[ADwD Spoilers] Is Jon handsome?

[Whatever]

I don't think Jon's gaydar was off .. he did tell them to take the guy to his quarters and give him something to ease his grief ...I forget what.

yes, but IMO he didn't realize how much the guy was affected by the death of his friend?lover?whatever.

C'mon, he's Ned's son (oh, well). How could he possibily have a Gaydar in the first place?

(And there's also Satin, who lets the fire in Jon's room. I'm not saying he's hitting on him, it's more of a, ahem, subconscious thing)

Yeah I'm sure Satin would know. We need his POV! ASAP! Martin really needs to get on more primary gay characters' POV just to gauge how handsome the other male characters are. Yes, Martin, some of your readers are that shallow.

I subscribe.

Plus, I do love shallow threads, they are a plaesant distraction from stuff like "Who will die next?"

Hehe, why does everybody think that Satin's gay?

because he's named Satin?

(yes, i know, I'm shallow)

[Val the Wildling Princess]

He sure is handsome to me, not just handsome, his personality is what makes him hot as fuck (that and longclaw, ghost, leadership, the black...) B)

[ARYa_Nym]

Ned seems to have been of average height, his brother Brandon was said to have been tall. I don't remember that anyone mentioned Rhaegar's height. But he wouldn't be small, otherwise he wouldn't have been considered attractive. Height is a very important factor for attractiveness in men.

It depends on how tall Viserys is.

..."The fifth room, finally, shows a man very much alike her brother Viserys, except that he is taller"...

I don't think he was as tall as Robert who was 6'5 I think. Harry Lloyd is 6' I think so maybe he was like 6'2.

yes, but IMO he didn't realize how much the guy was affected by the death of his friend?lover?whatever.

C'mon, he's Ned's son (oh, well). How could he possibily have a Gaydar in the first place?

I bet Rhaegar was oblivious to Jon Connington's feelings.

[Whatever]

I bet Rhaegar was oblivious to Jon Connington's feelings.

You know that pleople's behavior is not a genetic thing and depends on the way they're raised, do you? I don't think any boy raised by Ned Stark would even think of the possibility :D

[ARYa_Nym]

You know that pleople's behavior is not a genetic thing and depends on the way they're raised, do you? I don't think any boy raised by Ned Stark would even think of the possibility :D

I do but gaydar has nothing to do with parenting imo. You either have it or you don't.

[Whatever]

I do but gaydar has nothing to do with parenting imo. You either have it or you don't.

how could you possible be sensible to the presence of gay people if you've lived your life in a contest where nobody is gay?

(Did I already said how muchI LOVE this thread?)

[ARYa_Nym]

how could you possible be sensible to the presence of gay people if you've lived your life in a contest where nobody is gay?

(Did I already said how muchI LOVE this thread?)

I'm sure there are gay men in the North. No matter where in Westeros though there's nobody/hardly anybody that is openly gay. They have to figure it out for themselves like people did with Renly/Loras.

[Whatever]

I'm sure there are gay men in the North. No matter where in Westeros though there's nobody/hardly anybody that is openly gay. They have to figure it out for themselves like people did with Renly/Loras.

I'm definitively sure there are, but I just can't see good, straight (no pun intended!) ol' Ned telling his 14-years-old children "hey, that man is gay. Just look at him, so you'll understand what I'm talking about". I'm quite sure nobody in WF was openly gay, not even in a Renly-Loras way.

Anyway, Jon's GD IS off. C'mon! He doesn't notice anything at all, and I'm quite sure there's plently of sexual activity going on at the wall!

[ARYa_Nym]

I'm definitively sure there are, but I just can't see good, straight (no pun intended!) ol' Ned telling his 14-years-old children "hey, that man is gay. Just look at him, so you'll understand what I'm talking about". I'm quite sure nobody in WF was openly gay, not even in a Renly-Loras way.

Anyway, Jon's GD IS off. C'mon! He doesn't notice anything at all, and I'm quite sure there's plently of sexual activity going on at the wall!

Ned is understandable although he did think it strange when he considered the possibility that Renly had fallen for a girl that looked like Lyanna. It might have been a play on words because GRRM actually used the word queer.

Jon said that as a bastard he notices things but not that apparently. He just seems to have no gaydar whatsoever. I think Sansa was the same with Loras.

[Whatever]

Jon said that as a bastard he notices things but not that apparently. He just seems to have no gaydar whatsoever.

Which is a shame. If he had one, he would understand that he and Stannis NEED to get a room as soon as possible ._.

[cancerman]

Hehe, why does everybody think that Satin's gay? I don't think there's any evidence to that. Yes, he had worked in a whorehouse, but I'm not convinced he liked it there. He certainly adapted rather fast to the harsh life at the wall.

Well, there's a strong wind blowing queerly in his direction. It never mentions his past life there, good or bad so you really can't say nor do we know how he was sent to the wall, so all we have is him being a pleasure boy for men. I say KUDOS to Jon for not minding Satin's past business.

We don't need gay characters to crush on the male characters. We could get girls. Unfortunately there's such a shortage of girls at the Wall. Mel isn't really interested in appearances, she's interested in power. Else how could she have got it on with Stannis? :D Still, even our POVs notice that Satin or that guy who went with Sam (Dareon?) are pretty which I am sure Jon is not. He seems to be too decisive and imposing to ever be described in such a way.

I beg to differ, gays are prime indicators of hotness. And yes Dareon, by the way did they ever cast that role in the HBO series? I don't recall, I know there was Pyp who was mentioned of being able to sing which I thought was to be Dareon's thing. Not to digress but I think he's a rather important character to show solely for just being killed by Arya, LOL.

yes, but IMO he didn't realize how much the guy was affected by the death of his friend?lover?whatever.

C'mon, he's Ned's son (oh, well). How could he possibily have a Gaydar in the first place?

(And there's also Satin, who lets the fire in Jon's room. I'm not saying he's hitting on him, it's more of a, ahem, subconscious thing)

I subscribe.

Plus, I do love shallow threads, they are a plaesant distraction from stuff like "Who will die next?"

because he's named Satin?

(yes, i know, I'm shallow)

Satin was a nickname given to him (wasn't it?), why he and the other men on the wall kept it is VERY telling. LOLOL!

[Gala]

The way Ygritte was acting I kept asking myself, "Does he really look that good to you?"

But based on the other Wildlings he probably was the most handsome guy that she's ever seen.

I guess he wasn't bad but Robb was preferred by the females.

Not necessarily, he was the best looking guy that she's ever seen. You know the saying: the woman always sees a real man. Real man here doesn't mean extremely handsome, but he possess certain characteristics, like his character, personality, his will, honour, inner power, intelligence... and I personally think he has those plenty. He seems very attractive to me. I also like the actor, but do imagine him differently.

He looks like a Stark (dark hair, cold grey eyes like ice, long face etc) even more than all Ned's children and Starks always were described attractive, if not by appearance, then by their characters, sometimes both - Lyanna, for example.

Jennavere

Christian Bale is a brilliant comparison! I love him too.

[dreamcatcher]

I do but gaydar has nothing to do with parenting imo. You either have it or you don't.

Haha, but it can be acquired, you have to know an openly gay person in order to improve your gaydar!

[The Kender]

This topic is just so cool. :cool4:

[Whatever]

This topic is just so cool. :cool4:

Let's call it The Shallowness Club ;)

Welcome, BTW!

[howsockgothappy]

wow guys. I must say I am kind of feeling very "WTF" at everyone's reactions to Kit's... curls? Just because he has curls that doesn't make him girly... he's fucking ripped COME ON (hair-cutting scene... shirtless... YOU THINK HE'S GIRLY?)

As to JON.... I sort of figure he must be like slightly-better-than-average-but-no-fox. Girls seem to like him well enough, but we don't really have the sort of annoying harping on how perfect he is that we get with Jaime and Loras. So, good-looking, certainly, but nothing to 'write home about' as it were.

And regarding the comments along the lines of "what is a long face? how could someone with a long face be sexy?"

I dunno his name, but... the guy who acts Benjen... look at him... there ya go.

And Satin? He worked at a whorehouse, he puts perfume in his beard, Selyse's men pretty much almost call him Jon's whore... Definitely gay. Definitely definitely gay.

[Whatever]

And Satin? He worked at a whorehouse, he puts perfume in his beard, Selyse's men pretty much almost call him Jon's whore... Definitely gay. Definitely definitely gay.

You just made me think of something HBO might do. You know, something like Sam&Bill, the water in Arkansas is hard and so on ;)

[Ghost Rider]

And Satin? He worked at a whorehouse, he puts perfume in his beard, Selyse's men pretty much almost call him Jon's whore... Definitely gay. Definitely definitely gay.

Is that so? Well the perfume in his beard (what? he has a beard?!? I must admit I missed that and I am surprised because boys working in a whorehouse would try to have smooth faces to appear very young) would make him metrosexual in our own world and certainly suspected of being gay. :) But these categories (heterosexual, homosexual) should not exist in Westeros the way the exist in our own society, if Martin really wants to be true to a "medieval feeling". Imo he failed in several regards, so this could be one glitch of his. The way such things are regarded have changed very much. E.g. a man was regarded as weak or soft if he was a womanizer, probably because he was seen as weak enough to let himself be seduced by women.

I wouldn't put too much trust in whatever Selyse's men say. They probably just want to slight Jon.

Anyway I still don't think there's evidence either way which could certainly be different if we had a POV more perceptive to such things.

@whatever: I hope not! I mean, Loras and Renly are canon and I'm fine with that, but Jon and Satin would be just for the hell of it! Even though Jon is attractive, yes in the exact way Gala described. :agree: Satin probably less so, even though he is repeatedly described as being pretty. (but ... I don't really dig the pretty boy type and that coupled with a beard :eek: )

And it's not really shallow, imho! Attractiveness has a very real effect on the reaction of other people. Whenever somebody says: only the inner values count - he is probably lying! At the very least I'd be very suspicious. Personal charms can make up for a lot, but it's way easier for attractive persons. Iirc, it was shown in research that beautiful people are more successful in their careers. Yes, we all knew it, but we often try to ignore it, because it's not pc. Beautiful people are not only beautiful, but they're also successful! They got it all! It's so not fair! But when has life ever been fair?

[dark sister]

Yeah, what did GRRM mean by "long face"?

Usually it means that the shape of the face is like a stretched-out oval. A good example of guys with long faces are Michael Bay (http://upload.moldova.org/movie/directors/michael_bay/thumbnails/tn2_michael_bay_4.jpg) and Adam Levine (http://haircutshairstyles.org/pics/2011/07/adam-levine-new-haircut-for-2011.jpg). Olivia Wilde is also a good example of a *woman* who has a long face (that's kind of how I picture Lyanna in my head): http://images.zap2it.com/images/celeb-310071/olivia-wilde-2.jpg

Lyanna and by extension Arya of course. The eye color/hair color even fit. It's also why Olivia Wilde wears bangs a lot, to make her face seem less long, although I think there's nothing wrong with it.

Addressing that tidbit, one thing I've always wondered: if Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon's father, and Ned had to raise him, what on Westeros would he have done if Jon grew up with silver-gold hair and purple eyes? It would be pretty conspicuous to be dying his hair all the time, and then when he comes into manhood, he would start getting silver-gold whiskers! (this happens to Egg in one of the D&E stories). Apparently in a SSM, Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys had the Martell look, while little Aegon looked like a Targaryen. To me that seems that there is about an equal genetic chance that he would look like a Stark or a Targ, although of course genetics are more complicated than that, and very often the child is almost a 50/50 mix of looks between mother and father (I know that I am). However, Jon has been described as having the grey eyes of the Starks, except "a very dark grey", and brown hair.

Another fact I found curious was Edric Storm, Lord of Starfall and companion to the BWB. When he's talking to Arya, she notes that he has purple eyes and ash-blonde hair (i.e. silver-gold). In addition, he and Jon had the same wet nurse, Wylla - the woman who Ned told Robert was Jon's mother, and whom Edric seemed to think was Jon's mum as well ("we're milk brothers"). What's up with that?! Why does EDRIC look like a Targ, and Jon a Stark? There's some mystery here that I can't quite unravel.

[Whatever]

Another fact I found curious was Edric Storm, Lord of Starfall and companion to the BWB. When he's talking to Arya, she notes that he has purple eyes and ash-blonde hair (i.e. silver-gold). In addition, he and Jon had the same wet nurse, Wylla - the woman who Ned told Robert was Jon's mother, and whom Edric seemed to think was Jon's mum as well ("we're milk brothers"). What's up with that?! Why does EDRIC look like a Targ, and Jon a Stark? There's some mystery here that I can't quite unravel.

Edric Storm is Robert's bastard. I think you mean Edric "Ned" Dayne :)

He's too young to be related to a Targ anyway.. I think he's 12 (13 by now)