[ADwD Spoilers] Is Jon handsome?

[Buckwheat]

“Har!” laughed Tormund Giantsbane. “Don’t bandy words with this one, Lord Snow, she’s too clever for the likes o’ you and me. Best steal her quick, before Toregg wakes up and takes her first.”

[...]

But that bridge had been burned a long time ago, and Jon himself had thrown the torch. “Toregg is welcome to her,” he announced. “I took a vow.”

“She won’t mind. Will you, girl?”

Val patted the long bone knife on her hip. “Lord Crow is welcome to steal into my bed any night he dares. Once he’s been gelded, keeping those vows will come much easier for him.”

And here I thought that threatening somebody to geld them if they misbehave was definitely not a sign of attraction. Apparently I was wrong, could somebody be as kind to explain what is the problem with my reasoning?

And yes, Jon was surely handsome. After all, he is the hero, we cannot have an ugly hero, now can we?

[Gogossos]

I think he's handsome, but not "could possibly hope to satisfy Dany" handsome.

I don't think Daario is handsome, yet she clearly thought Quentyn wasn't (confirmed by Barristan). I think she is attracted to that confident personality (and Quentyn was too sweet). So when she meets Jon, he will have a few things counting in his favour: Val (and Mel for what it's worth) fancy him, he is a Stark (meaning he is confident, natural leader but also compassionate), he is a Targ (meaning Dany won't feel guilty about straying from the family line), he will politically be expedient, he is of suffient high birth. Even though he is not as super handsome as, say, Jamie his whole package will be acceptable to Dany.

[LadyMary]

And here I thought that threatening somebody to geld them if they misbehave was definitely not a sign of attraction. Apparently I was wrong, could somebody be as kind to explain what is the problem with my reasoning?

And yes, Jon was surely handsome. After all, he is the hero, we cannot have an ugly hero, now can we?

I thought it was a cheeky response to Tormond's cheeky suggestion, and because Val knows Jon won't break his vow to sneak into her bed it's a idle "threat". Call it Wildling flirting.

I think it's clear that Jon is attractive to some women, but he's never described in the same glowing terms as Rhaegar, Jaime, Robb or even Joffrey in terms of conventional standards of male beauty. It may be that his bastard status makes him less "attractive" to some women as compared with Robb or other (presumed to be) trueborn men and I think he's probably like his sister/cousin Arya, a late bloomer.

[koftroy]

I imagine he looks like very much like the Starks in the crypts at Winterfell, and his father for that matter, since the descriptions of the three often overlap. Much is always made of their long-faces, although, unless I mistake myself, Jon's doesn't carry a beard. Melisandre and Sam, at least, never seem to mention one.

Having said that, given the general coolness of his character, he probably cuts a very severe figure. Grey, unblinking eyes, long face, dispassionate persona, dark hair. He's not very tall but quite thin. In other words, he's altogether non-descript, but if anything, he just looks like a typical Stark. I imagine he looks a lot like Arya -- same hair color, same eyes, also a long face, skinny, and so forth.

I think his charm to the wildlings is that they admire him in some weird way, because he may be a traitor, and crow, but he is smart, and he listened to Ygritte, and even calls her his teacher. I think he also looks very hard, he has a scar over his eye and cheek. He also is very cold, even Melisandre describes his eyes as "cold". He has long hair, he has no friends, he feels alone, and his main goal is to be ready for the Others. The further we go into his journey we see how conflicted he is, sad, lonely, realizing he is a warg, and a great leader.

He is definitely attracted to Val, and she to him, but he always says that he had that chance, but I think if he let himself, that is who he would end up with in the end.

He, like Dany, will not be who we had thought they would be in the beginning. I can see Jon with Val, but now as I read, Dany, will never make it to Westeros. She has singlehandedly plunged the east into war, and I think, she is really a khaleesi. The dragons? I don't know, but both she and Jon, are both outsiders, ie. he would end up w/Val, and she will end up w/a Khal. But that's for my blog....

I am a 100% R+L person. Arya is said to act and look like Lyanna, while Jon and Arya look more alike than w/their other siblings. Plus, when Ned describes holding Lyanna as she is dying in her blood, and she asks him 'to promise her", I will not let it go until GRRM says finally what the truth really is.

He has also been my favorite character, although Jaime grew on me and Arya, rocks. However, was surprised by Kit Harrington, as he is way more handsome than Jon is described in the books; he's a total babe. But he plays Jon so well, and I was surprised that they had chosen someone so good looking. However, as we know for the next two books, especially Storm, Jon is very prominent; almost the main character. So, I think choosing someone so good looking, was wise for those who perhaps are not crazy readers and fans, like us, or it was just happenstance that he plays Jon so well. For me, the test of his skill to play Jon, will be when he kills Q'horin, and goes with Ygritte.

Sorry to digress....

[Slurms McKenzie]

And Melisandre would sleep with Wyman Manderly if it helped her cause.

I can't see him being up for the job, truth be told.

[Fire Eater]

I can't see him being up for the job, truth be told.

I agree, plus with a guy like Manderly, she'd have to do all the work.

[kephv]

He has long hair, he has no friends, he feels alone, and his main goal is to be ready for the Others.

His own fault. He sent his friends away when he needed them most. But that's off topic...

[Ygritte Lady Snow]

And here I thought that threatening somebody to geld them if they misbehave was definitely not a sign of attraction. Apparently I was wrong, could somebody be as kind to explain what is the problem with my reasoning?

And yes, Jon was surely handsome. After all, he is the hero, we cannot have an ugly hero, now can we?

I see, but the thing is I'm not considering isolated lines to believe she's attracted to him. For example, she kissed his cheek before leaving to look for Tormund in the forrest, . Val is funny in ADWD. I think the haters will have a different view of this character when they read the book. I love their relationship. Jon is so protective over her and GRRM make us feel all the time that there's a feeling there, not just some sense of honor. He didn't want her to go. He couldn't bear the possibility of her getting married to one of the queen's men. Still he doesn't want to break his vows. I totally felt like he was going mad. So much pressure. Poor Jon :crying:

I'm not shipping Jon/Dany. I think many of the showviewers ended up with the idea that they'd stay together because of all the "ice and fire" theories. They represent extremes, but that doesn't mean they will meet, marry and have an heir (assuming Dany will surprise us all becoming fertile again with some spell).

I don't see that happening. Val is my favourite.

[Buckwheat]

I thought it was a cheeky response to Tormond's cheeky suggestion, and because Val knows Jon won't break his vow to sneak into her bed it's a idle "threat". Call it Wildling flirting.

I see, but the thing is I'm not considering isolated lines to believe she's attracted to him. For example, she kissed his cheek before leaving to look for Tormund in the forrest, . Val is funny in ADWD. I think the haters will have a different view of this character when they read the book. I love their relationship. Jon is so protective over her and GRRM make us feel all the time that there's a feeling there, not just some sense of honor. He didn't want her to go. He couldn't bear the possibility of her getting married to one of the queen's men. Still he doesn't want to break his vows. I totally felt like he was going mad. So much pressure. Poor Jon :crying:

Wildling flirting :)! I like that very much, LadyMary.

Honestly, I never felt any attraction between Jon and Val. He mentions a lot that she is a beauty, but nothing else. My first post was not meant that very seriously, I just could not understand why people read that part of text as a sign of any attraction.

I always imagined Jon to be more attractive than Robb, although in this thread Robb is usually described as more good-looking. We actually have no proof that Robb was attractive at all, he is always spoken of by Catelyn, who, being his mother, would think he is the prettiest boy in the world even if he were fat and pimply (which he was not). I recall her remarking on Robb's appearance twice: once she says that he had grown a beard which makes him look like Edmure, and once she says that he reminded her of Ned. Netiher Edmure nor Ned were particularly good-looking. Brandon says that Jon was taller and slimmer of the two, plus he had dark hair, so I would think of Jon being better-looking than Robb.

[Ygritte Lady Snow]

Robb is way more Tully than Stark. He looks like his mother and Catelyn is described as a beauty at her young age. Sansa is described like a beautiful girl too and they both are linked to Catelyn and the Tully looks.

The Starks have rustic looks and maybe that's why catelyn hates Jon so much: he resembles Ned and Robb doesn't.

It's a pity we don't have this little nuances on the show. I think they mean a lot in the story. ;)

[brashcandy]

Honestly, I never felt any attraction between Jon and Val. He mentions a lot that she is a beauty, but nothing else. My first post was not meant that very seriously, I just could not understand why people read that part of text as a sign of any attraction.

I agree. I think Jon is attracted to her in a very abstract sense. She is really beautiful, independent, self assured, etc etc. She represents the ideal woman that he could never hope to possess. This is the same way in which he thinks of Winterfell for example. Something he would have always liked to have, but never dared to think he could ever own it. When he realises that these things might actually be in his grasp, it's too late - he's already taken vows, is committed to the Watch, and it would mean in his mind some betrayal of the Starks.

Val never crosses the line in his mind I think from desirable fantasy to achievable reality even when Stannis offers him the opportunity to become legitimate and take a wife. Of course the events at the end of ADWD could change everything. I think that's the end for Jon and any sense of allegiance to the vows of the NW, but I expect romance to be the last thing on his mind when he awakens. This is even if Val will still be around given her terror of greyscale...

[Slurms McKenzie]

I agree, plus with a guy like Manderly, she'd have to do all the work.

Nobody likes a selfish lover.

[Ygritte Lady Snow]

I agree. I think Jon is attracted to her in a very abstract sense. She is really beautiful, independent, self assured, etc etc. She represents the ideal woman that he could never hope to possess. This is the same way in which he thinks of Winterfell for example. Something he would have always liked to have, but never dared to think he could ever own it. When he realises that these things might actually be in his grasp, it's too late - he's already taken vows, is committed to the Watch, and it would mean in his mind some betrayal of the Starks.

Val never crosses the line in his mind I think from desirable fantasy to achievable reality even when Stannis offers him the opportunity to become legitimate and take a wife. Of course the events at the end of ADWD could change everything. I think that's the end for Jon and any sense of allegiance to the vows of the NW, but I expect romance to be the last thing on his mind when he awakens. This is even if Val will still be around given her terror of greyscale...

It's difficult to say since we only get closer to Val in ADWD. Before that, she doesn't have any lines or character depth. We only know where she is and what she's doing for other character's points of view. In ADWD a lot more is revealed to us about her personality.

It seems like she'd welcome Jon but is not desperate to take him to bed. I like the little game they play. There's certainly some sexual tension between those two.

[Lady of Long Lake]

Robb is way more Tully than Stark. He looks like his mother and Catelyn is described as a beauty at her young age. Sansa is described like a beautiful girl too and they both are linked to Catelyn and the Tully looks.

The Starks have rustic looks and maybe that's why catelyn hates Jon so much: he resembles Ned and Robb doesn't.

It's a pity we don't have this little nuances on the show. I think they mean a lot in the story. ;)

I think you are right about their rustic looks. Sir Kevan describes Lyanna in the epilogue of ADWD as having a "wild kind of beauty" but Cersei's beauty was like the sun in the sky. It's kind of cool that Rhaegar the Prince and Robert the King both found Lyanna's earthy beauty preferable over Cersei's conventional beauty.

The "Stark look" with the dark hair and grey eyes are a beautiful combo. I love this picture of Benjen from the asoiaf wiki. This is how I imagine the Starks all looking with their angular faces, grey eyes and wild hair:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Benjen_by_quickreaver.jpg

[Nausicaä]

The "Stark look" with the dark hair and grey eyes are a beautiful combo. I love this picture of Benjen from the asoiaf wiki. This is how I imagine the Starks all looking with their angular faces, grey eyes and wild hair:

http://awoiaf.wester...quickreaver.jpg

Never seen it before, thank you for linking it! It's pretty cool, his face fits my mental images of the Starks too.

What's with all the onions, though? Is this artist hinting at some yet-unknown-to-the-readers connection between Benjen and Davos? ;)

[Gogossos]

I'm not shipping Jon/Dany.

Well, I ship Jon/Val and Jon/Dany both. Am I bad? What is wrong with me? ;)

[Ygritte Lady Snow]

Actually I ship Jon/put-any-female-character-here 'cause I want him to get laid. :D

[ghost the direwolf]

I always imagined Jon to be more attractive than Robb, although in this thread Robb is usually described as more good-looking. We actually have no proof that Robb was attractive at all, he is always spoken of by Catelyn, who, being his mother, would think he is the prettiest boy in the world even if he were fat and pimply (which he was not). I recall her remarking on Robb's appearance twice: once she says that he had grown a beard which makes him look like Edmure, and once she says that he reminded her of Ned. Netiher Edmure nor Ned were particularly good-looking. Brandon says that Jon was taller and slimmer of the two, plus he had dark hair, so I would think of Jon being better-looking than Robb.

:agree:

[hobbleit]

I'm not shipping Jon/Dany.

I hadn't even considered it. I didn't even know people did until about 2 weeks ago, lol.

[Gala]

I always thought that Tully and Lannisters are considered to be handsome and pretty because they are sweet and fair in appearance, glamourous if you wish, which is always appreciated in big cities, courts and capitals. Plus they are blonds and red haired, while Starks are dark haired. My point is they were never considered handsome and beautiful, because of their natural coldness in look, they were considered to be some kind of savages (remember everything that southerns say about North, even Catelyn), the North is a hard place, therefore, the people there do not bother glamour or sweetness. I remember as Dunk said Egg that everything differs in the North: there you get what you deserve, despite your class, status etc. But they can be handsome in a brutal hard way, even wild way, which I think is quite attractive. And probably that would be the thing that attack Dany in Jon (if they met and etc, which I am not sure of at all)