trying to grab her because of sheer, naked lust. More specifically, he was chasing after her in order to grab her and have sex with her, regardless of any choice of her's.Edit: Naw, this is a stupid argument I don't want to have. Let's just agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Mr Crane is an "android" from Neal Asher's Polity books...basically, an unstoppable killing machine/AI created by forcing the overlay of a psychotic serial killer over the mind already there.He's brutal, but, well, he's dissassociative, so fragments of teh original personality occasionly twist orders, allowing him to spare certain victims for Crane's own aggenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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